F2 batteries. Manual clearly says Alkaline only. Lost Treasure says NiMH OK. Which is right???

[TeslaFan]

Background:
The lost treasure review says NiMH rechargeable batteries can be used at: http://losttreasure.com/fieldtests/ArchiveView.cfm?ID=LT20080823 where Andy Sabisch says, "The F2 is powered by two 9-volt batteries (included with the detector) and NiMH cells can be used with no adverse effect on performance."

The Fisher manual says Alkaline-only at: http://www.internetcetera.com/f2manual.pdf

Problem:
So can someone at Fisher let us know if we can use rechargeable batteries or not? Most do not like to use 9v batteries as are not as good AA. Alkaline-only 9v batteries could get very expensive with use which could be a reason not to buy the F2 for some who are looking for a low cost detector.

Possible Solutions:
If we can use NiMH batteries many will go that way. If Alkaline-only we need to plan for that cost before we buy so want to get to the bottom of this. Lastly, the F2 is light so adding a pack of AA batteries to do a conversion is possible. I hear of guys putting the control housing in waterproof boxes as well as adding packs of AA batteries as they claim may provide more power and some feel will give the F2 better depth and longer battery life while not sure. Will keep you all posted with pictures, results, and details when available.

Hope someone out there can add to this ...

Ed

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I've used rechargeable NiMH 9V batteries in my F4 exclusively. They won't last quite as long as an alkaline, but their outlast me hunting for a full day. I can't imagine why a NiMH would be any different they anything else, 9 volts is 9 volts.

HH,
Brian

 

[TeslaFan]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your reply and insight in your F4 comparing Alkaline to NiMH. Glad to hear they work similar it is just that the NiMH do not last as long.

9 volts isn't always 9 volts. To just use what is easy may not be best.

Metal detectors create a magnetic field to find things so the current a battery can provide could effect the strength of that magnetic field. Yes the time they last is also the other major consideration. The new electric cars use NiMH batteries for some reason so they are good in that application and may work well in the F2 while do not know so more research needs to be done for us all to know for sure. I do know comparing voltage and amps is like comparing horsepower to torque in an engine. For example, horsepower without torque doesn't work well in a truck, boat, or airplane while works alright in a car.

To get the most out of the Fisher F2 metal detector research needs to be done on how Alkaline 9v and NiMH 9v batteries would compare to AA battery options as well as other battery pack options such as using a Makita 9.6v portable tool rechargeable battery pack or possibly some other special remote control electric car rechargeable battery then how all would perform in the F2 specific circuitry to pick the best option (or for some other specific metal detector or any other specific application). It may be possible one of them is a clear winner when it comes to depth and possibly another would win in terms of battery life. Maybe Alkaline and NiMH they work the same in the F2 as Lost Treasure states while do not know (as you advise they probably will have less life). The Fisher printed manual clearly says use ONLY Alkaline 9v batteries so someone there seems to think the F2 is best with them for possibly some good reasons such as depth or battery life or combination of both. In many metal detectors using headphones will extend battery life.

1) To buy two Alkaline 9v batteries for every day detecting or possibly even multiple sets per day with the F2 could get expensive as it is what the Fisher F2 manual clearly says to do. Most who are buying an inexpensive detector do not want that much of a fixed expense and the more it is used the more batteries would cost which is a consideration when buying any metal detector. I do hope using NiMH is similar and work fine in the F2 as it would be an easy solution while would like to hear it from Fisher it is OK and see them update their manual to say so.

2) It is possible the F2 would have better depth or last longer per dollar with some sort of AA battery pack (Alkaline, NiMH, NiCad, ...) or other power conversion so was hoping to open conversation for ideas on the topic as is interesting to think about getting better depth and having longer battery life ...

Ed

 

[Mr.Bill]

as to the best battery to use, over a hobby magazine.

