Explorers vs. the E-Trac; my first experiences, and a question...

[sgoss66]

Everyone --

As most of you know, I've been using my SE Pro now for about 8 months. In this time, I have become pretty used to what the machine is telling me (of course, there's still ALOT more to learn, but...)

However, I've been nagged in my mind from the day I purchased the SE Pro as to whether I'm giving up anything hunting with an Explorer instead of an E-Trac. Well, I now have an opportunity to hunt for awhile with an E-Trac -- as a friend of mine is "out of commission" for awhile and is letting me borrow his unit. I am hoping, through this opportunity, to once and for all settle the issue in my mind as to which machine might be more capable.

Well, I have hunted with the E-Trac for a couple of hours now (not very long, obviously), and in this amount of time, I have felt like a fish out of water!! I didn't realize how much I've gotten used to the subtleties and quirks and peculiarities of my Explorer. I guess I have learned to read the subtle hints that the machine gives, and have in a way "become one" with my SE Pro. I would not have known this necessarily, but I found it out by swinging the E-Trac -- because although it is quite similar on the surface, in terms of tones and general operation, I quickly learned that it is quite a different machine. For shallow coins, no problem. If I just want to dig solid, "textbook" perfect hits, I do just fine with it. In that type of hunting (shallow, easy coins) it is quite similar to the Explorer, to me. However, I have spent these first couple of hours with the E-Trac in a hammered, "hunted-out" park -- trying to listen for subtle, deep coins that may have been missed, and also trying to hit a few partially masked targets that may reveal themselves to the E-Trac but didn't to my Explorer. And in searching for these more sublte targets, I quickly found that my assumption that an "iffy" coin will behave the same on the E-Trac as they do on the Explorer was a very incorrect assumption. I chased several "iffy" deep hits; a few I could not find at all (which NEVER happens with my Explorer), and a few were VERY DEEP chunks of metal -- which I also am almost never fooled by on my Explorer. A few were nails and such. NONE were good targets. It's clear that even beyond the different ID numbers, the E-Trac is a different beast (despite all the "familiarities" and "similarities").

I do intend to spend more time with the E-Trac, but my ability to find good targets is definitely suffering at this point. I know many have said that it's normal for your finds to temporarily decrease when using a new machine, and I'm seeing this. Also, from what I've seen folks say, the E-Trac is most advantageous to NON-Explorer users -- and I can see why. I think there is more of a potential for the "wow" factor for someone acquiring an E-Trac for the first time, and who has NOT used an Explorer before; still, I am going to continue to give the E-Trac a chance to "wow" me.

For now, my very preliminary thoughts are that it's going to be tough for me to want to give up the Explorer -- which I am now so familiar with. While curious, I was not convinced before I used the E-Trac that it would be a big improvement over an Explorer; though two hours is in NO WAY a fair comparison, I remain unconvinced at this point that it is a drastically superior unit. While my mind may change in time, this is where I'm at for now. I know that I DO NOT like the pinpoint function as well (though I know there are two different pinpoint modes and I have only tried one), I do NOT like the lack of digital ID in pinpoint mode, but I DO like the ergonomics; FAR superior to the Explorer. One other thing is, it's hard for me to "grasp" at this point the way to understand the machine in terms of target ID. With the Explorer, it's easy to understand the "logic" of the FE and CO numbers; however, with "good" targets "normalized" to FE number 12 on the E-Trac, it becomes difficult for me to visualize and grasp, for instance, the implications of hunting in "quick mask." Some of this is simply experience, I'm sure, but for me being used to the Explorer, I find the FE and CO numbers much more confusing, instead of simpler (which is what I think the E-Trac was supposed to do -- make it simpler). Anyway, I'm rambling...but thought some of this might help someone else who has at least considered an "upgrade." I'll continue to post my thoughts as I get more used to the E-Trac. I know Bryce has used both, and went "back" to his Explorer -- preferring it to the E-Trac. Based on my first impressions, I can see why, and at least at this point (though I may prove myself wrong) I can see me arriving at the same conclusion.

A question...how long (for those of you who started with Explorers, and then got familiar with the E-Trac) did it take you to get used to the E-Trac, and learn what it was telling you with respect to the "iffy" targets?

