Fastest recovery - from a null or from a tone?

[wayne_etc]

Let's see, how to ask this so it makes sense...

Some folks like to run patterns, and some folks like to clear out a good portion of the screen. If you do the patterns you're gonna hear more nulls and fewer tones. On the other hand, if you open up more of the screen you're gonna hear more tones and fewer nulls. You're basically choosing to hear a bunch of tones that you may or may not dig, or you're gonna hear nulls that indicate objects that you've decided ahead of time that you're going to ignore.

So the question - which method is best for trashy areas? Does the machine recover faster from a null or from a tone? If a good item is located next to trash, are you just as likely to hear the good item if it is preceded by a null or a "bad" tone?

I have had experiences (as Bryce has discussed) where I've picked a goodie out of a solid null, but I'd like to know how folks feel about response time with either method.


Thanks in advance.

w

 

[ExpIInut]

I've been waiting for an opportunity to drop this into a post and this seems like the time to do it - I've been using an Explorer since 1999 and very early on it became apparent that the only way to use them was wide open as regards "iron mask" so that I could here everything (faster recovery) - all it meant was going that little bit slower in the more cluttered areas. I am intrigued by the claims of POSITIVE signals whilst the machine is in null so I've tried to replicate this without success. HOW and WHEN does this happen, obviously with no "iron mask" I'm not going to experience it am I. Could anyone please advise me of a little test so I can prove it to myself - thanks - Gaz.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Not a big fan of tests in general as tough to recreate actual field conditions but experimentation when you find in the field what you feel is a good deep target sure takes some time but may be beneficial for many years to come relative your settings in future hunts.
Patterns are merely discrimination and will rob you of depth and to tell the truth just recently started playing with the patterns and always ran wide open and felt John Philips Sousa band mainly the flute section was following me around but felt it gave me more depth and above all more info of what was in the ground I was hunting and above all targets near what may be a good target.
Imagine many excell either way but Minelab gives you the ability to do so and perhaps a learned forum member could add more expertise as I just gave you my feelings in laymans terms.

 

[ExpIInut]

I'm not worried about finding targets - after 10 years of using an Explorer I don't think I've missed much, but to pass a ferrous target past the coil, then whilst in null pass a non ferrous target over it is hardly a difficult test. But there must be more to it than that - am contacting Minelab to quiz them.

 

[dewcon4414]

With a pattern the machine not only experiences the normal coil shut down but it also has to null thru the headphones and update the screen. This seems to take a bit longer to recover than just merely a tone. If you hunt in AM and move slowly just listen to all those tones.... seems to recover pretty quickly to me. Null seems to stretch longer than a tone but doesnt mean the machine isnt operating.... sensitivity may also play a part of this recovery as you can tell by the screen freeze. You get the tone in trash regardless of screen freeze so why arent you able to retrieve targets in null? Im not certain about a depth change thou since we are talking about the headphones not really what the detector is doing when sending and receiving signals. My understand is you get coil shut down over every target.... which will reduce depth based on targets in the area and doesnt have a lot to do with the null response. But then ive been wrong before lol. Im like you Dan... as lay person as you get. Not everyone is a tecky so for most its just what works for them thats important.

Dew

 

[sgoss66]

wayne_etc --

You have asked a most interesting question, and I have pondered the same exact question in my mind for many hours, over many months. I would love to have someone from Minelab -- an engineer -- answer that very question. Not a guess, not speculation, but a very clear, straightforward answer -- is the machine faster to recover coming out of a null, when using a disc. pattern or iron mask, or is it faster to recover when coming off of a prior tone, in all-metals mode/open screen. In other words, when hunting in heavy iron/trash, is it less likely to miss a "good" target using an open screen and listening for a good-sounding target amongst the noise, is it less likely to miss a "good" target using some disc. or iron mask and waiting for a good target to sound through the null, or are both methods equally good/equally fast?

I have heard many, many opinions on this -- but I'd love to hear the facts, from the engineer's mouth. Superb question Wayne!

Steve

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

The bad news is you have to hunt the site both ways if you want to get all the good targets because there are times when running in all metal (iron mask no disc) hides good targets. Case in point, I was hunting a site with lots of rusty bottle caps so I had them notched out. Yet I get a rusty bottle cap signal a little higher up the screen, I listen to this signal and think no way a bottle cap sounds that good. So I switched to all metal, man it locked onto the bottle cap solid, textbook rusty bottle cap ID on the screen, textbook rusty bottle cap tone. I think, bummer and switch back to my disc screen. I scanned the target again as I prepared to move on and again the ID inches up the screen a bit and I think, no freaking way a bottle cap sounds that good. So I dig about a 7 inch plug and fip it over, stuck to the bottom of the plug is a rusty bottle cap. Hmmm I go into the hole with my probe and its screaming silver, a few inches down is a barber half dollar. So had I been running iron mask all metal I would have never dug that target. I have seen the same behavior with other trash targets, sometimes in iron mask all metal it locks onto the trash target solid with no hint of the good target yet if you disc out the trash target it locks onto the good target.

I once built a concentric coil for the Explorer, that thing would flat pick through trash I was amazed at some of the plugs I dug that had the good target dead center and trash targets in the side of the plug yet all I heard was the good target.

Explorer Black Arts Tip: If you hunt in iron mask with no disc (all metal) be on the lookout for nulls. Hey wait a minute, since when does the Explorer null in all metal that doesn't make sense. Yet it will, that should stop you in your tracks and you should be thinking silver. Here's the pattern, a nail at 3 oclock and a nail at 9 oclock pointing towards each other 12 to 18 inches apart. In the center between these nails incredibly the Explorer nulls, its like it gets confused and doesn't know what to do, the threashold goes quiet yet it doesn't make a tone, just silence. DIG a plug in the center, I have found silver between the nails every time this has happened, last one was 2 silver quarters and a silver dime.