Critterhunter
New member
First, further compiled field reports from others, pics for size comparison, opinions on the performance potential of the coil in depth and unmasking in heavy trash, and other such info on the 8
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Eight Inch Tornado (Actual Size 7.25" ) 800 Coil Field Reports/Testing, Starting With Size Comparison Pics & Weights To Other Coils...
- Thread starter Critterhunter
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Might as well throw a few more pics from others on the size of this coil to others, and also that picture I drew up of how an "odd" sized coil like this might be small enough to see between a ring of trash, and yet big enough to get a deep coin that a smaller coil than it might not be able to...
8 And 10" Tornados Side By Side Somebody Had Posted A While Back...
[attachment 257635 8and10inchTornado.jpg]
Old Minelab 8" Coinsearch Coil Size Comparison To The Smaller Tornado...
[attachment 257636 coinsearchand8inchTornado.jpg]
Picture Demonstrating Both Depth And Size Advantages This Coil Might Find A "Niche" For Between Smaller And Bigger Coils In Terms Of Depth & Separation (Unmasking)...
[attachment 257637 EIGHTINCHTORNADOSPOTENTIAL.jpg]
8 And 10" Tornados Side By Side Somebody Had Posted A While Back...
[attachment 257635 8and10inchTornado.jpg]
Old Minelab 8" Coinsearch Coil Size Comparison To The Smaller Tornado...
[attachment 257636 coinsearchand8inchTornado.jpg]
Picture Demonstrating Both Depth And Size Advantages This Coil Might Find A "Niche" For Between Smaller And Bigger Coils In Terms Of Depth & Separation (Unmasking)...
[attachment 257637 EIGHTINCHTORNADOSPOTENTIAL.jpg]
I've been out a couple of times with my 8" Tornado. I have been detecting a park that I have really hit very hard the last 6 years. One section of the park holds lots of coin and is kinda clean. However, another section where they hold a lot of rallies is pure torture. Tons of pulltabs and slaw. I did work some coins out of there with the old X-70. But, it was a long tedious process. Working on getting up the courage, (LOL) to hit that section with the 8" and see how well this little one seperates. Gotta wait though, the weatherman says possible snow tonight!! He's gotta be wrong , this is New Mexico!
Critter,what I like about this coil is the sweep speed can be faster and still hit very hard on dime size targets.The little 800 coil can pick out climbing targets very well.(Deep targets that require a wiggle to lock on) Good Luck HH Ron
Neil
Well-known member
If my memory is serving me correctly, the Slimline name was on the musky advantage coils and also on the original Explorer SE coil. That explorer coil is still a favorite with me and I never understood why it was so disliked. Its got the same thin profile as the 10" Tornado coil and I always found it to go deep and be very stable.
You are correct on the older, smaller BBS and newer smaller Tornado coils, both measure in at 7.25". I do wish minelab had made the change on their smaller FBS coil to the slimmer Tornado style, it really doesn make a difference in feel when your hunting.
Even though the smaller older BBS coils are heavier they can be a good value if you get one cheap and also just remove the coil cover, spray on some bed liner and your good to go. The real heavier weight is on the larger BBS coils, those are beasts to swing for any length of time.
Good luck with your new coil
You are correct on the older, smaller BBS and newer smaller Tornado coils, both measure in at 7.25". I do wish minelab had made the change on their smaller FBS coil to the slimmer Tornado style, it really doesn make a difference in feel when your hunting.
Even though the smaller older BBS coils are heavier they can be a good value if you get one cheap and also just remove the coil cover, spray on some bed liner and your good to go. The real heavier weight is on the larger BBS coils, those are beasts to swing for any length of time.
Good luck with your new coil
Critterhunter
New member
Wasn't real happy with the pics I took due to the poor lighting and such, so figured I'd take another picture for size perspective of this coil to others I had handy at the moment, this time all laying side by side...
From left to right, Sun Ray S-12 (12.5"), Detech SEF 12x10, Minelab 10" Tornado (On an Excalibur), and Minelab 7.25" Tornado 800...
[attachment 257692 All.jpg]
From left to right, Sun Ray S-12 (12.5"), Detech SEF 12x10, Minelab 10" Tornado (On an Excalibur), and Minelab 7.25" Tornado 800...
[attachment 257692 All.jpg]
Critterhunter
New member
Ron, will be interesting to see how fast the 800 Tornado will allow me to sweep. I've found the 12x10 seems to allow me to sweep much faster in my soil and in fact often gives best depth doing what I'd call a medium Whites speed, while if I slow down and do a long "hunting for next target" over the undug deep target I've found, the Minelab snails pace crawl of say 4 seconds per sweep will simply not even see the target. Not sure if this is particular to the 12x10, or if it's in fact my soil, because I've found the same deal with other coils too at sites. Honestly though been so long since I've used the 10" Tornado on land that don't really remember if it's the case for it too.
You know what, I think sooner or later here I'll do a video comparing all the coils in general long sweeps like I didn't know the target was there, on a deep fringe depth target before digging. Could be interesting to see if changes in coils changes the speed wanted for best depth?
Also, will probably try full max sensitivity in a low EMI environment trying that, and then lowering the sensitivity to like 3PM and then re-doing the test, because I've found and also have heard others say in the past that sensitivity level seems to change the desired sweep speed for some. IE: Riding the high edge of stability = slower sweep needed for best depth, while riding a low sensitivity setting = faster sweep needed. I've seemed to see this happen for me, but not so much with the 12x10.
Seems even riding the edge of stability with a high sensitivity setting I still seem to get best depth with a medium like speed. Even at a few sites I'd see how fast I could go with that long sweep before the target would vanish, and was shocked to see I could whip the coil in a long sweep across it like I was launching a golf ball and it still hit hard, while when I slowed down to the Minelab crawl the target would just vanish. Doing a video on this coil choice/sensitivity setting might be real interesting, but it'll have to wait for better weather here.
Of course all this swing speed stuff for people might just be based on their particular minerals. I have no doubt for some a crawl gives best depth. Remember for one a guy who said in his iron rich coil the GT at a crawl would null out, but yet it seemed to provide best depth, where his other flagship detectors couldn't even see targets that deep in his soil. Something "special" about BBS I suspect in certain mineralized soils/sands, where it's lower frequency bias scale range might help it penetrate certain minerals and provide rock solid stability.
I know I can't get over my GT's depth and stability in my soils/sands, and that's using the stock 10" Tornado even when I first got it. At one site in one hole I got a perfect ID/strong tone for a penny, and in another hole same deal for a nickel. On both of these that day I dug down about 9 or 10" and still no target was being heard by my Pro Pointer. I *ALMOST* gave up on those two holes thinking for sure it was large trash in both due to how strong the hits were. Well, both shocked me with an indian in one and a v-nickel in the other at I would say about roughly 11 to 11.5"!
Man, I can honestly say I have never dug a coin that deep in this soil with all the machines I ever owned over the years. The soil at this site was perfect in moisture that day for the best halo around the coins. In dry conditions I've struggled with coins 8 or 9" deep in this same site using the Tornado, but the 12x10 will bang those much more "effortlessly" at that site, so I suspect if I hit that place with the 12x10 on the right day I'll be punching even deeper coins than the Tornado was able to do that one day early on in my GT ownership.
