I have only one question relative to the upcoming Equinox. Some of you have been comparing the new Equinox to White's V3i Detector. I believe I read several year's ago when the V3i first came out that White's stated the V3i was not as sensitive (as deep) when you ran all three frequencies at the same time as when you ran the unit with only one of its frequencies. Will this be the same situation with the new Equinox??
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Equinox Depth
- Thread starter Cos
- Start date
nenadgbeepin
Member
I think Minelab have very good reasons to be giving users the option of running single frequency or Multi. As good as FBS is, the shortcomings of multi-freq (i.e. poor response to gold chains) is no secret.
I like having options, even if I set things up once and rarely touch them.
I like having options, even if I set things up once and rarely touch them.
I know one thing is for sure I need to stop coming here or I will have a deep hole in my pocket when this thing comes out, I swore black and blue I wouldn't get a ctx and it was in my hands the day it was released, did my 5+ years with it and went back to etrac for varying reasons..
and reality is I don't need another detector but would like to try this one just because I am a closet 705 fan and this seems like a big upgrade so bugga right
AJ
and reality is I don't need another detector but would like to try this one just because I am a closet 705 fan and this seems like a big upgrade so bugga right
AJ
Greg (E.Tn)
Well-known member
It's just money. 
mtwolf2270
Member
Time will tell the thing that I hate about the depth conversation is it depends on the soil conditions, mositure content and targets you are after. So, someone running a FBS in clean soil will have I'd and depth. In tougher or bad soil the depth will drop no matter the machine. Unless you run pulse but we are talking FBS and vlf. Now even in perfect soil single freq machines loose I'd a depth. So this option of muti iq gives you choices.
Jason in Enid
Active member
Cos said:
Like architex said, we just don't know yet. On the surface of the argument, yes, that sounds correct. The detector can only put out so much power through the coil. If you are running multiple freqs at the same time, they cant all have 100% power.
Will we be able to see a depth difference between multi and single? I for one plan on extensive testing on targets through all the freqs to find out.
IDXMonster
Well-known member
Greg (E.Tn) said:It's just money.
Amen!
sgoss66
Well-known member
Hey Cos --
I have seen some extremely impressive "depth" videos featuring the Equinox. As others have said, we won't know for sure until it's in our hands.
With that said, though, I do expect VERY good depth from the Equinox's "multi" mode. In the right soil (very mild), could one of the single frequencies be a bit deeper on some targets? Maybe, time will tell. But, do I expect the Equinox's "Multi-IQ" mode to be crippled, depth-wise, the way I have understood that the V3i is, when running multi-frequency mode? NO. I think anyone comparing the two will see a night-and-day difference...
Steve
I have seen some extremely impressive "depth" videos featuring the Equinox. As others have said, we won't know for sure until it's in our hands.
With that said, though, I do expect VERY good depth from the Equinox's "multi" mode. In the right soil (very mild), could one of the single frequencies be a bit deeper on some targets? Maybe, time will tell. But, do I expect the Equinox's "Multi-IQ" mode to be crippled, depth-wise, the way I have understood that the V3i is, when running multi-frequency mode? NO. I think anyone comparing the two will see a night-and-day difference...
Steve
dewcon4414
Well-known member
Jason.... I scratch my head every time I read... the EQ in multi will obsolete single freq. But its not as good as FBS. That means to me its nothing new.... FBS already does that better than the EQ. This was a good video to me. Moving water in the wet sand.
