Encourage me to keep my new GT!

[cabochris]

Hi, I recently purchased a new GT. My thinking was that since I use Excaliburs for water hunting, the GT would be similar at the beach. I like the new GT rod and chest mount configuration and was planning on getting a larger coil such as a WOT for beach use. Despite having lots of success with Excaliburs I now am wondering about the GT, my first Sov. In my yard the GT seems to be real slow and ground noisy. I am use to my MXT which nails targets quickly, even with 12" Hot Shot coil. The MXT meter locks right on. The GT meter seems not able to quite make up its mind? Plus it has to be calibrated and checked with each use! Not so on the MXT. Plus the MXT hits gold nuggets much better than the GT!

Despite this I want to believe that BBS technology will give me the edge on land, like it has in the water. But so far I have not seen any evidence that the GT performs any better than MXT in my yard. So should I work with the GT or stick with what I know for my land hunting. I sort of had mainly beach hunting in mind with the GT, but perhaps a pulse machine is the way to go for that? I also had thought the GT was sort of like my MXT, only better in the salt! But again for prospecting the MXT seems better.

I know this is long but I have one more thought. I like ML technology. However, it does seem slow to use. One must swing the coil slow. At times this makes me feel like a snail! Does all the ML technology really find things other detectors walk right over? If yes, then I'll keep the GT and learn it. If the answer is not really, then perhaps I'll stick with more conventional detector technology for land hunting. Thanks for your thought on this. CC.

I also now wonder if I should replace my GT with a Quattro, which I hear gets unbelievable depth at the beach?

 

[Rick(ND)]

The Sovereign takes some time to get used to as it is different than your MXT by quite a bit. The MXT is a great detector and I have one myself for the wife to use, she gets more by the end of the day too than I do with the Sovereigns, but hers is the newer stuff with a few older finds where mine is more of the deeper and older finds. The MXT I can go fast with and it is so easy and fun to use too, but if I want to detect some of the older parks and site I grab my GT or the Explorer to pick up those deeper coins others can not find.
As you see for land hunting there is a lot of signals compared to the beach, so you have to sort these out with the tones and meter reading with the GT. As you see the GT likes to null a lot and that is because it sees so much more iron than you may be used to, being it see this it also will see the good targets in with this too. This is why it seems to be a slower working detector so it can see everything and give you the info with the meter readings and tones and let you decide what to dig and what not too. This all takes time to learn and take some patience too. With the Quattro it is a much steeper learning curve and feel you will have to go slower yet and recheck more for land hunting.
If you want to hunt clad and coins not too deep the MXT would be my choice, but if you want to find the deeper coins and good targets and want to spend the time to fully understand the detector the Sovereign or the Explorers are the ones I find and many others do to will do the job. Just look at which detectors is finding deeper and the better finds on the forums.Many of these were found at sites that have been hit hard by other detectors.

Rick

 

[ikon]

rumor has it rick that when you and your mrs. go out detecting you go out the night before and plant a whole bunch of coins then the next day when you guys hit the park you tell her to go over{ where you planted the coins} in that direction and hunt while you go looking for the deep ones . lololololol , just kiddin" i couldnt resist.
no offence,
stan pa.

 

[Wirechief]

Hello Rick and I am wondering what seems to be the average depth of these older coins since they are beyond the reach of the average detector. Chris hang onto that GT, I'm going through the same thing myself but I know Minelab designed and built the GT for good reason. I know it should go deep. I have the WOT on this GT and so still learning. Take care guys and God Bless !

Wirechief, CET

 

[bill(de)]

I feel it takes more than 1 detector to hunt inland as there are more variables than at the shore.

I hunt in phases depending on the site and how long i have to hunt that site and there are so many site variations that no single detector can do it all efficiently.

My first phase is to quick scan at various angles with an XLT using a coil size proportionate to site size and try to determine the scale of trash to treasure and recover whatever i can.

Phase 2 either uses the XLT with smaler coils or a 2 filter target ID detector with various coil sizes to help with target separation and includes trash removal especially at a productive site.

Phase 3 is slower detail hunting, using whatever detector that works at that site and especially searching for deeper targets.This is where i'm finding the Sovereign shines along with my Minelab Advantage.Once i find the older deeper targets it's either or until i get into the iron and very bad ground then prefer the GT .