I've found that too wet of soil can have just as much trouble with depth on coins as too dry can. Seems to wash out the electralysis process that creates the halo around the coins. When two disimilar metals in the coin or in the coin compared to the microscopic metals/minerals in the soil are in contact via moist conditions, an electrical circuit is created, thus the halo effect in some respects I believe.
Only in the wet sand does too wet not seem to hurt the depth of my GT, but in too wet soil (at least my soil), where the hole will say fill with water when you dig it, seems the depth is about what happens in super dry conditions, but then again even these depths are still outstanding on the GT with the stock 10" coil, and even more outstanding with the 12x10 IMO.
You know what, I think sooner or later here I'll do a video comparing all the coils in general long sweeps like I didn't know the target was there, on a deep fringe depth target before digging. Could be interesting to see if changes in coils changes the speed wanted for best depth?
Also, will probably try full max sensitivity in a low EMI environment trying that, and then lowering the sensitivity to like 3PM and then re-doing the test, because I've found and also have heard others say in the past that sensitivity level seems to change the desired sweep speed for some. IE: Riding the high edge of stability = slower sweep needed for best depth, while riding a low sensitivity setting = faster sweep needed. I've seemed to see this happen for me, but not so much with the 12x10.
Seems even riding the edge of stability with a high sensitivity setting I still seem to get best depth with a medium like speed. Even at a few sites I'd see how fast I could go with that long sweep before the target would vanish, and was shocked to see I could whip the coil in a long sweep across it like I was launching a golf ball and it still hit hard, while when I slowed down to the Minelab crawl the target would just vanish. Doing a video on this coil choice/sensitivity setting might be real interesting, but it'll have to wait for better weather here.
Of course all this swing speed stuff for people might just be based on their particular minerals. I have no doubt for some a crawl gives best depth. Remember for one a guy who said in his iron rich coil the GT at a crawl would null out, but yet it seemed to provide best depth, where his other flagship detectors couldn't even see targets that deep in his soil. Something "special" about BBS I suspect in certain mineralized soils/sands, where it's lower frequency bias scale range might help it penetrate certain minerals and provide rock solid stability.
I know I can't get over my GT's depth and stability in my soils/sands, and that's using the stock 10" Tornado even when I first got it. At one site in one hole I got a perfect ID/strong tone for a penny, and in another hole same deal for a nickel. On both of these that day I dug down about 9 or 10" and still no target was being heard by my Pro Pointer. I *ALMOST* gave up on those two holes thinking for sure it was large trash in both due to how strong the hits were. Well, both shocked me with an indian in one and a v-nickel in the other at I would say about roughly 11 to 11.5"!
Man, I can honestly say I have never dug a coin that deep in this soil with all the machines I ever owned over the years. The soil at this site was perfect in moisture that day for the best halo around the coins. In dry conditions I've struggled with coins 8 or 9" deep in this same site using the Tornado, but the 12x10 will bang those much more "effortlessly" at that site, so I suspect if I hit that place with the 12x10 on the right day I'll be punching even deeper coins than the Tornado was able to do that one day early on in my GT ownership.
I've found that too wet of soil can have just as much trouble with depth on coins as too dry can. Seems to wash out the electralysis process that creates the halo around the coins. When two disimilar metals in the coin or in the coin compared to the microscopic metals/minerals in the soil are in contact via moist conditions, an electrical circuit is created, thus the halo effect in some respects I believe.
Only in the wet sand does too wet not seem to hurt the depth of my GT, but in too wet soil (at least my soil), where the hole will say fill with water when you dig it, seems the depth is about what happens in super dry conditions, but then again even these depths are still outstanding on the GT with the stock 10" coil, and even more outstanding with the 12x10 IMO.
Critterhunter
New member
Neil, I was never a fan of the various 10" Minelab coils I had on my Explorers in my soil, but that's a topic for another day. Mainly wanted to ask- You mean the 8" Minelab FBS coils aren't the modern Tornado style in weight/thickness, but instead are still using the old BBS style weight/casing material for those? If so, wow....Thought for sure the last time I saw the 8" FBS Minelab coil it pretty much looked identical to the Tornado? Memory might be wrong on that as it's been years since I held one of those in my hand a friend had for his Explorer. Kinda shocking if my memory is wrong on that, but have no reason to doubt your statement. Wow...
Hey, speaking of the old heavy 8 and 10" BBS coils prior to the Elite, always heard that the 8" was the better coil of those due to being more stable and some claimed was deeper than the 10" version. If so, I'd suspect that was either due to EMI of the 10" or a more "fuzzy" field sucking up too much ground stew in mineralized grounds, where a smaller coil can in fact punch deeper.
I have yet to see this happen on my GT with various big versus small coil tests in the ground on targets (one being a very mineralized beach using the old BBS 8" coil versus the 13" Ultimate on a target at a depth that the 8" couldn't see it while the Ultimate was able to but struggling at this outer depth limit for this sand), but I have seen this phenomena happen with small versus big coils on prior machines I've owned.
I remember one park rich with black sand or tiny hot rock material, where the Whites 5.3" bullseye coil (which is much bigger than it's name and from memory I think around 6 & 3/4" in size) was able to see deeper than the 9.5" stock coil. Now, those were concentrics, and we all know concentrics *in general* tend to ride on and see/suck up more ground stew than a good quality DD of the same size.
And I'm not sure if the smaller coil was deeper, or just in fact it's ID and tone at depth was better at that site. For sure it was at least that, if not pure raw depth ability at that site, and it wasn't a masking issue either. It was the ground mineralization that made the difference between big and small of those two coils. I'm anxious to mark a few fringe depth targets with the 8" Tornado at some badly mineralized soil and sand sites, and then swap to say the 10" Tornado and see if the signal gets worse or better. When I do I'll video it or post a thread on the subject.
Thanks for the good luck on the eight inch Tornado. Now all I need is the snow to melt and the temperatures to get up to at least a point where the winds won't be an issue. Don't mind hunting in 20+ weather, so long as there is no wind and the ground isn't frozen. All in how you dress. Always chuckle when I run into people at a gas station or such and they are shivering and cursing the cold. If I'm feeling ornery I'll joke with them and say "That's because your dressed like your on a warm beach somewhere."
I've been seeing a bunch of kids wearing shorts on the coldest of winter days walking to school and such. Man, might be able to get away with that while young, but might cause some rather sore knees as they get older no matter how they dress later in life. Same deal with blasting loud music that shakes the cars next to them. One day they'll wish they never did that if they happen not to be able to hear well down the road.
Hey, speaking of the old heavy 8 and 10" BBS coils prior to the Elite, always heard that the 8" was the better coil of those due to being more stable and some claimed was deeper than the 10" version. If so, I'd suspect that was either due to EMI of the 10" or a more "fuzzy" field sucking up too much ground stew in mineralized grounds, where a smaller coil can in fact punch deeper.
I have yet to see this happen on my GT with various big versus small coil tests in the ground on targets (one being a very mineralized beach using the old BBS 8" coil versus the 13" Ultimate on a target at a depth that the 8" couldn't see it while the Ultimate was able to but struggling at this outer depth limit for this sand), but I have seen this phenomena happen with small versus big coils on prior machines I've owned.
I remember one park rich with black sand or tiny hot rock material, where the Whites 5.3" bullseye coil (which is much bigger than it's name and from memory I think around 6 & 3/4" in size) was able to see deeper than the 9.5" stock coil. Now, those were concentrics, and we all know concentrics *in general* tend to ride on and see/suck up more ground stew than a good quality DD of the same size.