Steve

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Explorer SE (with SE pro coil), and SE Pro are superior machines imo when hunting deeper targets and smaller targets. Easy to setup for max performance, WAY more target information. One way of looking at this is with the ETrac you have to trust the machine more to analyze the information and tell you what to do vs the Explorer gives you all the information and lets you decide. ;-)

 

[sgoss66]

Interesting take, Charles. I agree the Explorer is very easy to set up for maximum performance; I also think I understand what you mean by "you have to trust the E-Trac to analyze the info, versus letting YOU analyze it" -- that involves the E-Trac "normalizing FE numbers of good targets to the 12 FE line" right? In other words, it tries to tell you what it thinks is a good target (giving it a "12" FE number), versus letting you figure it out based on your experience with the machine (in the case of the Explorer). But, what do you mean by "WAY more target information?" I assume this includes ID in pinpoint mode...

STeve

 

[Elton]

Enjoyed your post ............ I, just went back to the Se Pro.

In my experience the Etrac just didn't produce as well as the "Mighty" Se Pro. I'm sure in many ways the E is improved, I see and read of many great finds with it.
.......................................... It took me a long time to understand all the Se Pro offered in superior detecting............. So I guess it would be fair to say I DID NOT..give the Etrac a fair chance.

I did not care for the 12 Numbers ............ I was hitting three times the amount of Iron ( Junk ) hits..........chasing false signals with good sound, and supposed good number Id's........
I think there may be something to the if you are a new Minelab user...........you will start out being much improved over the machine you were using with the Etrac. If you were using the Se Pro,
then the expectations may be a let down............ The Etrac to me felt like a Turn on and go detector..........Minelab supplied all the settings......... Right , wrong , on my assumptions, who knows..

.........that is just what they are "My" Assumptions.

All I know for sure, is I do much better using the Se Pro .. Let's all face it...we each have our preference........ we each like, or dislike a machine for one reason or another.....we will always do better with what we like. XS, Exp II, SE, SE Pro, and Etrac .......... In their own way for someone each machine is a best fit.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

n/t

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

I got my flame suit on so here it goes. You guys are getting hung up on that FE 12 line stuff. All it does is puts the targets across the screen horizontally for the cursor instead of your S curve on your machines. If you read Andy's book items can as far as FE goes fall as low as 27 on the screen so I don't even pay attention to the FE numbers at all just the TONES and the CO numbers. If you run a more open screen with less blacked out (discriminated) area you will hit more targets and get way more target info too. That is why you guys on your Explorers run them in iron mask screen (ALL METAL ALL THE TIME) at a certain setting instead of the discrimination screen like Bryce does running his machine at 22 in Iron Mask screen.

SO after finding a fairly good hit in discrimination screen while detecting and your in doubt on this IFFY target you can just hit ONE BUTTON once on the face of the E-TRAC to go to a wide open quick mask screen which is your SE's iron mask screen and if the cursor dives to the bottom of the screen below what would be no. 27 FE to check on that IFFY signal your not sure of to dig (top of screen is 1 FE bottom of screen is 35FE ) and or the cursor goes to the bottom right hand corner of the screen and it don't come out it's iron-junk don't even waste your time no matter what it sounds like!!

If it only goes part of the way down on the screen or tries to jump back up into the mid way area of the screen closer to that 12 line area it's something worth digging. By using a far less blacked out discrimination screen than the one that it has preset you will get more targets and way more hits and info while running it in CONDUCTIVE TONES BUT despite running a LOT OF DISCRIMINATION the E-TRAC isn't effected with loss of target signals like other machines are when they run a lot of discrimination. The E will still find the good targets as you can see how much blacked out area there is on the preset coins pattern it has in it from the factory along with the beach presetand the high trash pattern which mostly all blacked out but the coins come on through. The relic pattern is the most wide open of all the patterns with the least ammount of black.

This is why some came up with 2 tone ferous or TTF settings. Your running it in FEROUS TONES instead of CONDUCTIVE TONES so it gives you a high tone for good objects above that 27 ferous line all the way to the top of the screen at no.1 FE and anything lower than that 27 line is junk iron area down to the bottom of the screen at 35 FE which gives a low tone and you can run a completely wide open quick mask screen and it way speeds up the processing of the machine of targets and unmasks co located good targets on, near, or under bad targets, those really, really iffy signals. Just another way you can set this machine up to run compared to the Explorers giving it more versatility to go over an area littered with iron nails and such to see good targets amoung the bad with no doubts. Just look at the cursor location and if it isn't up on the screen and a high tone don't dig it!!.