Would i use the Sovereign GT at a trash infested high target area as my first choice ? NOPE

Would i use the Sovereign GT for Quick cherry picking at a large site ? Nope

Would i use the Sovereign GT for searching deeper targets in mineralized ground,or iron infested sites ,or sites with hot or cold rocks ? Yep because i've found stuff that other detectors just couldn't pickup on

Are there other detectors that will find deep stuff in tough conditions.Yep But are they as versatile. And look at all the coils available for the Sovereign, that wasn't by mistake.

Just my opinions and not an expert by any stretch but learned enough to recognize a valuable asset to my detecting arsenal. HH Bill

 

[Aaron]

I just got my GT almost 2 weeks ago, and I know what you are saying. Getting used to the pinpoint is the hardest thing for me. I am coming from my 1265x which is a excellent pinpointing machine, and you can keep narrowing it down to make it smaller. But I have heard you dont have to bother switching it to pinpoint. Just get it centered at the top of the coil, then back it off till it disappears, it wll be right at the top of the coil. In the instructions it says that in pinpoint mode the target will continue to get smaller as you wave the coil over it (I think this is bunk), making it easier to pinpoint, however this is not what I have experienced. I would like someone to comment on this because I dont see alot of difference in target size in disc. & pinpoint. But again, I only have around 20 hrs on mine, and that was all at the beach in Mexico last week.
Regarding depth, I was finding qaurters dimes , and peso coins (quarter size) at least a foot, and they all souded clear as a bell. If you check out my post (Finds in Mexico), I found that old beatup toy truck over a foot down, and under a rock! And it sounded off very loud. Thats one thing I will say regarding depth, I think it works too good. I just dont know how to just the depth by the sound yet. I didnt have a meter or probe, and that would helped. With the wether being what it is up here in Michigan (22 above windchill) I am not able use it much right now. Thats just my 2 cents worth, Aaron

 

[ikon]

hey wirechief, read your post and just had to jump in on this. i think as far as mineabs go they are deepseeking machines. i have an explorer and there are time when i come across a target and it sounds kind of deep then i look at the depth meter and its nailed at the bottom of the chart ill go to myself oh boy here we go. if i dig about 5 or 6 3inches by 10 inches deep holes i start getting pretty worn out. i cant wait to really see how the GT goes after the deep stuff also but from what im hearing and reading it'll get down there. gotta love minelabs.

stan pa.

 

[Rick(ND)]

It is tempting, but she find enough the way it is.

 

[Rick(ND)]

This is something that you get the depth once you learn the Sovereign as some of these are not classic signals. I will say with the GT I seem to get more classic signals though than the older Sovereigns.
A classic signal is those that have the good tones and the right meter readings and most are within 8 inches. The ones that are not are those that you have to go slower to hear them as they are smaller and just a change in threshold. Now when you work these signals doing the Sovereign wiggle the tone and numbers on the meter will start to climb, sometime they will make it to the correct ones, some times just for a split second and some you just know they are trying to make it, but cant as they are so deep. Like I say these are deep and you have to go real slow sometimes to even get a tone change. I feel the more you use this detector the more you will learn and understand it. Now when you do get to one of these old parks that are worked out so most all the new stuff is gone, now you can concentrate on the weaker signal and I look for an areas where I feel could be good and then go very very slow (maybe move the coil 4 inches per second) and listen to the threshold change and do the Sovereign wiggle on any positive signals trying to get the tones and number to climb.
Now as far as depth my deepest coin was a barber quarter at 13-14 inches deep with the Sun Ray S12 coil around a old merry go round in a old park, got a couple of merc and Wheaties too around it that were 10-11 inches deep too, but had to go slow to hear them in with the trash. I know it took over 2 hours to go around it.
Also at another park that is very old I was challenged to find one old coin this guy missed with his detector, got over 55 old plus a few new ones in my 18-20 hours there in a week, but had to go very slow and most never got the correct meter readings, but could tell it was something good by the tones and the meter reading trying to climb. These were mostly at 10-12 inches deep.
Now with the GT I find I can get the correct meter readings on my Sun Ray DTI meter on most of these deep ones by doing the Sovereign wiggle over them. I also like I say in another post I used to get fooled a little more on iron with the GT until I found out that by checking the signal from a different angle I can tell if it is iron or not. The GT seems to be more sensitive for me and better depth too.
Like I say most of what I have learned on the Sovereign come from experience of using the Sovereign and the more you use it the more you will understand it.
Go slower than normal in area you know may have deeper targets and dig all positive ones that repeat and that the tone and meter is trying to climb, you will be impressed. One more thing if you are going for the deep one, make sure you have a S1 probe as some of these signals once you open the ground up will be gone, but the S1 will find them.