The cost factor here is very minimal, as the alkaline 9 volt cells have a long working life in the F2. Also using 9v cells, kept the weight down. Were dealing with a entry level detector here, and things needed to be kept as easy, and less complicated as could be.

It's doubtful that there would be any performance improvements in depth by changing out the cells to stronger ones. The circuit is regulated at 5 volts.

 

[Bugar In. USA]

Like they say, just don't last as long, when mine drops down to 1 bar on battery life, i put in new ones, have checked the volts on MINE at 1 bar and they read 7 v.

 

[Steve(MS)]

They probably only recommended alkaline because there are not many good rechargeable 9 volt batteries. I have some powerex 9 volt rechargeables that are true 9 volt with over 200 mah, they work well as long they are charged before using. I think you are right, those 9 volt alkaline get expensive if you have to keep buying them. I don't see that using the rechargeables would change the way the detector operates as long as the it is getting proper voltage and amps.

 

[TeslaFan]

My son races remote control cars and he wins if he pays for and runs the best batteries. If he doesn't spend the money and use the right batteries he isn't even close. Metal Detecting is a different kind of race with others in a way as many of the best metal detecting spots are known and well traveled by others.

Just asking a good question as it is something to think about when creating a magnetic field in hopes to find things. Tried to do the research to answer my own question and have found it isn't possible. FISHER WAKE UP ...

It is frustrating to potential customers, the manufacturer Fisher (First Texas), has us guessing what kind of battery to use. If we take the manuals words directly serious, it clearly says ALKALINE ONLY, and it is my point.

Using two Alkaline 9v batteries in an F2 could be too expensive for some of us to consider buying one. It is smart to do our research before we buy as we vote with our dollars. Example: those who do not use headsets and have the speaker and other knobs cranked up could go through multiple sets of batteries a single day! The cost of Alkaline 9v batteries two at a time would add up to so much it would make the F2, what could have been a great affordable detector, a bad investment for many in the long run. Seems someone is missing the boat on how to create and market a low cost metal detector to the masses.

Ed

 

[chuck ky]

don't know which lasts longer but 2 nine volt and 4 aa cost .98 at big lots and seem to last a good while. i have tried the more powerful aa's in my t-2. they do last longer but i can't tell that they improve the finding power of the detector.

 

[Steve(MS)]

If you are interested in the F2, then stick some of those powerex 9 volt rechargeable batteries in it, I bet you will get good results. I use them in my 3300 which will just suck the life out of alkaline batteries in a hurry, after I bought them, I didn't have to worry about batteries anymore. I see no reason why rechargeables can't be used in the F2 but that is my take on it.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

The main difference I would see in the batteries would be mah (assuming their truly rated at (9V). Nicads can build a memory (like the rechargeable batteries that come with some of the Minelabs) whereas it's recommended to completely drain them prior to recharging. NiHM aren't supposed to develop a memory. Both my Fisher Coinstrike and F4 (an upgraded F2 essentially) use 9V batteries, so I have two sets of rechargeable 9V NiHM batteries. The F4 has great battery life, and a set of batteries will last a long time (probably 30-40 hours, using headphones will extend the battery time), the Coinstrike seems to use more juice, and a fresh set of batteries seem to last more in the 20+ hour range. I would assume things like coil size, headphones, pinpointing usage, and sensitivity settings will all have an impact on battery life.

 

[Shambler]

While it's true that 9v is 9v it's not the only force at work. Fisher would know best how the circuit is made. While the NiMH seems to last a long time, things happen during that discharge period that can cause stress on the circuitry. It would take a day to explain just the simple resistence difference in the NiMH battery. It's safe to say at a minimum, you'll get a different level of performance, but I would guess it's the circuit life span you'd be more interested in.

 

[TeslaFan]

Thank you all for your input. Do hope this can be a most useful thread on using batteries for all who use a metal detector. All information is welcome. This tread is intended to help us communicate to share experiences so we can learn what may be best not only in the F2 but other metal detectors as well.

