FERRITE facts and fiction discussed...MattR.UK

[MattR]

I partially include MONTE's post to try and illustrate why I posted my reply to it.

That reply should have been more explicite to be of any value.

I therefore have now tried to briefly, but consicely
insert my views at differing points in Monte's original post.

Perhaps the 'thinking' readers will consider my views on the matter.

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Tony, I used three (3) different pieces of ferrite and my X-Terra 70. ** LENGTHY **
Posted by: Monte <Send a PM> (IP Logged)
Posts: 592
Date: June 16, 10:09PM


and compared the ferrite balances and settings, and compared the ferrite Ground Balance in my area here in Western Oregon, and yesterday I made a 250 mile round trip (just got home this morning) to see what some Central Oregon ground conditions would do, using a "ferrite GB setting." (Oh, I also worked in a little old site hunting but naturally doing an evaluation to answer your problem was more important so I concentrated on it.)

I also used an X-Terra 50, but didn't have an X-Terra 30 handy. I am going to go to a Minelab Dealer friend's shop today or tomorrow to use his X-T 30 and confirm my suspicions, but here are some general comments about doing such a test, about factory pre-setting the GB, and reflections about my observations and suspicions.
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*
A Few

 

[bfodnes]

Matt.

Monte is just explaining and critcising manufacturers way of setting a ground balance point on their preset ground balance detectors.

Did you get that.

No one asked to compare real ground and ferrite samples, everyone knows it is two different things.

The inground performance of a preset GB detector will however be influenced by the worker that sat that preset GB at the manufacturing plant.

And not all ferrite is equal, I can answer that. Even if all ferrite is equal by the ounce you dont have any set amount of ferrite to use by any manufacturer. A bigger piece will set the GB otherwise then a smaller piece and that is what Monte addressed. He could not know that someone stepped in on such a post. It is obvious anyway.

Monte just addressed the different ferrite ( volume) samples that different manufacturers use on their assembly line to "try" to set a proper all round GB on their preset GB units. And he is right, the methods used dont assure that the preset GB on all detectors is equal and by no means proper for your ground.

bfodnes

 

[MattR]

NEW Re: FERRITE facts and fiction discussed...MattR.UK
Posted by: bfodnes <Send a PM> (IP Logged)
Posts: 30
Date: Today, 05:20PM


Matt.

Monte is just explaining and critcising manufacturers way of setting a ground balance point on their preset ground balance detectors.

Did you get that.

....................
My replies:-

Dear B.

"Me thinks that Monte protests too much about the manufacturer's techniques".. when by doing so, he reveals a lack of understanding of using a SPECIFIC ferrite sample.

NOTE MY WORDING B.....SPECIFIC (Meaning both size and specification).

Do you get that B ???????

Why not take it upon your good-self to put Monte's critisism to any manufacturer that YOU choose, or Monte will identify, and ask their opinion?

I guaranty you they would not accept his protestations, on the grounds that he is not fully understanding the relatiity of the methods used. (If indeed they in particular, use such methods).

...................................

No one asked to compare real ground and ferrite samples, everyone knows it is two different things.

OK B...You tell us EXACTLY, what are the differences?
{for the benefit of the readers who are not so knowledgable as you},

.................................

Quote:-
The in-ground performance of a preset GB detector will however be influenced by the worker that sat that preset GB at the manufacturing plant.

That's no mind blowing realisation B.......

What you haven't told us, is whether that is for the good, or detremental to performance. (The 'odds' are even)

YOU IMPLY it is detremental.....Cobblers....It could, if they are as inept as you or Monty say they are....that they could also err on the positive side of matters, and so make it beneficial.....No?

.........................................

FACT:- If you buy a machine with a 'pre-set' ground factor, then what the hell !!!

You get what you pay for. PRE-SET GROUND PERFORMANCE.

Seeing how every ground situation is UNIQUE, both by the hour, day month, season, weather,,,,,and not forgeting, locality,
then what is the significance of this Utopian dream setting you are expecting on a pre-set detector, related to?

When you figure out the technical answere to that, then you will have seen the light regarding 'using ferrite'.

..............................................