And I'm not sure if the smaller coil was deeper, or just in fact it's ID and tone at depth was better at that site. For sure it was at least that, if not pure raw depth ability at that site, and it wasn't a masking issue either. It was the ground mineralization that made the difference between big and small of those two coils. I'm anxious to mark a few fringe depth targets with the 8" Tornado at some badly mineralized soil and sand sites, and then swap to say the 10" Tornado and see if the signal gets worse or better. When I do I'll video it or post a thread on the subject.
Thanks for the good luck on the eight inch Tornado. Now all I need is the snow to melt and the temperatures to get up to at least a point where the winds won't be an issue. Don't mind hunting in 20+ weather, so long as there is no wind and the ground isn't frozen. All in how you dress. Always chuckle when I run into people at a gas station or such and they are shivering and cursing the cold. If I'm feeling ornery I'll joke with them and say "That's because your dressed like your on a warm beach somewhere."
I've been seeing a bunch of kids wearing shorts on the coldest of winter days walking to school and such. Man, might be able to get away with that while young, but might cause some rather sore knees as they get older no matter how they dress later in life. Same deal with blasting loud music that shakes the cars next to them. One day they'll wish they never did that if they happen not to be able to hear well down the road.
Neil,I always liked the Slimline 10 inch coil on my Explorer.I agree this coil got a bad rap.HH Ron
Neil
Well-known member
Critterhunter said:Neil, I was never a fan of the various 10" Minelab coils I had on my Explorers in my soil, but that's a topic for another day. Mainly wanted to ask- You mean the 8" Minelab FBS coils aren't the modern Tornado style in weight/thickness, but instead are still using the old BBS style weight/casing material for those? If so, wow....Thought for sure the last time I saw the 8" FBS Minelab coil it pretty much looked identical to the Tornado? Memory might be wrong on that as it's been years since I held one of those in my hand a friend had for his Explorer. Kinda shocking if my memory is wrong on that, but have no reason to doubt your statement. Wow...
Hey, speaking of the old heavy 8 and 10" BBS coils prior to the Elite, always heard that the 8" was the better coil of those due to being more stable and some claimed was deeper than the 10" version. If so, I'd suspect that was either due to EMI of the 10" or a more "fuzzy" field sucking up too much ground stew in mineralized grounds, where a smaller coil can in fact punch deeper.
I have yet to see this happen on my GT with various big versus small coil tests in the ground on targets (one being a very mineralized beach using the old BBS 8" coil versus the 13" Ultimate on a target at a depth that the 8" couldn't see it while the Ultimate was able to but struggling at this outer depth limit for this sand), but I have seen this phenomena happen with small versus big coils on prior machines I've owned.
I remember one park rich with black sand or tiny hot rock material, where the Whites 5.3" bullseye coil (which is much bigger than it's name and from memory I think around 6 & 3/4" in size) was able to see deeper than the 9.5" stock coil. Now, those were concentrics, and we all know concentrics *in general* tend to ride on and see/suck up more ground stew than a good quality DD of the same size.
And I'm not sure if the smaller coil was deeper, or just in fact it's ID and tone at depth was better at that site. For sure it was at least that, if not pure raw depth ability at that site, and it wasn't a masking issue either. It was the ground mineralization that made the difference between big and small of those two coils. I'm anxious to mark a few fringe depth targets with the 8" Tornado at some badly mineralized soil and sand sites, and then swap to say the 10" Tornado and see if the signal gets worse or better. When I do I'll video it or post a thread on the subject.
Thanks for the good luck on the eight inch Tornado. Now all I need is the snow to melt and the temperatures to get up to at least a point where the winds won't be an issue. Don't mind hunting in 20+ weather, so long as there is no wind and the ground isn't frozen. All in how you dress. Always chuckle when I run into people at a gas station or such and they are shivering and cursing the cold. If I'm feeling ornery I'll joke with them and say "That's because your dressed like your on a warm beach somewhere."
I've been seeing a bunch of kids wearing shorts on the coldest of winter days walking to school and such. Man, might be able to get away with that while young, but might cause some rather sore knees as they get older no matter how they dress later in life. Same deal with blasting loud music that shakes the cars next to them. One day they'll wish they never did that if they happen not to be able to hear well down the road.
Minelab has never changed their smaller 8" FBS coils since they introduced them way back when. They are still the same diameter and thickness as the older BBS coils for the Sovs. They are very good coils also and I have one coming that I bought so when it gets here I will take a pic of it and the tornado coils and the slimline (explorer series) and post them up, so you can see the differences.
I havent cross checked in years the two smaller coils (BBS and Tornado), but from memory I believe performance wise the tornado was a little more sensitive than the BBS one. I dont think seperation or depth varied at all between the two. The most obvious difference is the slimmer design/lighter weight. That lower weight alone can make someone like one coil more than another. Any weight savings one can manage off the end of the rod is going to be felt greater than if the same amount were removed from another part of the detector.
Now when your talking performance between the larger tornado and larger BBS I would say the same as the smaller ones, seperation and depth the same but the weight, well, even more magnified because of the larger size( and if I remember right the coil ears are mounted closer to the outside of the coil on the older BBS).
I find both larger coils, BBS and Tornado, to get better depth than the smaller versions.
I just measured and compared the two, 8" are the same. The 10" Tornado ears are about 15CM closer to the center than the BBS. Which means it is lighter and better balanced. To me the weight difference of the 8" BBS is not an issue, but as we all know the 10 BBS is like a rock after long day.
[/quote] Minelab has never changed their smaller 8" FBS coils since they introduced them way back when. They are still the same diameter and thickness as the older BBS coils for the Sovs. They are very good coils also and I have one coming that I bought so when it gets here I will take a pic of it and the tornado coils and the slimline (explorer series) and post them up, so you can see the differences.
I havent cross checked in years the two smaller coils (BBS and Tornado), but from memory I believe performance wise the tornado was a little more sensitive than the BBS one. I dont think seperation or depth varied at all between the two. The most obvious difference is the slimmer design/lighter weight. That lower weight alone can make someone like one coil more than another. Any weight savings one can manage off the end of the rod is going to be felt greater than if the same amount were removed from another part of the detector.
Now when your talking performance between the larger tornado and larger BBS I would say the same as the smaller ones, seperation and depth the same but the weight, well, even more magnified because of the larger size( and if I remember right the coil ears are mounted closer to the outside of the coil on the older BBS).
I find both larger coils, BBS and Tornado, to get better depth than the smaller versions.[/quote]
[/quote] Minelab has never changed their smaller 8" FBS coils since they introduced them way back when. They are still the same diameter and thickness as the older BBS coils for the Sovs. They are very good coils also and I have one coming that I bought so when it gets here I will take a pic of it and the tornado coils and the slimline (explorer series) and post them up, so you can see the differences.
I havent cross checked in years the two smaller coils (BBS and Tornado), but from memory I believe performance wise the tornado was a little more sensitive than the BBS one. I dont think seperation or depth varied at all between the two. The most obvious difference is the slimmer design/lighter weight. That lower weight alone can make someone like one coil more than another. Any weight savings one can manage off the end of the rod is going to be felt greater than if the same amount were removed from another part of the detector.