Jason in Enid
Active member
dewcon4414 said:
I'm not part of MLs advertising team, but I'll give it ago (even though I have said this before). ML never said the EQ would make single freqs obsolete. They said they would make all OTHER single freqs obsolete. So please list another single freq detector that do ALL of the following:
change freqs without changing coils
change between single and multi freqs
waterproof
works in saltwater without falsing or reducing sensitivity to surface finds
wireless headphones
rechargable
able to be run from USB power supply
Sounds to me like it is doing more than any other single freq detector ever made. So you don't like the word "obsolete", how about changing it instead to "antiquates". Antiques still work, even after theyve been replaced by more modern and more capable adaptions. Oops, that sounds a lot like "obsolete" to me.
mtwolf2270
Member
Ml also never said FBS does it better said FBS would have an avantage on high conductive targets. Advantage and better is a matter of opinion. I say this as a long time FBS user it has adavantage in clean ground. In hot or super trashy FBS can be crippled. So the slight advantage of FBS will prove to be theroy I predict.
sgoss66
Well-known member
dewcon,
The fact that you are "scratching your head" about the statements that "EQ will obsolete single freq. but it's not as good as FBS," is from my perspective completely understandable. You are scratching your head BECAUSE -- it really DOESN'T make any sense. You are spot on, and it's no wonder the statement is a "head scratcher" to you. It SHOULD be, for anyone who spends a little time thinking.
What do I mean by that?
I have said this several times before, in different posts on different forums...the only logical way to make sense of it, in MY mind, is to recognize that it is nothing more than MARKETING. While it's MARKETING to say that all other single frequency units will be "obsoleted," it's also marketing to say that "Multi-IQ will offer slightly less performance on silver than FBS."
Both of those statements CANNOT be true, at the same time -- and that, I think, is why you are rightfully scratching your head.
Here are the options as I see them...
Option 1. Minelab's "obsolete" statement is entirely B.S. -- pure, unsubstantiated nonsense designed entirely to generate sales.
I think this is unlikely; while I think "obsolete" is a bit "strong" of a word to use, I also think that were this unit not to prove to be a real-deal, high-end performer, Minelab would look really bad, and likely take a big "hit" in terms of customer dissatisfaction.
SO, if "obsolete," though perhaps a bit overstated, is not COMPLETE nonsense, then what?
Option 2. Minelab's "obsolete" statement is not about performance, per se, but more about the fact that the "whole package" (waterproof, wireless, lightweight, selectable single freq. OR multi freq. without changing coils, etc.), when considered "in it's entirety," is what "obsoletes" detectors that offer ONLY single frequency operation.
This is kind of what Jason was implying, I think, in his recent post. And I think this is a possibility; I think it is possible that PERFORMANCE, while "good," is not why Minelab is saying it "obsoletes" single frequency units. Instead, it's the Equinox's complete PACKAGE that makes running "just" a single-frequency-only machine "obsolete." But, I think this is a bit doubtful, too, because -- when Minelab says the Equinox "obsoletes," they immediately follow it up with discussion of MULTI-IQ, implying it is MULTI-IQ that they believe will obsolete other detectors that lack "Multi-IQ." Consider this, taken from Minelab's webpage, the Equinox Treasure Talk "Part 1" entry...
“EQUINOX obsoletes all single frequency VLF detectors”
Multi-IQ achieves a high level of target ID accuracy at depth much better than any single frequency detector can achieve, including switchable single frequency detectors that claim to be multi-frequency... etc. etc.
So it seems pretty clear to me that they are not saying "the Equinox has more features/options than other detectors, and thus it obsoletes the others," they are saying instead that "the Equinox -- with our new Multi-IQ technology -- obsoletes single-frequency-only detectors." It seems pretty clear, to me, that it is the PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT offered by Multi-IQ that they are touting...
Option 3. Finally, the last option...which is -- Minelab's "obsolete" statement really IS about performance -- that between selectable single frequencies AND Multi-IQ, the performance offered by the Equinox will "obsolete" single-frequency detectors.