You need to set the ground setting to DIFFICULT for North American soil and if it's sandy like a beach or a plowed farm field you set it to normal very important. You also set the TRASH setting to HIGH and leave it there. What that does is gives it the see through capabilities if there's 2 close targets and one is good and not discriminated out in black on the discrimination screen and the other is junk it gives the signal to you of that good target overiding the possiably bigger bad object.

Theyrecommend running the machine on AUTO SENSITIVITY and most of us run it at the +3 setting and it runs real smooth and quiet and can be swung faster than an Explorer can while getting pretty good depth BUT If you set it to MANUAL SENSITIVITY you can drive it way deeper like your explorer as most of you run in manual for the depth as the auto on yours works different E-TRACS will go higher if it can in auto yours will go no higher than what you have it set at and it just lowers it only the E-TRAC will raise and lower it depending on what it sees by comparing 3 channels against a 4th ground reference channel but you have to deal with chattery chirps and pops and such like you do on your Explorers so it will go really deep the same as yours do.
The Auto will be slightly less and that is where your thinking that the Explorers are deeper as you don't have the SAME TYPE OF AUTO as on the E-TRAC. the E takes 4 different cnannels and uses 3 for sensitivity a low, a medium, and a high and compares them for the best depth overall sensitivity with smooth running and we can on the face of the machine see where that is as it varies as you go across an area either up or down depending on the ground and uses the 4th for ground reference and comparison to the others. I hope I'm explaining that correctly as it's been a while since I read Andy's book or the manual.

Try giving MANUAL then AUTO +3 a try over deep iffy's you find with your Explorers and then do a comparison after setting GROUND to DIFFICULT and TRASH to HIGH and leave deep off and fast off but raise the volume GAIN up to 29 or 30 from 24 for the real deepies like Bryce does going to 10 on his SE and then compare signals and conductive numbers. Try pinpoint in the other setting where you can rehit the button to make the signal smaller for precise pinpointing while moving over the spot/target.

I would love to get together some time with someone with their explorer and try a comparison OH by the way I had an Explorer 11 for a number of years through this decade till the E-Trac came along and my coin counts went up not down as myself and this machine just seemed to click the first time I tried it out in the field at the same parks I have been hitting with all the other machines I owned and others had hunted since the 60's. I had used Whites/Fisher/Garretts/Tesoro etc. machines for years before that so numbers going horizontally across a screen was more familiar to me than upwards in an S shape and I really like having the cursor and a FE and CO number on one screen together for as much info as possiable with the tones and depth and such to decide to dig or not???

Not trying to butt heads or criticize just trying to help or educate or inform those that have gotten used to their one machine and not giving enough time and the correct settings for the right reasons on the E-TRAC to see if it is better or not as Andy and Minelab state it's not an upgraded Explorer but a different machine altogether and has different settings that make it so that have to be understood and set or used to bring out the best in the machine.

 

[greasecarguy]

excellent, infomative post Tom...I have no opinion on this but I appreciate highly detailed, relevant info like this.

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

Hey Tom,

I am a XS user, haven't tried the E-Trac so I better put on my flame retardant suit also.

One thing I do know you have wrong is operation of Auto/manual of the older explorers. In Auto the explorers will also set the sensitivity higher than the manual set point. It one of the many misunderstandings that keep coming up year after year, much like you need to swing slow to get depth.

Over the years I've had many people try this. Set sensitivity to 1 manual and see what depth you get on a target. Usually only an inch or two. Switch to Auto and you will get much more depth. The explorers will RAISE the sensitivity when they can, and quite drastically. And conversely they can drastically LOWER the sensitivity in auto. My gut feeling is that either EMI or a target rich environment will cause the machine to think there is too much noise and lower sensitivity.

Not as sure about this but I believe the earlier models also use multiple channels for setting sensitivity in AUTO. This question was asked way back when the ETrac came out and someone from Minelab said the Etracs work essentially the same as the earlier models, but have the +3 option and indicate what the actual real time sensitivity is.