Now when your talking performance between the larger tornado and larger BBS I would say the same as the smaller ones, seperation and depth the same but the weight, well, even more magnified because of the larger size( and if I remember right the coil ears are mounted closer to the outside of the coil on the older BBS).
I find both larger coils, BBS and Tornado, to get better depth than the smaller versions.[/quote]
Critterhunter
New member
Neil, thanks for the potential insight on the contrast of all these coils in weight and performance. I've used the BBS 800 heavy old version on a friend's Excalibur. First time using a BBS machine and it was not working properly. But just the same when it came across a good signal in the woods I just "knew" it was going to be good. Turned out in one hole a 1835 bust dime and right next to it a large cent. Really "wowed" me. As for the weight, I just remember holding that little coil in my hand while doing some work on it and thinking "man this thing is a boat anchor for such a little coil." I'm curious now as to it's weight to the 8" Tornado, which I guess has been posted in the coil weight chart thread, so I'll skim that real quick to see how they compare.
Yes, would very much like to see the FBS 8" coil in contrast to all of them in a picture. Thanks.
Yes, would very much like to see the FBS 8" coil in contrast to all of them in a picture. Thanks.
Critterhunter
New member
For me the more backward mounting of the ears on the Sun Ray S-12 Intruder, although very much near the weight of the 12x10 or the Ultimate, makes the Intruder much more heavy feeling to me. I think it makes things nose heavy, but maybe that's due to the light weight land shaft I built, where a heavier shaft might not throw it's self as much off balance with the S-12 on it.
The stock GT arm cup alone way in the back weighs 8.8 ounces (over half a pound), while I'm using a much lighter Whites "heavy duty" $10 arm cup/strap back there. Even though my control box is mounted all the way in the back on the shaft, the lack of more weight back there due to the arm cup, lighter gauge aluminum upper shaft, and the 3 cell lipo I'm using in the Alkaline holder I'm sure makes the more "foreward" position of the S-12 on the shaft an issue for me. The lipo in the alkaline holder is from memory exactly half the weight of the stock rechargeable pack when I weighed both battery holders on a digital scale.
Both the 12x10 and Ultimate have the mounting ears dead center on the coil, or at least I'm sure the 12x10 does and 99% sure from memory the Ultimate does as well. I seem to remember some Explorer guys back in the way would flip the 10" coil around backwards so that the overhanging front end of the coil would now be under the shaft. Seems like a good idea. Wonder if anybody has tried that with the 10" Tornado on the Sovereign? Just for kicks I might have to do that some day here and see how it feels. Same deal with the S-12 maybe. Don't see how it would hurt any performance aspects, as the fields generated should be identical at both tip and tail of the coil regardless of which end you are using as the "front" to wiggle at things...
The stock GT arm cup alone way in the back weighs 8.8 ounces (over half a pound), while I'm using a much lighter Whites "heavy duty" $10 arm cup/strap back there. Even though my control box is mounted all the way in the back on the shaft, the lack of more weight back there due to the arm cup, lighter gauge aluminum upper shaft, and the 3 cell lipo I'm using in the Alkaline holder I'm sure makes the more "foreward" position of the S-12 on the shaft an issue for me. The lipo in the alkaline holder is from memory exactly half the weight of the stock rechargeable pack when I weighed both battery holders on a digital scale.
Both the 12x10 and Ultimate have the mounting ears dead center on the coil, or at least I'm sure the 12x10 does and 99% sure from memory the Ultimate does as well. I seem to remember some Explorer guys back in the way would flip the 10" coil around backwards so that the overhanging front end of the coil would now be under the shaft. Seems like a good idea. Wonder if anybody has tried that with the 10" Tornado on the Sovereign? Just for kicks I might have to do that some day here and see how it feels. Same deal with the S-12 maybe. Don't see how it would hurt any performance aspects, as the fields generated should be identical at both tip and tail of the coil regardless of which end you are using as the "front" to wiggle at things...
Neil
Well-known member
Critterhunter said:
The smaller FBS coil is the one I just got, its identical in shape to the smaller Tornado but its a good deal thicker. The older 8" BBS coil is the same as the 8" FBS. The FBS and BBS coils are from minelab and measure 7.25" outside diameter with the coil cover off.
The S8 is made by Sunray and is a full 8" outside diameter with the coil cover off.
their weights are:
FBS....540 grams
Tornado.....515 grams
S8......510 grams
The smaller tornado feels like the lighter of the two BBS coils on the end of the rod to me but the S8 is apparently the lighter of the two. Both have full length cables and covers on. Also I would guess the older BBS coil would weigh in right about where the FBS coil is even though the cables are slightly different lengths.
Critterhunter
New member
Great info and pics. Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to throw that in the coil weight/size thread that's attached to the Coil Sticky so people will have it at their fingertips for future reference.
If I remember right (?), I think Ralph at Sun Ray said the the S-5 (5.5"), being epoxy filled, has the coil windings all the way out to the edge of the coil, where as some other solid (non-spoked) coils not filled with epoxy from some manufacturers might have padding at the outer edge of the coil casing to protect the windings from shock bumping stuff. So that can mean some coils (meaning physical winding size) are not the true size of their casing. Vaguely I think I remember him saying that the 8" Coinsearch is like that, being that it's not epoxy filled inside. I know the 5" Excelerator isn't either, because I saw one that got water inside it and had to be taken apart to dry things out, but don't remember if it's windings were not right up against the edge of the casing.
If I remember right (?), I think Ralph at Sun Ray said the the S-5 (5.5"), being epoxy filled, has the coil windings all the way out to the edge of the coil, where as some other solid (non-spoked) coils not filled with epoxy from some manufacturers might have padding at the outer edge of the coil casing to protect the windings from shock bumping stuff. So that can mean some coils (meaning physical winding size) are not the true size of their casing. Vaguely I think I remember him saying that the 8" Coinsearch is like that, being that it's not epoxy filled inside. I know the 5" Excelerator isn't either, because I saw one that got water inside it and had to be taken apart to dry things out, but don't remember if it's windings were not right up against the edge of the casing.
Critterhunter
New member
This should give you guys some better size perspective on just how tiny this 7.25" Tornado is.
[attachment 257953 IMG_2102.jpg]
Pretty darn small looking, eh? Still haven't used it yet. Too bitter cold out today for comfort. Just swung it around in the grass a few minutes without turning on the GT. EMI is real bad at this spot with a cluster of overhead power lines. Wouldn't be able to run it all out for a test spin without drastically lowering sensitivity. I just wanted to see how it felt. Man, that little bugger is effortless to swing around and feels like I'm using the end of a pool stick to scan the ground.
Excuse the dirty GT. Need to clean it up from some rather muddy hunts a few weeks back. Also need to put another velcro loop or two on the shaft to secure the coil cable better. I don't like any lose movement of the coil cable going up the shaft to prevent it being seen in the detection field and also any potential shorts developing over time with movement. Usually I also wrap the coil cable better behind the grip but just threw it together real quick for some pics.
One of the nice things about Ron's meter, unlike this Minelab Digisearch meter in the pics, is that you don't have all that extra bulky coil cable the meter comes with on the shaft. Ron's uses a thin short stereo cord, or you can plug an extension into it from Radio Shack to hip or chest mount the control box while still leaving the meter on the shaft. I only throw his meter on when I don't plan beating up the machine badly in the woods, since the stock meter has already saw a ton of punishment, so I figure Ron's should see more "gentle" days of use so I know I always have a second meter as a back up that's been babied in case this Digisearch meter ever bombs out on me. With Ron's I typically just mount it on the shaft past the grip since it stands tall and is easy to see, but by bending the pipe hanger mount it comes with you can also mount it on top of the grip.