So -- assuming THIS to be the most likely "meaning" behind Minelab's "obsolete" statement, and IF it is even close to being "true," then the only conclusion to be drawn (in my opinion) is that Multi-IQ will ALSO, INDEED, give FBS performance a run for it's money. Like I have said before, I truly do not believe -- given the high-quality, high-performance single-frequency units that have come on the market in the past decade or so -- that it would be even POSSIBLE to create a machine that performs so well, that it can "obsolete" those machines, without ALSO (perhaps inadvertently) challenging, or even surpassing, FBS performance in the process. There is NO WAY Minelab's engineers were tasked with coming up with a machine that offers cutting-edge performance, so as to "crush" the competition, and yet during the design process, these same engineers were being really, really careful while "crushing" the competition to "fall slightly under" the performance level of FBS. I say NONSENSE! If the engineers at Minelab did their jobs properly -- i.e. to create a unit that will surpass the competition in performance (and I believe they have), then there's little chance that they haven't -- in the process of doing so -- created something that puts FBS in danger of being "surpassed" as well.
AND THUS, all statements by Minelab which are trying to "qualify" their "obsolete" statements by saying "while the Equinox will obsolete everything single-freq. offered by other manufacturers, it WILL NOT obsolete our own machines" are in my strong opinion nothing more than pure marketing. It is simply the marketing department conjuring statements with the obvious, sole objective of hoping to keep the Equinox from entirely destroying sales of other, higher-priced units currently in Minelab's lineup (Safari, E-Trac, CTX, Excalibur II).
Bottom line, cutting through all of my long-windedness, my personal opinion (for what little that's worth) is that you are "scratching your head," dewcon, AS YOU SHOULD BE. Because, the statement makes no sense -- and thus, should be chalked up to being no more than marketing baloney!
Steve
The fact that you are "scratching your head" about the statements that "EQ will obsolete single freq. but it's not as good as FBS," is from my perspective completely understandable. You are scratching your head BECAUSE -- it really DOESN'T make any sense. You are spot on, and it's no wonder the statement is a "head scratcher" to you. It SHOULD be, for anyone who spends a little time thinking.
What do I mean by that?
I have said this several times before, in different posts on different forums...the only logical way to make sense of it, in MY mind, is to recognize that it is nothing more than MARKETING. While it's MARKETING to say that all other single frequency units will be "obsoleted," it's also marketing to say that "Multi-IQ will offer slightly less performance on silver than FBS."
Both of those statements CANNOT be true, at the same time -- and that, I think, is why you are rightfully scratching your head.
Here are the options as I see them...
Option 1. Minelab's "obsolete" statement is entirely B.S. -- pure, unsubstantiated nonsense designed entirely to generate sales.
I think this is unlikely; while I think "obsolete" is a bit "strong" of a word to use, I also think that were this unit not to prove to be a real-deal, high-end performer, Minelab would look really bad, and likely take a big "hit" in terms of customer dissatisfaction.
SO, if "obsolete," though perhaps a bit overstated, is not COMPLETE nonsense, then what?
Option 2. Minelab's "obsolete" statement is not about performance, per se, but more about the fact that the "whole package" (waterproof, wireless, lightweight, selectable single freq. OR multi freq. without changing coils, etc.), when considered "in it's entirety," is what "obsoletes" detectors that offer ONLY single frequency operation.
This is kind of what Jason was implying, I think, in his recent post. And I think this is a possibility; I think it is possible that PERFORMANCE, while "good," is not why Minelab is saying it "obsoletes" single frequency units. Instead, it's the Equinox's complete PACKAGE that makes running "just" a single-frequency-only machine "obsolete." But, I think this is a bit doubtful, too, because -- when Minelab says the Equinox "obsoletes," they immediately follow it up with discussion of MULTI-IQ, implying it is MULTI-IQ that they believe will obsolete other detectors that lack "Multi-IQ." Consider this, taken from Minelab's webpage, the Equinox Treasure Talk "Part 1" entry...
“EQUINOX obsoletes all single frequency VLF detectors”
Multi-IQ achieves a high level of target ID accuracy at depth much better than any single frequency detector can achieve, including switchable single frequency detectors that claim to be multi-frequency... etc. etc.