I do believe that almost everything they have done to the Etrac is an improvement from the explorers, and will buy one when my XS gives up the ghost. What I and the others don't understand is the FE 12 line. On the older models you could discern a nickel from a dime from a pull tab from Jimmy Hoffa from either the CO or FE reading. And the two together gave us the beloved bounce. Why have a two axis display when 99% of targets have a value of 12? What is the advantage to this? By not having those values all mapped to the same value would it take away any of the supposed advantages of the Etrac? Never heard a good explanation, and I have read the manual and Andy's book.

Pretend Minelab's sales department had every year prior to 2008 made a graph that charted year 2000 Minelab sales as 100 machines and in 2001 160 sold, and 2002 400, etc. Then the next year they made the same graph but decided that every years sale's numbers would arbitrarily set at 350. Nice flat line across the years. No irritating "S" curve, or ups and downs. Nor any useful information either. I am quite certain many folks would ask "What the heck is the reason for that?"

And that remains my question. How does having a pull tab and silver dime both reading 12 ferrous make this a better machine? Couldn't it do everything just as well if that wasn't the case?

Chris

 

[sgoss66]

Great posts, guys -- thanks Tom; no need for a "flame suit" as I am here to learn. I love the information.

Chris -- I think the Explorers (and I could be wrong) CAN go "higher" on sensitivity that what is set, when in auto -- BUT ONLY if running lower than like 16, I think it is. My understanding is if you run, say, auto 10, your machine may choose "14" if the ground allows. HOWEVER, if you are running auto 22, I am almost sure it cannot pick, say, 25. I think the break point is 16 (as to whether it can go "higher" than the auto setting or not) -- I recall reading about this, but can't remember the details perfectly. Also, while I agree with you about the "12" line, I don't think a pull tab should read on the 12 line, should it? I think the attempt was to get GOOD targets on the 12 line, but NOT "bad" ones...so that if you just dig 10's and 11's and 12's and 13's, stuff right around the 12 line, in theory you should dig mostly good targets (but of course, more experienced users realize you'd also MISS a ton of targets...)

Just as an update -- I ran the machine again today for about an hour. I felt like I may have been "trying too hard" to dig iffy signals the previous hunts -- as a result of the fact that I am aware there are very few goodies in this park that aren't tough targets. So I think I was trying to see if I could pick out a tough one. Today, though, I changed my thinking. What I decided I'd do is to mark targets with the E-Trac, trying to pick clearer, decent-sounding (but greater than 4" deep) targets, and then go get the Explorer and run it over the targets I'd identified with the E-Trac. This was a great learning experience. I found and marked eight targets; two of them, I felt, had a high probability of being good ones, and one in particular I was very confident was silver, using the E-Trac. A few others I thought could be Injuns, and a few I thought would have at least a 50/50 shot of being a deep rusty nail, but still were interesting enough sounding in terms of possibility of a good target, to go ahead and mark.

When I ran the Explorer over each E-Trac-located target, what I learned was that the response was VERY similar on both machiens. The target that I thought was silver hit just as hard on the Explorer, and sounded just as silver. The target I thought MIGHT be silver, but was almost definitely a good coin, same thing on the Explorer. There was one target that on the E-Trac sounded fairly good when circling it for about 270 degrees, but nulled in about a 90-degree sector; this was the EXACT same response I got on the Explorer...I found that interesting (it turned out to be a rusty nail). The target I thought was likely silver turned out to be a 1945 Mercury dime from about 5" (yea -- first E-Trac silver! ). It was an easy target (I'm surprised it was still there, being that easy). The possibly silver but definitely a good coin target ended up being a 6" deep 1944 wheatie. The others were junk -- usually multiple rusty nails. I never did find the one target that sounded like a possible deep Indian (on BOTH machines...) The important thing was, though, that a "good" target was also "good" on the Explorer; a "so-so" target was ALSO "so-so" on the Explorer, and I felt a good bit more like I understood what was going on today. I think I was initially "trying too hard" with the E-Trac for the first couple of hours, trying to make a good target out of something that sounded iffy. I learned that at least on these mid-depth targets, response on both machines was very similar. I would have found any of these targets with either machine. I didn't get any real "fringe-depth" target to check out with both machines, but I now feel like I could find good targets using either one; the one thing I CAN'T yet do with any confidence, of course, is find the tricky ones with the E-Trac; that would take more experience as for now I'd dig nothing but junk.