Practical experiences from real end user customers is valuable and great information to have. Even if the end users don't know why they know how it is such as people above saying NiMH 'work fine but do not last as long' - while yes it is possible in some circuits to cause damage. Using the wrong batteries in the long run even if they work for a while is what many end-users do not understand. Would hate to kill any metal detector, especially an expensive one possibly costing thousands such as a new Minelab or something, because the wrong batteries are used. Factories do not stand behind and repair when something is used not stated in their manual.

Yes Shambler you are so right it would take a days or maybe even weeks to explain battery technology and the different types of batteries as well as emerging technologies. This could be a very long conversation! Even then some people would never understand. Years of very specific training or a formal education such as electrical engineering degrees help while often isn't enough alone (yes I have this so feel comfortable to say). Practical direct experience, attention to details, knowing the internal circuitry details, testing, end-user feedback, as well as some others things are what it takes to make things the best they can be as well as improved moving forward. The customer is king and it is really true when creating the best needed total solutions.

Hope this gets the attention of the right people at Fisher so someone there who knows the F2 design insides will tell us directly if they mean Alkaline ONLY in the circuitry of the F2 as their manual clearly says. Just want to know the answer direct from the factory source to know how we proceed before we buy (me, my son, my brother, my brothers kids, my dad, my friends, the readers here, etc). If only alkaline batteries can be used in the F2 we all can plan in the cost to buy batteries depending on how much we will be detecting into our purchases or maybe will consider buying something else. If other rechargeable batteries such as NiMH can be used then we will all know and Fisher can maybe make a note they need to update their manuals someday in the future and consider this pre-sales customer feedback and quality control with good intentions.

Ed

 

[Scully]

Why dont you call them directly, and ask them? I am sure they would be happy to tell you if you actually asked them. I called them and asked, and was told their testing was done using Alkalines, so thats what they recommend. They indicated rechargables would work, but not last as long as Alkalines, so they decided to recommend Alkaline batteries. It could have been worded better in the manual, but they meant to keep it simple. Metal detectors have electronics that regulate the voltage to the circuitry, and thats why they still work even when your battery indicator shows that half your power is gone, so technically it will work with other batteries, but they recommend you use Alkalines.

There seems to be people in this hobby that for what-ever reason, seem to want to pounce on every little thing they find questionable with these new Fisher machines, or the manuals, and even the website. I dont hear or read the same complaints about any of the other major detector manufacturers and I wonder why Fisher seems to be singled out all the time. It seems like there people waiting to pounce and attack them on the slightest of issues. Consider for a moment that they have had a large number of new machines recently introduced and if you think about it, thats quite a feat. When was the last time any other manufacture came out with 7 new machines in two years? Are there going to be some typos's in the manuals? Probably. Could something's probably been worded better? Sure. Are there going to be a few bugs with some of the electronics? With out a doubt. But they will work them out, just like all the other manufactures do, but rather than complain about it on a forum, why not turn it into constructive criticism? Voice your questions and concerns directly to factory, in the form of a letter or email, or hey, how about his: a phone call! Go right to the source. Every manufacturer loves "feedback", especially if it creates a way for them to improve their product. They dont have the time nor the man power to monitor every detecting forum and reply to every single complaint. You dont see Charles Garrett or James Gifford posting reply's all over the internet. But they will all accept your calls and answer your questions about their products. If you think there is a mistake or misdirection in their manual, tell them about.

I am not justifying any of the faults or flaws of Fisher or any of the manufactures, but I think we could cut them a little slack. In time these new machines will be proven, good or bad, but as users our strongest voice is not in bad-mouthing the flaws on our favorite forum, but rather in directing our comments (good or bad) directly to the manufacturers. Thats where it will carry the most weight.

 

[jim tn]

n/t

 

[markg]

n/t

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I thought this thread went south rather quickly when a simple phone call would've removed all doubt from the nay sayers.

HH,
Brian

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

n/t

 

[Cal_Cobra]

n/t