So it seems pretty clear to me that they are not saying "the Equinox has more features/options than other detectors, and thus it obsoletes the others," they are saying instead that "the Equinox -- with our new Multi-IQ technology -- obsoletes single-frequency-only detectors." It seems pretty clear, to me, that it is the PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT offered by Multi-IQ that they are touting...
Option 3. Finally, the last option...which is -- Minelab's "obsolete" statement really IS about performance -- that between selectable single frequencies AND Multi-IQ, the performance offered by the Equinox will "obsolete" single-frequency detectors.
So -- assuming THIS to be the most likely "meaning" behind Minelab's "obsolete" statement, and IF it is even close to being "true," then the only conclusion to be drawn (in my opinion) is that Multi-IQ will ALSO, INDEED, give FBS performance a run for it's money. Like I have said before, I truly do not believe -- given the high-quality, high-performance single-frequency units that have come on the market in the past decade or so -- that it would be even POSSIBLE to create a machine that performs so well, that it can "obsolete" those machines, without ALSO (perhaps inadvertently) challenging, or even surpassing, FBS performance in the process. There is NO WAY Minelab's engineers were tasked with coming up with a machine that offers cutting-edge performance, so as to "crush" the competition, and yet during the design process, these same engineers were being really, really careful while "crushing" the competition to "fall slightly under" the performance level of FBS. I say NONSENSE! If the engineers at Minelab did their jobs properly -- i.e. to create a unit that will surpass the competition in performance (and I believe they have), then there's little chance that they haven't -- in the process of doing so -- created something that puts FBS in danger of being "surpassed" as well.
AND THUS, all statements by Minelab which are trying to "qualify" their "obsolete" statements by saying "while the Equinox will obsolete everything single-freq. offered by other manufacturers, it WILL NOT obsolete our own machines" are in my strong opinion nothing more than pure marketing. It is simply the marketing department conjuring statements with the obvious, sole objective of hoping to keep the Equinox from entirely destroying sales of other, higher-priced units currently in Minelab's lineup (Safari, E-Trac, CTX, Excalibur II).
Bottom line, cutting through all of my long-windedness, my personal opinion (for what little that's worth) is that you are "scratching your head," dewcon, AS YOU SHOULD BE. Because, the statement makes no sense -- and thus, should be chalked up to being no more than marketing baloney!
Steve
sorry couldn't help myself
dewcon4414
Well-known member
Steve....... i believe your comments in #2 also describes why they say they arent better than FBS.......... simply put more features with a bit more information. BUT.....the EQ has its advantages as well....... like being lighter and MORE freq which allow you hunt and find targets the FBS cant. Simple for water hunting and is water tight......no batteries to remove which was causing a lot of repairs. Performance....... well we will see if FBS is better soon.... id like to be impressed. Good solid comments Steve
Dew
Dew
sgoss66
Well-known member
Dew --
You make a good point there. There's no doubt that the E-Trac, and especially the CTX, offer far more "bells and whistles," and so it could easily be said by a "marketer," from that perspective, that the Equinox "is not as good as" FBS. Minelab has certainly positioned themselves such that a couple of years down the road, they can put out a Multi-IQ-based "flagship," (as others have speculated)...complete with all the bells and whistles. (And you can bet the marketing department WILL be willing to then say that Multi-IQ surpasses FBS!)
Bottom line, as we've all been saying, is it's all useless speculation, until we get them in our hands and put some "in the field hours" on them. It shouldn't be too much longer now...
Steve
You make a good point there. There's no doubt that the E-Trac, and especially the CTX, offer far more "bells and whistles," and so it could easily be said by a "marketer," from that perspective, that the Equinox "is not as good as" FBS. Minelab has certainly positioned themselves such that a couple of years down the road, they can put out a Multi-IQ-based "flagship," (as others have speculated)...complete with all the bells and whistles. (And you can bet the marketing department WILL be willing to then say that Multi-IQ surpasses FBS!)
Bottom line, as we've all been saying, is it's all useless speculation, until we get them in our hands and put some "in the field hours" on them. It shouldn't be too much longer now...
Steve