My impressions though are that the E-Trac is a very smooth machine, smoother than the Explorer. Also, it's easier, I'd think, to hunt with for a "new" user, mostly due to the smoothness/less high-tone falsing and chirping and popping. To further my point here, I ran my Explorer for about 20 minutes at the end of the hunt over the same small area I ran the E-Trac in, and while I pulled an additional wheat (192 with the Explorer, it was definitely more chattery over the same ground that the E-Trac was pretty quiet over. To be fair, though, I was running a program that mimics a "QuickMask" of about 17 I think -- not sure as it is one of my friend's programs -- but obviously I was blocking everything from about 15 or 16 or 17 FE and higher -- open screen in about the top third to half of the screen, black on the bottom half to 2/3. So, this would likely be more quiet than the Explorer would in IM 22, but still it seems to be a very smooth machine. While I have learned how to ignore most of those high-tone falses on the Explorer -- experience with the machine now allows me to sort through the noise and hear the good stuff, it still takes some effort -- and the quieter, smoother E-Trac takes much LESS effort as a result. Again, a new, never-used-an-Explorer user would likely appreciate and prefer this. I ran the E in auto +3 today (was running manual 26 before); trash high, ground difficult, gain 24, variability 30, deep off, fast off. I still was not "wowed," and I think the target response was very similar on the two machines, but again -- I know a bit more about how to tweak the Explorer for good results than I do about tweaking the E-Trac, and so it's not a totally fair comparison. Also, as I mentioned, I have the benefit of some experience to know how to sort through alot of the "noisiness" of the Explorer, so the E-Trac's smoothness is not as important to me as it might be to a new Minelab user. Overall, at this point, I'd conclude that both are obviously very capable machines and I can see why there are fans of both. I will be interested to see how my opinions change as I use the E-Trac more.

Oh, one other thing -- like Bryce, I DO like the audio of the Explorer better. They are VERY similar, to my ears, but the only way I know of to describe it is that the higher tones are a bit "richer" or "warmer" on the Explorer, a bit "harsher" on the E-Trac. Very similar overall, though. If you know what to listen for on the Explorer, you'll also know what to listen for on the E-Trac.

Thanks all...

Steve

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Good honest opinions are very valuable!

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Interesting take, Charles. I agree the Explorer is very easy to set up for maximum performance; I also think I understand what you mean by "you have to trust the E-Trac to analyze the info, versus letting YOU analyze it" -- that involves the E-Trac "normalizing FE numbers of good targets to the 12 FE line" right? In other words, it tries to tell you what it thinks is a good target (giving it a "12" FE number), versus letting you figure it out based on your experience with the machine (in the case of the Explorer). But, what do you mean by "WAY more target information?" I assume this includes ID in pinpoint mode...

STeve

I will decide if a target is good or not and after digging untold thousands of targets trust me the machine knows far less than I do. For example why does the machine decide silver and gold targets are iron and position them way over on the iron side of the screen and tell me not to dig them when I know for a fact they are not iron or ferrous having confirmed this by digging gobs of them? I just need the machine to show me where on the ferrous and conductive axis a target hits and what it sounds like, leave the analysis to my human brain which is far more advanced than the machine. The Explorer does this quite well. The ETrac not so much.

Bounce patterns is something else that's lost with the ETrac that is quite useful when hunting deep coins with an Explorer.

Look at that nice big screen the give you with the ETrac, now consider how much of the screen is utterly wasted giving you information about iron/ferrous vs non-ferrous. Maybe 20% of the Explorer screen is devoted to iron/ferrous and I could make a case its far less than that.

Unfortunately I have to get going I'm off to the beach in a few minutes but this could be a long conversation.