Here is the picture I posted before on some of the coins I found on that challange at the old park that were deep.
[attachment 15615 scanner053.jpg]

 

[Rick(ND)]

You are running the switch in pinpoint right and then switch to all metal to do your pinpointing? It is easier to pinpoint this way as it does make the signal smaller, but it will not keep shrinking it as you go over it. If you have problem pinpointing i find a way that works great for me and those signals that are iffy too. I find the target in disc I want to dig and will switch to all metal being my pinpoint switch is in pinpoint and go side to side with the coil and center the target just going side to side, not forward and backwards. Now that I have it centered I know my target is anywhere from the tip to the heal of the coil, so now i will push the coil to the ground so it don't move off that spot and turn 90 degrees and go side to side again to center the target, when centered this time if you did it right your target will be right under the very center of the coil. Now if this was a iffy signal before I will hold the coil still and switch back to disc and just wiggle the coil a little and if the tones starts to climb I will be digging, if it nulls than it is probably iron falsing.
Give it a try and see what you think, just remember to center it one way, keep the coil in this spot and turn 90 degrees and center again and target will be right under the very center of the coil.
Good Luck!
Rick

 

[Aaron]

Rick,
thanks for your response, I find your posts really helpful, and even been printing them off to keep reveiwing them. Its obvious you know what you are talking about.
When I am hunting I have the toggles in DISC. & FIX. I then flip the toggle into PINPOINT, when I get a target. I cant wait to try your pinpointing technique once the ground up here in Michigan thaws, all I can do for not is hunt in the snow at the sledding hill, and find surface targets and practice on my tones.
I am not new to detecting, however, I just recently got back into it, and would appreciate any advice I can get.

What band do you keep the NOISE CANCEL IN?
What is the Sovereign wiggle?
What is a WOT coil?
I have a really big old park hear 2 miles from my house,infact there was a battle fought between the British and Colonists, alot of silver has been found there. I am looking forward to trying out your techniques, but it seems none of you guys use the stock coils that come with your detectors. Whats so special about your Sunray coil versus the Toroado?. I have my 10 & 8 inch Tornado coils, I thought the 10 inch was good enough and I would use the 8 inch for the trashy areas, am I wrong?
I ordered a Sunray Super Probe and A Digi-Meter.
Sorry for the long post, not sure how us new guys would get along without this forum. Thanks, Aaron

 

[Rick(ND)]

Aaron,

You can leave that switch in pinpoint and just switch the disc to all metal when you pinpoint. The fixed, track and pinpoint are only activated when you are in the all metal mode and I find the only time I use the all metal mode if for pinpointing a target.
I run my noise cancel in freq 2 as I find this works better plus my nickles will read the right numbers on the meter, in freq 1 nickles will read 3 or 4 numbers higher then normal. Another toggle is the silent search which myself leave off as I like the threshold that will let me hear the nulls and any change in the threshold to let me know the GT has seen a target whether good or bad. This will also let me know if I am going to fast as a solid null means I have the sensitivity too high or swinging the coil too fast.
On the Sovereign wiggle you will find this is what many call it as it looks like you are wiggling the coil over a suspected target. What it is when we get a slight tone change on a target we think is a good sounding tone while in disc we will try to squeeze the best tone we can out of it by going just over this target or area. This is just over the target trying to get the tone to climb and being it is just over this area you may be moving the coil only a inch at the most back and forth trying to get that tone and numbers on the meter to climb to the correct ones, so it looks like you are just wiggling the coil on top of the ground. This is what we call the Sovereign wiggle and once you have used it a bit and have some experience with the Sovereign you will see this come natural when you swing the coil over any target as only a couple of passes over any tone changes you will know it is is a target you want to check out or not further. There is a lot of tone changes when you swing the coil over the ground but a few tones will make you you want to swing back over them one or 2 times and do the Sovereign wiggle over them.
As far as coils goes the stock 10 inch coil that come with the GT is a great coil, but feel for anyone starting out the 8 inch is the better choice to help learn the Sovereigns as you have less target under the coil at one time, so it will be easier to tell the good from bad and for pinpointing. The coil I learned with is the older 8 inch coinsearch coil which I still have and use and the picture I posted of those deep park find were with the 8 inch Coinsearch coil, but in the last year on my GT I only used the stock 10 inch coil and a few I was doing test with. The 5 inch coils are great for heavy trash area we work and they do great, the 12 inch coil is made more for the open areas where we need the coverage and harder to use in trashy area, but seen if you go slow it works good in moderate trash. The 15 inch WOT is a great coil, but more for beach hunting and it makes the Sovereign feel heavy. I have tried the WOT several times for my park hunting and find it is not a coil I would use and found the best of the bigger coil is the S 12 of Sun Rays. If you have the 8 and the 10 inch Tornado coil you have a good pair of coils and will do a great job and no reason to change at this time, but as you get to know your Sovereign and feel you need more ground coverage then the S12 would be a good choice. If you are going to hunt some real trashy sites the 8 inch coil you have will work OK, but will be harder to separate targets and you have to go slower, so then you may want to try a S5 inch coil.
If you got the S1 probe and the Digisearch meter you have a great set up the way it is with the 2 coils and once you get to know the GT better you may want to try a different coil depending on you hunting areas, but for now stick with what you have and get to know it.