Weighed my light weight land shaft rig here, minus my headphones, and this land rig is using a 3 cell lipo in the alkaline holder as I always do to drop extra weight plus no hassles with self discharge while the GT is in storage waiting for the next hunt like the stock nimh pack will do. Weights is 4 pounds 2.7 ounces. Even with the 12x10 on this rig it's a very light set up, but with the 8" Tornado it feels even more feather light on my arm/shoulder. Once this coil is out of warranty I'm ditching the coil cover and using spray on bed liner like I do all my coils, which will save me 1.8 ounces more weight and bring the total weight of the rig with the 8" Tornado on the shaft down to 4 pounds .9 (point nine) ounces. Getting closer to breaking that 4 pound barrier. Ron's meter is also about 2.2 ounces lighter than the Digisearch meter from memory, so that'll push the weight down into the 3 pound plus weight class when I slap it on the shaft with this little coil.
About the only other things I could do to drop more weight off my GT is shorten coil cables or replace the upper lighter gauge aluminum shaft I'm using with carbon fiber like the lower Whites tall man rod on this rig is, or also change the hollow aluminum bike end bar grip for a carbon fiber one of those as well. Not much more I can do to save a few more grams or ounces other than all that.
Think I'm going to like this little coil if the feel of it's sleekness is any indication as to how well it will sniper stuff out of trash. Also want to head to an old site and see how close to a fence I can get where I'm sure some silver lurks that the fence has protected for years from detectors.
[attachment 257953 IMG_2102.jpg]
Pretty darn small looking, eh? Still haven't used it yet. Too bitter cold out today for comfort. Just swung it around in the grass a few minutes without turning on the GT. EMI is real bad at this spot with a cluster of overhead power lines. Wouldn't be able to run it all out for a test spin without drastically lowering sensitivity. I just wanted to see how it felt. Man, that little bugger is effortless to swing around and feels like I'm using the end of a pool stick to scan the ground.
Excuse the dirty GT. Need to clean it up from some rather muddy hunts a few weeks back. Also need to put another velcro loop or two on the shaft to secure the coil cable better. I don't like any lose movement of the coil cable going up the shaft to prevent it being seen in the detection field and also any potential shorts developing over time with movement. Usually I also wrap the coil cable better behind the grip but just threw it together real quick for some pics.
One of the nice things about Ron's meter, unlike this Minelab Digisearch meter in the pics, is that you don't have all that extra bulky coil cable the meter comes with on the shaft. Ron's uses a thin short stereo cord, or you can plug an extension into it from Radio Shack to hip or chest mount the control box while still leaving the meter on the shaft. I only throw his meter on when I don't plan beating up the machine badly in the woods, since the stock meter has already saw a ton of punishment, so I figure Ron's should see more "gentle" days of use so I know I always have a second meter as a back up that's been babied in case this Digisearch meter ever bombs out on me. With Ron's I typically just mount it on the shaft past the grip since it stands tall and is easy to see, but by bending the pipe hanger mount it comes with you can also mount it on top of the grip.
Weighed my light weight land shaft rig here, minus my headphones, and this land rig is using a 3 cell lipo in the alkaline holder as I always do to drop extra weight plus no hassles with self discharge while the GT is in storage waiting for the next hunt like the stock nimh pack will do. Weights is 4 pounds 2.7 ounces. Even with the 12x10 on this rig it's a very light set up, but with the 8" Tornado it feels even more feather light on my arm/shoulder. Once this coil is out of warranty I'm ditching the coil cover and using spray on bed liner like I do all my coils, which will save me 1.8 ounces more weight and bring the total weight of the rig with the 8" Tornado on the shaft down to 4 pounds .9 (point nine) ounces. Getting closer to breaking that 4 pound barrier. Ron's meter is also about 2.2 ounces lighter than the Digisearch meter from memory, so that'll push the weight down into the 3 pound plus weight class when I slap it on the shaft with this little coil.
About the only other things I could do to drop more weight off my GT is shorten coil cables or replace the upper lighter gauge aluminum shaft I'm using with carbon fiber like the lower Whites tall man rod on this rig is, or also change the hollow aluminum bike end bar grip for a carbon fiber one of those as well. Not much more I can do to save a few more grams or ounces other than all that.
Think I'm going to like this little coil if the feel of it's sleekness is any indication as to how well it will sniper stuff out of trash. Also want to head to an old site and see how close to a fence I can get where I'm sure some silver lurks that the fence has protected for years from detectors.
Critterhunter
New member
It was warm enough today that time permitted me about an hour's hunt nearby at a corner lot. This particular lot has a lot of history to it, with a few old houses that were torn down years ago and before the houses I saw pictures from the 1800's of people parking wagons there to visit a nearby swimming hole. I have taken virtually every machine and every new coil for those machines to this lot over the years.
It features good black neutral soil but with tons of iron in it which I have pulled large cents from (3 in one day) that had square nails in the hole with them, and it also features areas of bad soil with tiny hot rocks that will make even coins 4 or so inches deep with my prior non-Minelabs sound like very iffy/scratchy coin hits that you would bet good money were going to turn out to be junk, yet I've pulled barber dimes and Indians from that type of ground at this site that gave those shallow real bad coin hits.
So it's got it all in terms of the harsh factors that can play havoc with coils or machines, and to top it all off there are nearby power lines due to the intersecting roads that meet there which raises EMI levels rather high. I like to judge machines or coils at this site as a proving ground for them, since also it's small enough that I can be confident I've worked those machines and coils over the same patch of ground, and in particular because I tend to concentrate on two specific areas in that lot- One being a bed of nails and other forms of iron in the good neutral black topsoil, and another patch of the hot rock like soil that is dispersed around two old trees.
While I haven't dug every non-ferrous hit out of this site, I have dug most of the solid ones above iron, and piratically every iffy coin hit I've ever come across, so even a clad or two that has eluded me before would be a victory, in particular if they are deep enough that I know they've been there for years and not recent drops.
With the 15x12 coil I'm pretty sure first time there with that coil I dug a standing liberty quarter at about 7 to 7.5" deep which I believe from memory was standing on end, as I remember it giving that distinct warbly coin sound of those, and don't recall it having any trash around it from memory, and was wondering how in the world I missed that coin so many times before. Very first time I got my 12x10 I took it there and dug a old woman's silver ring standing on edge. Plucked it right out of the side of the plug standing on end at the bottom, which was somewhere from 5 to 7" deep as I recall.
First thing I did was turn the GT on and judged how high I could ride the sensitivity with this little coil knowing that there was EMI nearby. I had Iron Mask ON as I always do to insure best ability to find coins in iron and also for (my tests show) about a half inch more depth on a coin. Threshold just loud enough to hear. Noise band 2, and disc and notch at zero as usual too.