Charles

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

Where do I begin here. The Ferous 12 line is just a way to spread out the coin targets wider for more info that is why the bigger screen on the ETRAC compared to the Explorers screen it's going from1- 50 now on the CONDUCTIVE range left to right instead of 1-30 like on Explorers so if the signals are all coins lets say and they spread out more in conductive numbers then you can tell a nickel from a dime from a quarter and a sliver dime will even be a number or possiably 2 higher than a clad dime and so will the tones as we can spread the tones out to 30 variability on the ETRAC giving a wider tone range. It has a multiplier of 2 over the Explorers settings on most all things yours 8 but 24 on ETRAC BUT they both fall above or below somewhere along that 12 line in ferous number instead of traveling up in a S shaped line on the Explorers so the numbers are more spread apart making it give you more info without FORCING you to decide so much, it makes it EASIER to for you decide. Your Explorers do the same sort of thing as a nickel won't be in the same left to right ferous position on the screen always but will be in aproximately the same conductive highth position on your screen along that S shaped curve that your signals fall on so you know it's probably a nickel despite where that ferous falls along left to right. The ETRAC simplifies things. The Ferous is now 1-35 going down the screen towards the bottom instead of 1-30 like on Explorers left to right so more range more info. NOW I'M not saying they always fall along the 12 fe line as like stated in Andy's book that Minelab built into the machine some depending on many things in the ground like wetnes nearby trash corrosin etc. will have way lower ferous numbers dropping to as low as 27 ferous acording to Andy's teats when the ETRAC was being beta tested before release so don't go by the ferous no. when hunting in CONDUCTIVE TONES as to wether or not it's a good target!! The difference is ETRAC goes left to right with increasing tones and more of both giving a broader range for the targets and the Explorers go bottom to top with less of a range.

Now Desi Dunne of Minelab has videos on their site and in Andy's 2 books I believe it states that the Explorers in Auto sensitivity will only lower the sensitivity down wards as the ground warrants it. The ETRAC in Auto sensitivity goes up and down and you can actually see this on the screen in real time taking place so you see if the ground is getting worse or better and the 3 channels and the 4th ground reference channel is NEW to the ETRAC the Explorers do it differently stated in Andy's book I believe it says onlu one channel for this function. You can set the EXPLORERS AUTO sensitivity number quite high like all the way to 30 maxed out to compensate for this and it will run it lower where it wants it to be BUT you won't know where that is as it could be 10 or 11 or even lower the factory is set at 16 in AUTO the ETRAC has no setting it PICKS IT ITSELF comparing those 4 channels together usually 17-18 and higher. I ended up slowly in manual lowering the Exlplorer 2 I had to smooth out the sounds from constant pops and a barrage of chatter like Desi Dunne shows on one of those videos at Minelab swinging it slowly and lowering from 30 sensitivity downwards while doing so till you get a pretty smooth quiet threshold on the Explorer for hunting and I ended up at 9-10 or 11 in manual on mine in the soil around here. So I thought better to set it to factory auto 16 and let it decide in case it could go up a bit but it won't go above 16 that it is set to. It's like the headlights in fog anology to high makes it worse instead of better.

Because of the changes it states in the books that the bounce effect is pretty much gone in the ETRAC because of the changes and the newer processor in it. As far as a bigger screen on the ETRAC goes why buy a bigger TV or computer screen when you can go watch a program on the old small screens of the past and get it all???? The ETRAC just gives you more info to analyze it doesn't have some mystical magical powers to analyze it for you if it did I'd be first in line to buy that machine and so would most others too.

If the sounds are harsher you have a couple settings in there on the ETRAC you can change to give it the same sound as the Explorers like changing the THRESHOLD SOUND number from factory preset of 15 higher or lower and it will change the whole range of all the conductive sounds upwards or downwards depending if your ear likes high or low sounds. ALSO there is normal long smooth and pitch hold in tones like on Explorers the different tone sounds you can opt for I can't remember right at this moment like 1 2 3 on the Explorers some change to. If you set the Etrac to FAST it clips the tones shorter as it recovers faster because of less filters being on in the machine.

The Etrac just makes it easier to find the tricky iffy ones don't make it harder it really is easier that was the whole point of this machine otherwise they wouldn't have listened to the field and come out with it since they had the SE. I notice people like the PRO coil they came out with on the ETRAC on the Explorers and it comes on the SE-PRO now too wonder why hum???

Steve your right on possiably trying to hard. Congrats on the silver too. The Etrac just makes it easier to find. The DEEP on setting just gives the machine a better read out on the conductive and ferous numbers on really deep fringe targets. When in doubt press one button on the face and go to the wide open quick mask screen and if THE CURSOR goes down to the lower 1/4 of the screen or the BOTTOM RIGHT HAND CORNER IT"S JUNK/IRON!!!!!!!!!! If it jumps up a bit trying to climb up into the middle portion area of the screen it is a dig me up. The Etrac is really a set it and forget it type machine you don't have to be changing settings it does the sensitivity for you it noise cancels for EMI push one button once and most put sounds and tones and variability to 30 like most run their Explorers on 10 on the settings maxed out then forget about it.