B......Give the good folk out there something they can chew over.

Feed their enquiring with FACTS, not speculations and innuendoes.

...............................

And not all ferrite is equal, I can answer that. Even if all ferrite is equal by the ounce you dont have any set amount of ferrite to use by any manufacturer. A bigger piece will set the GB otherwise then a smaller piece and that is what Monte addressed. He could not know that someone stepped in on such a post. It is obvious anyway.

Monte just addressed the different ferrite ( volume) samples that different manufacturers use on their assembly line to "try" to set a proper all round GB on their preset GB units. And he is right, the methods used dont assure that the preset GB on all detectors is equal and by no means proper for your ground.

....................

Quote:-

And he is right, the methods used dont assure that the preset GB on all detectors is equal and by no means proper for your ground.

bfodnes

End quote:

B....Who on the forum raised the claim that ALL pre-settings for GB are equal ????? OR EVEN SHOULD BE ??????????

I can't imagine ANY ONE being daft enough to claim that there is such a thing as PERFECTLY PREDICTABLE ground.

Then if that is so obvious, why demand or argue so dogmatically, about non-consistency in different manufacturers pre-set GB settings, when the parameter they are trying to cater for is itself so variable?

......................

Thanks for the opportunity to exchange thoughts on the subject...MattR.UK.

......................

 

[John(Tx)]

As long as the machine will ground balance and work fine, what does it matter? You guys are getting way too technical, this is just a hobby for the majority of us. Have a good day Matt and good hunting. John

 

[MattR]

n/t

 

[James/Washington]

I would guess that the majority of detectorists are just average 'Joes' and do not have nor do not want the knowledge of what ferrite is or does or how a detectors circuirty performs gb. I have seen many posts about how ferrite can help in gb but I have no need for it. We only want a detector that has or doesen't have manual, auto or other gb functions. All we want is a detector that works the way we want and either let the detector do the gb for us or us be able to gb the detector as we see fit. This is the reason for different modles of detectors. It is ok by me that some want to experiment with ferrite and detectors. Those reports are one of the reasons I purchase some detectors but I leave that to others. I want to detect and I want to be able to set my own gb for each area I hunt because I feel that a detector with only a 'pre-set gb' may not operate well in some ground conditions. Someone else may want to turn on the detector and hunt, letting the detector's electronics work with gb as the detector sees fit. That is O.K. by me as well. After almost 30 years of detecting, one thing I have learned is that there is NOT one detector that fits ALL detectorists and the most important thing in detecting is to learn the detector you use. After hours and hours of use in the field, one should be able to gb , with ease, the detector he or she is using but I do not need to have a major in electronics to do this. I do not need to know how my truck is made, I do need to know how to drive it. I enjoy reading ALL posts here and at other boards as I have learned much. Run me off if you want to but can't we all use this great board as a learning tool and a place to have a little fun? Lighten up, folks!!! Now, lets go detecting!!!

 

[Rudy]

take the high ground and rather than point out what you think are errors in Monte's post, give us all
a proper explanation on the use of ferrite for detector adjustment.

A good explanation, at the appropriate level of technical depth (e.g. you don't need to get into
the BH loop characteristics of different ferrite mixes), on how a ferrite specimen is used to make
adjustments or perform checks in a detector, would be more valuable and better received by
members of this forum.

 

[Gort]

do not compare yourself to Einstein, Bohr, Planck, Schr

 

[Captain Kirk]

Matt

I have respect for you opinion, but I need some clarification

You posted "Ferrite IS Ferrite. REGARDLESS OF THE VARIOUS SIZES, SHAPES AND VALUES OF PERMEABILITY.".

Your statement suggests that any piece of ferrite will cause the metal detector to behave the same regardless of its size, shape and permeability. Am I interpreting that correctly?

I spent many years designing magnetics for switch mode power supplies. There are many many different ferrites. They come in a whole range of permeability (as you suggested)and hysteresis loss values not to mention different shapes. I believe that for a given size and shape of a peice of ferrite, that the permeability will have a significant effect on the imposed magnetic field by metal detector and the response of the metal detector. Do you disagree with that?

HH,
Glenn