At full blast manual sensitivity the 8" Tornado was stable so long as I held the coil still, which tells me it wasn't having EMI issues, but when sweeping around it was nulling out too much. This wasn't due to iron but rather mineralization because the nulling would come and go sweeping over the same spot. So I decided what's the point in trying to max out the depth of this coil on it's first outing, because in that heavy iron patch I was heading for I was more concerned about unmasking than I was maximum depth, so I lowered it all the way down to 3PM (3/4ths of all the way down) and found the nulling was no longer coming and going as I swept. Besides sometimes a lower sensitivity level helping you get less "glare" off of iron or other trash to see between it perhaps better (going to do a video testing this with various sensitivity levels on masked coins), I wanted to see just how deep this little coil would go with a very low sensitivity setting.
So the finds in that roughly hours time- Got fooled by 3 or 4 holes that were coin falses off iron, but only because I wanted to take a chance on digging them even though I was 99% sure by the ghostly audio they would be iron. After all, when using a little coil like this I'm after badly masked stuff, and even with this tiny thing there could be some coins so badly masked that, while it manged to produce an iffy coin hit that other coils couldn't, that might be as good as it gets from some of them if the masking is really bad. And, I don't know this coil's traits yet, as to what it is signaling as iron or as a mask coin. All coins tend to be a bit different in that respect, so until I learn it's language I intend to dig any hint of a high tone I come across even if prior experience has told me 90% of the time it's going to be iron.
As I moved along in a short matter of time, I get a good coin hit from any direction as I moved around it from any angle. Swept around it in pin point to see if any iron was present masking it, because I had decided that I'd only dig hits that I could see any kind of iron or other masking trash surrounding, because chances are then it might be a shallow oldie that all larger coils and machines before this little guy couldn't see. I planned to pass any hits that weren't masked by nearby trash or iron in some way to increase my potential for finding oldies that way that those other machines/larger coils had missed.
Turns out the perfect coin hit when I switched to PP mode showed me it had a very large piece of iron nearby (about 6" or so long judging by tracing it out) and another smaller piece of iron as well nearby. If the coin hit was the center of a clock face, the large piece of iron was at the 6PM position and horizontal in aspect to my coil, and was about 4" away (south) from the coin hit.
The smaller iron hit was at about the 9PM position and about 4 to 5" away from the coin hit as well. "Perfect" I thought, might be an old coin that that large piece of iron and the smaller one has kept larger coils and other machines from seeing. Dug down and at around the 4 to 5" mark found a copper memorial laying at the bottom of the hole. Alright then, this is the kind of thing I was expecting from this coil, and the depth of 4 or 5" with such a solid hit and perfect ID despite it's coil size and the low sensitivity setting had me happy with that too.
Later I got another coin hit and this one too had trash around it. Non-ferrous trash this time (reading like foil or small can shards scattered around it), but much closer to the coin hit with some of them than the last iron masked one, and at least 3 or 4 of these trash items were creating a sort of "ring of trash" around it that this little coil was just small enough to fit inside to miss them and see only the coin hit in the detection field. Some of these masking trash items were within the diameter of the coil, but by slightly changing the angle of the DD line I could see between those and to the coin signal in between without issues.
Dug down and got another copper memorial, probably in the 4" range. Wow again, the first copper penny had a large piece of iron by it that I bet a larger coil would "glare" off of even at the outer edge of the coil if you didn't get the right angle on the coin beside it, but this time it was a mine field of non-ferrous junk scattered around this second coppery penny. I'm seeing what I had hoped already as to the potential of this little coil, even if nothing old has come out of the ground yet.
Right before I left I moved over to where I always park at a little parking lot off to the side of this lot. There is sprayed tiny gravel into the grass here from the road's edge which plays havoc with causing machines to null or false due to the hot rock like properties gravel often has. This spot I knew was also loaded with non-ferrous trash due to the nature of people getting in and out of cars and such.
So within about 3 minutes of working the grass edge of this little parking spot I got a perfect 144 nickel hit and good tone, again with large amounts of non-ferrous trash spanning around it, and this time this with the fine sprayed gravel that presents a further obstacle for machines or coils to overcome, and yet even with the nulling here and there in that general area from that I was able to see this potential nickel hit within that spanse of it and the trash.
I was hoping for either an old nickel or perhaps a ring somebody slipped off their finger when reaching for their keys in their pocket, but around 2 to 3" deep I popped out a button. Doesn't look too old and says "South Pole" on it, with a neat little pattern in the center. Not the old nickel or gold ring I was hoping for, but still a keeper in my book that will go in my button collection drawer.
In summary of the initial impressions of this coil's feel and all that- Just couldn't get over how tiny this coil looked on the shaft. Even though the S-5 I had was smaller by 1 & 3/4" in diameter, the fact that this coil isn't solid like the S-5 gives me the impression of it being just as tiny at the end of the shaft. Almost felt like I was using a cheap dime store detector in a way. The weight and use of it is effortless for sure, like there isn't even a coil on the end of your shaft.
One thing I had to drill into my head a few times was that this coil isn't meant for covering ground, period! You don't want to move with a small coil like this. Instead, you want to force yourself to stand in one place as much as you can stand it, only advancing the coil with tiny little perhaps inch at a time advancements, because not only do you need to do that to overlap your sweeps well with it (even overlapping them by half like you should at least do with larger coils, if not more, is still going at a snail's pace with this little coil...and you shouldn't even go that fast), but also because this is the very purpose of a coil like this.
When we are dealing with a 7.25" dimension in coil size, and those sub-eight inch lengthwise separation aspects you should be shooting for where you hope to find some keepers mixed in iron or other trash, the very nature of what your there to use that coil for is to sniff around intensely with it. Instead of hitting iron or other junk and quickly cursing it and moving on, look forward to that kind of signal and don't rush past it.
Instead, seek that iron or other junk out and look forward to finding such obstacle courses that will spin larger coils off the road, so to speak. Work it's edges, and hope to find further trash in close proximity to it which increases the masking potential for other coils even more so, and then try to work between those other pieces of trash and it at various angles looking for any hint of a high tone.
Think of it as the snail riding the turtle's back telling it to slow down because it's going too fast. That's what I had to keep reminding myself, instead of wanting to "get over there". The grass is never greener than it will be right in front of your two feet. I must admit I didn't do that the entire time, only having so long to hunt before I had to go. I wanted to work the iron patch some and then move over to the other end where the rough mineralized ground was.
And, oh yea...In that mineralized ground around those two trees, I've pretty much dug every solid hit above iron in the past, and yet today I popped an old shotgun shell about 5 to 6" deep. Pretty impressive again for such a low sensitivity setting with such a tiny coil. I didn't think to check that shotgun shell around it in PP to see if any iron or other junk was present, but more so than that I was happy to get a clean "tab" hit from it at that depth.
Mainly because I know from past experience stuff that deep in this particular patch of hot rock like ground a target that deep can sound very scratchy and iffy with various machines I've owned in the past, or perhaps even a larger coil might have issues with on even a Minelab due to the tiny hot rocks screwing up the signal. I need to test my bigger coils against this little guy in a very mineralized beach I hunt to see if it'll clean up signals at depth. Haven't seen that yet with the GT and small versus bigger coils, but I have seen it with smaller versus bigger coils on some of my prior non-GT units.
Yea, no real big keepers in this short first time hunt with it, but I consider any coin removed from this site a victory due to how hard I've pounded it in the past. Rare to even find a lone clad in there, so two copper pennies and the "nickel" hit which turned out to be a button is still showing me this coil has some real potential in unmasking stuff without as much need to work a site from different angles.