THAT FEROUS 12 LINE DON"T MEAN SQUAT only the CONDUCTIVE cursor positions and the CONDUCTIVE numbers on the screen and the TONEs sounds really mean anything when it comes to decide wether to dig or not along with depth too most of the time. Most only change one thing to FAST on if really trashy otherwise once set you don't have to change a thing just use the quick mask trick on questionable targets and save lots of usless iron digging it would have shown you it was iron nails.

 

[Elton]

Would you say that on US coins the Se series can and does do as good a job detecting....... Were sorta in the middle to upper catagory of conductive area correct ??

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

So far in the field the ETrac has come in 2nd place behind my Explorer SE with SE Pro coil. We were out last week going head to head on tiny targets and deeeeep coins, Etract got its share, it did well but could not match the Explorer on several targets.

 

[sgoss66]

This is great stuff, guys. Etrac Tom, thanks much for the advice. Using the E-Trac is definitely an interesting experiment...

Charles -- a question...can you elaborate on this statement you made?

For example why does the machine decide silver and gold targets are iron and position them way over on the iron side of the screen and tell me not to dig them when I know for a fact they are not iron or ferrous having confirmed this by digging gobs of them?

Can you give me an example of a silver target that your Explorer wants to put on the "iron side of the screen" (i.e. high FE numbers) that, instead, you know you need to dig? What is it that tells you you need to dig that target that your Explorer says is "iron?" I'm at the stage of learning now where I'm trying to learn to dig these "machine calls them iron but they are really silver" type targets, and it's been a "slow climb up the mountain" for me, in terms of learning how to do it. Yes, I can "look down" now, and see that I have "climbed quite aways up," but when I look up, that mountain peak still towers above me!

Steve

 

[Ray-Mo.]

So far in the field the ETrac has come in 2nd place behind my Explorer SE with SE Pro coil. We were out last week going head to head on tiny targets and deeeeep coins, Etract got its share, it did well but could not match the Explorer on several targets.

May be your soil conditions or any other number of factors causing this.However here in the midwest the result were the exact opposite with three longtime Explorer men's Explorers falling behind the E-Trac.So much so that all three got E-Tracs and sold the Explorers.Their old,deep coin count has went up dramatically with the E-Tracs and none of them even think about going back to the Explorers.

Just one thing alone can cause the E-Trac to find more good targets in a day and that is the fact that it is faster and will allow you to cover more ground well not to mention it is so much more stable so as not to give you a headache from all the falsing and ground noise at many sites.

The main reason many long time Explorer users struggle with the E-Trac is they try and force it to become an Explorer IIII.If they would just learn to operate the E-Trac in the way it was designed to be operated they would get much better results.

It often comes down to the old saying "It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks" I am afraid.That is why so many new to FBS folks are doing extremely well with the E-Trac.They do not struggle with the old "un-learning" curve.Rather they read the manual and often Andy's book and then go out and do well.

Of course if they knew way more than the E-Trac they might do even better

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

This is great stuff, guys. Etrac Tom, thanks much for the advice. Using the E-Trac is definitely an interesting experiment...

Charles -- a question...can you elaborate on this statement you made?

For example why does the machine decide silver and gold targets are iron and position them way over on the iron side of the screen and tell me not to dig them when I know for a fact they are not iron or ferrous having confirmed this by digging gobs of them?

Can you give me an example of a silver target that your Explorer wants to put on the "iron side of the screen" (i.e. high FE numbers) that, instead, you know you need to dig? What is it that tells you you need to dig that target that your Explorer says is "iron?" I'm at the stage of learning now where I'm trying to learn to dig these "machine calls them iron but they are really silver" type targets, and it's been a "slow climb up the mountain" for me, in terms of learning how to do it. Yes, I can "look down" now, and see that I have "climbed quite aways up," but when I look up, that mountain peak still towers above me!