Sounds like you have a great site to try and I am sure it has been gone over many times, so this is where knowing your Sovereign and going slow may get you some finds the others have missed.

Good luck and wish spring would hurry up and get here.

Rick

 

[Gonzo]

Rick,
Again you provide so much insight. I was having a tough time with pinpoint as well and will try all of the above.

Thanks, Gonzo

p.s. I am trying to get my wife to give up some of that cheap gold jewelry I gave her 23 years ago, so I can bury it on the beach and then "find it" and have my daughters dig it up for me LOL.

I figure that will get them to stay with me on the beach, and do all my digging LOL They are heading into the teenage years, and I need every trick in the book to get them to spend thier time with me and Mom, apparently I am not as "cool" as I was a couple years ago LOL

 

[Aaron]

Thanks alot for the indepth response Rick.
Cant wait to try your advice. One other question, this weekend its suppose to snow up here. So I will go to the big tobogan hill in the A.M. before anyone shows up to look for surface targets. Should I set my sensitivty all the way down, or keep the coil higher? Thats what I usually do, the snow is pretty packed down from the night before, so the coins are not likely to be very deep. I usually find $5 in change, alot of it grouped together, qaurters galore. Its a good opportunity to practice on my pinpointing and tones. Thanks again, Aaron

 

[Rick(ND)]

You don't really need the depth as these sound like surface coins you are going after. This way the GT will run smoother too and you can even go faster too, in fact you may even want to switch to the silent search too being you are not looking for depth.

Good luck

Rick

 

[Aaron]

Okay, great..thaks alot...again! I will let you know how I do. Aaron

 

[ikon]

tell me this. does the auto sens. work the same way has the auto sens. on a explorer ? most guys will run their explorers in manual because they will lose depth. ive read if i had my auto sens. say set at 22 on my explorer that if ground conditions aren't right i could at times be dropping down to like 10 sens. at times. am i thinking right on this with the GT ?

stan pa.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Stan,

I will run mine in manual most of the time and rare for auto on the Sovereign, but I do when I am not worried about depth and more concerned about a smooth threshold so I can swing my coil faster.
On the Explorer I have seen where 32 auto will not pick up a dime on top of the ground unless you touch it with the coil. Drop it down to 16 auto and it has a good 5 or more inches of depth and at 20-24 manual it has over 6 inches of depth, but not a very stable detector. The reason was the area was trashier than normal and the sensitivity over compensates when running a higher sensitivity I feel.
Now with the Sovereigns most used to say they could see no difference in auto or manual other than auto has a smoother threshold, but as they got experienced and tried manual more and seen it wasn't as stable but could still understand it, they could see why many of us like the manual for the depth it gets as it does go deeper in manual. I now recommend auto until you know your Sovereign, then go to manual after you know it as It make learning it easier. I also see where most that know the Sovereign are ruining the sensitivity in around the 11 o'clock position as it seem to work about the best there.

Rick

 

[Art (NWOH)]

You may have a typo in that last sentence.

HH

 

[ikon]