Final thoughts- The 12x10 is amazing at left/right separation due to it's scalpel sharp width of the DD line, but for sure length wise the 7.25" Tornado is going to find some stuff in "rings of trash" around a coin that a large coil will have to be very lucky to hit coming at it from just the right angle to avoid anything but the coin being under the length of the DD line.
First target in a detection field and it's lights out for seeing a deeper coin even if it's directly under the coil. You can get around this largely by gridding a site from numerous odd angles. Think of a typical "+" grid pattern, but even more deadly I've found is to grid them at those odd angles nobody will. Think of an "X" in that case. Human nature is that people usually parallel landmarks such as sidewalks, roads, forest lines, or buildings. Somewhat less common but still often done is gridding at 90 degrees to those objects. But if you really want to wake up a dead spot people have long since given up on, try gridding it and diagonal angles. Just rubs against human nature the wrong way to do that, which is why there are many coins out there that you'll find which can only be seen at those odd "nobody does that" angles.
All that said, my *very early* impressions of this little Tornado is the DD line *might* feel a bit fatter to me than the 12x10 in width. The tones also seem a bit more "broad" with it and more base like rather than the treble like qualities of the 12x10's and Ultimates audio report. I need to do some testing to see if I can see any difference in certain respects on that, but even if it's a thicker DD line there is no doubt it'll outshine any coil bigger than 7.25" in terms of length wise separation, where any larger coil with a sharp DD line is still going to have to grid from various angles to see everything this coil can see in some situations, and even then with the right amount of a "ring of trash" around a deeper coin spanning larger than 7.25" in diameter.
That's going to be like trying to fit a camel through the eye of a needle to see that coin with larger coils while missing all the trash surrounding with the foreword to aft DD line. If anything, this is where I expect this coil to shine, and also while a smaller coil than it might be able to see inside that trash barrier, if the coin is deep enough it might be out of range for a smaller coil while well within the reach of the big (and little at the same time) eight inch Tornado...
By the way, I also did the obligatory air depth test on a dime with it today at full blast sensitivity at my usual low EMI testing grounds for that. When I get done editing the video I'll post it. I'm anxious to see how it did depth wise against the S-5 and the 10" Tornado, since it fits between both of them in it's sizing class. Also real curious now to run it through the elevated nail and other nail masking coins tests I've done with other coils. Want to pin down a little more insight on the qualities of it's DD line. Will do the mineralized brick 3 high test with it as well, and while I'm at it I'll run the S-12 through the same course since I've been meaning to get that out of the way...
It features good black neutral soil but with tons of iron in it which I have pulled large cents from (3 in one day) that had square nails in the hole with them, and it also features areas of bad soil with tiny hot rocks that will make even coins 4 or so inches deep with my prior non-Minelabs sound like very iffy/scratchy coin hits that you would bet good money were going to turn out to be junk, yet I've pulled barber dimes and Indians from that type of ground at this site that gave those shallow real bad coin hits.
So it's got it all in terms of the harsh factors that can play havoc with coils or machines, and to top it all off there are nearby power lines due to the intersecting roads that meet there which raises EMI levels rather high. I like to judge machines or coils at this site as a proving ground for them, since also it's small enough that I can be confident I've worked those machines and coils over the same patch of ground, and in particular because I tend to concentrate on two specific areas in that lot- One being a bed of nails and other forms of iron in the good neutral black topsoil, and another patch of the hot rock like soil that is dispersed around two old trees.
While I haven't dug every non-ferrous hit out of this site, I have dug most of the solid ones above iron, and piratically every iffy coin hit I've ever come across, so even a clad or two that has eluded me before would be a victory, in particular if they are deep enough that I know they've been there for years and not recent drops.
With the 15x12 coil I'm pretty sure first time there with that coil I dug a standing liberty quarter at about 7 to 7.5" deep which I believe from memory was standing on end, as I remember it giving that distinct warbly coin sound of those, and don't recall it having any trash around it from memory, and was wondering how in the world I missed that coin so many times before. Very first time I got my 12x10 I took it there and dug a old woman's silver ring standing on edge. Plucked it right out of the side of the plug standing on end at the bottom, which was somewhere from 5 to 7" deep as I recall.
First thing I did was turn the GT on and judged how high I could ride the sensitivity with this little coil knowing that there was EMI nearby. I had Iron Mask ON as I always do to insure best ability to find coins in iron and also for (my tests show) about a half inch more depth on a coin. Threshold just loud enough to hear. Noise band 2, and disc and notch at zero as usual too.
At full blast manual sensitivity the 8" Tornado was stable so long as I held the coil still, which tells me it wasn't having EMI issues, but when sweeping around it was nulling out too much. This wasn't due to iron but rather mineralization because the nulling would come and go sweeping over the same spot. So I decided what's the point in trying to max out the depth of this coil on it's first outing, because in that heavy iron patch I was heading for I was more concerned about unmasking than I was maximum depth, so I lowered it all the way down to 3PM (3/4ths of all the way down) and found the nulling was no longer coming and going as I swept. Besides sometimes a lower sensitivity level helping you get less "glare" off of iron or other trash to see between it perhaps better (going to do a video testing this with various sensitivity levels on masked coins), I wanted to see just how deep this little coil would go with a very low sensitivity setting.
So the finds in that roughly hours time- Got fooled by 3 or 4 holes that were coin falses off iron, but only because I wanted to take a chance on digging them even though I was 99% sure by the ghostly audio they would be iron. After all, when using a little coil like this I'm after badly masked stuff, and even with this tiny thing there could be some coins so badly masked that, while it manged to produce an iffy coin hit that other coils couldn't, that might be as good as it gets from some of them if the masking is really bad. And, I don't know this coil's traits yet, as to what it is signaling as iron or as a mask coin. All coins tend to be a bit different in that respect, so until I learn it's language I intend to dig any hint of a high tone I come across even if prior experience has told me 90% of the time it's going to be iron.
As I moved along in a short matter of time, I get a good coin hit from any direction as I moved around it from any angle. Swept around it in pin point to see if any iron was present masking it, because I had decided that I'd only dig hits that I could see any kind of iron or other masking trash surrounding, because chances are then it might be a shallow oldie that all larger coils and machines before this little guy couldn't see. I planned to pass any hits that weren't masked by nearby trash or iron in some way to increase my potential for finding oldies that way that those other machines/larger coils had missed.
Turns out the perfect coin hit when I switched to PP mode showed me it had a very large piece of iron nearby (about 6" or so long judging by tracing it out) and another smaller piece of iron as well nearby. If the coin hit was the center of a clock face, the large piece of iron was at the 6PM position and horizontal in aspect to my coil, and was about 4" away (south) from the coin hit.
The smaller iron hit was at about the 9PM position and about 4 to 5" away from the coin hit as well. "Perfect" I thought, might be an old coin that that large piece of iron and the smaller one has kept larger coils and other machines from seeing. Dug down and at around the 4 to 5" mark found a copper memorial laying at the bottom of the hole. Alright then, this is the kind of thing I was expecting from this coil, and the depth of 4 or 5" with such a solid hit and perfect ID despite it's coil size and the low sensitivity setting had me happy with that too.
Later I got another coin hit and this one too had trash around it. Non-ferrous trash this time (reading like foil or small can shards scattered around it), but much closer to the coin hit with some of them than the last iron masked one, and at least 3 or 4 of these trash items were creating a sort of "ring of trash" around it that this little coil was just small enough to fit inside to miss them and see only the coin hit in the detection field. Some of these masking trash items were within the diameter of the coil, but by slightly changing the angle of the DD line I could see between those and to the coin signal in between without issues.