Steve

I guess a picture is worth a thousand words so tomorrow I'll post a picture of some small targets I have been digging. Things that lurk on the dark (left) side include small gold and silver chains and clasps from chains, I have a habit of digging the lobster claw like clasps from silver chains. A couple days ago I got a piece of silver chain with just 2 little hoops and a tiny silver sandel post earing. About a week ago I got a 14k gold charm. The bad news...I also dug the tiny 3/16 inch round aluminum piece square tabs are attached to on pop cans, 1/8 inch split shot sinkers, 1/8 inch brass washers (they are thick) and all manner of bits of brass and copper and the dreaded fishermens jewelry e.g. barrel swivels and broken pieces of barrel swivels, snap locks etc. Not all of that is way left on the screen but the smaller and deeper bits are. I dug some what's its over there also after I switched to conduct tones. Found out where bobby pins hit now. I dug a staple, yeah the tiny kind you would staple a couple pieces of paper together with, it was unused. Incredibly I dug this tiny piece of wire, its .314 inch long and .035 inch thick I was stunned the machine could even detect it. Imagine me trying to find that in a pile of sand at night with a LED light...madening. lol

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

So far in the field the ETrac has come in 2nd place behind my Explorer SE with SE Pro coil. We were out last week going head to head on tiny targets and deeeeep coins, Etract got its share, it did well but could not match the Explorer on several targets.

May be your soil conditions or any other number of factors causing this.However here in the midwest the result were the exact opposite with three longtime Explorer men's Explorers falling behind the E-Trac.So much so that all three got E-Tracs and sold the Explorers.Their old,deep coin count has went up dramatically with the E-Tracs and none of them even think about going back to the Explorers.

Just one thing alone can cause the E-Trac to find more good targets in a day and that is the fact that it is faster and will allow you to cover more ground well not to mention it is so much more stable so as not to give you a headache from all the falsing and ground noise at many sites.

The main reason many long time Explorer users struggle with the E-Trac is they try and force it to become an Explorer IIII.If they would just learn to operate the E-Trac in the way it was designed to be operated they would get much better results.

It often comes down to the old saying "It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks" I am afraid.That is why so many new to FBS folks are doing extremely well with the E-Trac.They do not struggle with the old "un-learning" curve.Rather they read the manual and often Andy's book and then go out and do well.

Of course if they knew way more than the E-Trac they might do even better

I suppose its possible the ETrac is just not as good as the Explorer on a east coast saltwater beach, but it fared no better against the Explorer in the Pacific Northwest magnetic black sand either. Maybe your soil is the exception to the rule. Trust me as soon as I see an ETrac get a signal on a target I can't I'll own one, that's why we are doing head to head tests in the field. I have respect for the ETrac, I dug a real nice barber quarter with one that was being guarded by several pieces of iron, that earned my respect. It is a Minelab after all. But so far I find the most piece of crap signal I can get on my Explorer and let the ETrac folks try to tweak their machines to at least match it, the machines are close but the Explorer still latches on to a few targets beyond the ETrac's grasp. With more tweaking maybe that will change.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

May very well be the iron riden sand as I have not yet hunted salt beaches.It might take some work to get it to run well in those environments if possible.The E-Trac is a killer in my cut nail carpeted burnt town site from the CW.TTF in open screen pulls the goodies out like magic and some are tiny pieces of lead and harness brad washers at good depth.I had a V3 that was no where close to performing as well as my E-Trac except on micro gold jewelery.But then my AT Pro does as well at a third the price and it is water proof lol.

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

Are you running in Manual on the SE and they running in manual or Auto on the Etrac?? On beach sand do they have the GROUND setting set to NORMAL, when going to grassy areas inland use DIFFICULT. Try TRASH on HIGH then NORMAL over those targets if it's on NORMAL and it hits in the discriminated blacked out area on the Etrac it will just go null silent. Do they have some very little blacked out area on their discrimination screen like the RELICS PATTERN in presets compared to your SE screen, are you in IRON MASK or a discrimination screen?? The Etrac suprisingly likes SOME discrimination in order to function better on finding targets it's maybe written in the software programming of it. Are you from the WESTERN area of N.Y. you and I may know each other from earlier this decade/ latter part of the last decade when I used to go to a lot of metal detecting contests around the state and in the North East?? Last name Wilson possiably from around Medina area????

Really really really deep targets on the Etrac make a thunk sound thunk thunk when swinging over them but still ID well especially when DEEP is turned on.

Anyways this has been interesting to say the least. Whatever machine you feel is the best one for you and it's what you like and if it makes this wonderful hobby a great experience being outside with good friends and good times in the fresh air feeling good and healthy finding some great wonders of the past that is what it's really all about right??

Best to all Merry Christmas and a great find filled Happy New Year too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!