Dug down and got another copper memorial, probably in the 4" range. Wow again, the first copper penny had a large piece of iron by it that I bet a larger coil would "glare" off of even at the outer edge of the coil if you didn't get the right angle on the coin beside it, but this time it was a mine field of non-ferrous junk scattered around this second coppery penny. I'm seeing what I had hoped already as to the potential of this little coil, even if nothing old has come out of the ground yet.
Right before I left I moved over to where I always park at a little parking lot off to the side of this lot. There is sprayed tiny gravel into the grass here from the road's edge which plays havoc with causing machines to null or false due to the hot rock like properties gravel often has. This spot I knew was also loaded with non-ferrous trash due to the nature of people getting in and out of cars and such.
So within about 3 minutes of working the grass edge of this little parking spot I got a perfect 144 nickel hit and good tone, again with large amounts of non-ferrous trash spanning around it, and this time this with the fine sprayed gravel that presents a further obstacle for machines or coils to overcome, and yet even with the nulling here and there in that general area from that I was able to see this potential nickel hit within that spanse of it and the trash.
I was hoping for either an old nickel or perhaps a ring somebody slipped off their finger when reaching for their keys in their pocket, but around 2 to 3" deep I popped out a button. Doesn't look too old and says "South Pole" on it, with a neat little pattern in the center. Not the old nickel or gold ring I was hoping for, but still a keeper in my book that will go in my button collection drawer.
In summary of the initial impressions of this coil's feel and all that- Just couldn't get over how tiny this coil looked on the shaft. Even though the S-5 I had was smaller by 1 & 3/4" in diameter, the fact that this coil isn't solid like the S-5 gives me the impression of it being just as tiny at the end of the shaft. Almost felt like I was using a cheap dime store detector in a way.
The weight and use of it is effortless for sure, like there isn't even a coil on the end of your shaft.One thing I had to drill into my head a few times was that this coil isn't meant for covering ground, period! You don't want to move with a small coil like this. Instead, you want to force yourself to stand in one place as much as you can stand it, only advancing the coil with tiny little perhaps inch at a time advancements, because not only do you need to do that to overlap your sweeps well with it (even overlapping them by half like you should at least do with larger coils, if not more, is still going at a snail's pace with this little coil...and you shouldn't even go that fast), but also because this is the very purpose of a coil like this.
When we are dealing with a 7.25" dimension in coil size, and those sub-eight inch lengthwise separation aspects you should be shooting for where you hope to find some keepers mixed in iron or other trash, the very nature of what your there to use that coil for is to sniff around intensely with it. Instead of hitting iron or other junk and quickly cursing it and moving on, look forward to that kind of signal and don't rush past it.
Instead, seek that iron or other junk out and look forward to finding such obstacle courses that will spin larger coils off the road, so to speak. Work it's edges, and hope to find further trash in close proximity to it which increases the masking potential for other coils even more so, and then try to work between those other pieces of trash and it at various angles looking for any hint of a high tone.
Think of it as the snail riding the turtle's back telling it to slow down because it's going too fast.
That's what I had to keep reminding myself, instead of wanting to "get over there". The grass is never greener than it will be right in front of your two feet. I must admit I didn't do that the entire time, only having so long to hunt before I had to go. I wanted to work the iron patch some and then move over to the other end where the rough mineralized ground was.And, oh yea...In that mineralized ground around those two trees, I've pretty much dug every solid hit above iron in the past, and yet today I popped an old shotgun shell about 5 to 6" deep. Pretty impressive again for such a low sensitivity setting with such a tiny coil. I didn't think to check that shotgun shell around it in PP to see if any iron or other junk was present, but more so than that I was happy to get a clean "tab" hit from it at that depth.
Mainly because I know from past experience stuff that deep in this particular patch of hot rock like ground a target that deep can sound very scratchy and iffy with various machines I've owned in the past, or perhaps even a larger coil might have issues with on even a Minelab due to the tiny hot rocks screwing up the signal. I need to test my bigger coils against this little guy in a very mineralized beach I hunt to see if it'll clean up signals at depth. Haven't seen that yet with the GT and small versus bigger coils, but I have seen it with smaller versus bigger coils on some of my prior non-GT units.
Yea, no real big keepers in this short first time hunt with it, but I consider any coin removed from this site a victory due to how hard I've pounded it in the past. Rare to even find a lone clad in there, so two copper pennies and the "nickel" hit which turned out to be a button is still showing me this coil has some real potential in unmasking stuff without as much need to work a site from different angles.
Final thoughts- The 12x10 is amazing at left/right separation due to it's scalpel sharp width of the DD line, but for sure length wise the 7.25" Tornado is going to find some stuff in "rings of trash" around a coin that a large coil will have to be very lucky to hit coming at it from just the right angle to avoid anything but the coin being under the length of the DD line.
First target in a detection field and it's lights out for seeing a deeper coin even if it's directly under the coil. You can get around this largely by gridding a site from numerous odd angles. Think of a typical "+" grid pattern, but even more deadly I've found is to grid them at those odd angles nobody will. Think of an "X" in that case. Human nature is that people usually parallel landmarks such as sidewalks, roads, forest lines, or buildings. Somewhat less common but still often done is gridding at 90 degrees to those objects. But if you really want to wake up a dead spot people have long since given up on, try gridding it and diagonal angles. Just rubs against human nature the wrong way to do that, which is why there are many coins out there that you'll find which can only be seen at those odd "nobody does that" angles.
All that said, my *very early* impressions of this little Tornado is the DD line *might* feel a bit fatter to me than the 12x10 in width. The tones also seem a bit more "broad" with it and more base like rather than the treble like qualities of the 12x10's and Ultimates audio report. I need to do some testing to see if I can see any difference in certain respects on that, but even if it's a thicker DD line there is no doubt it'll outshine any coil bigger than 7.25" in terms of length wise separation, where any larger coil with a sharp DD line is still going to have to grid from various angles to see everything this coil can see in some situations, and even then with the right amount of a "ring of trash" around a deeper coin spanning larger than 7.25" in diameter.
That's going to be like trying to fit a camel through the eye of a needle to see that coin with larger coils while missing all the trash surrounding with the foreword to aft DD line. If anything, this is where I expect this coil to shine, and also while a smaller coil than it might be able to see inside that trash barrier, if the coin is deep enough it might be out of range for a smaller coil while well within the reach of the big (and little at the same time) eight inch Tornado...
By the way, I also did the obligatory air depth test on a dime with it today at full blast sensitivity at my usual low EMI testing grounds for that. When I get done editing the video I'll post it. I'm anxious to see how it did depth wise against the S-5 and the 10" Tornado, since it fits between both of them in it's sizing class. Also real curious now to run it through the elevated nail and other nail masking coins tests I've done with other coils. Want to pin down a little more insight on the qualities of it's DD line. Will do the mineralized brick 3 high test with it as well, and while I'm at it I'll run the S-12 through the same course since I've been meaning to get that out of the way...
Neil,I used that small coil on my Explorer with good results,didn't realize its was the same dimensions as the old BBS 8OO coil.Used a small unstable scale my results BBS 800 coil 8 ft cord with scuff cover 590 grams without cover 530 grams, 800 Tornado with 8 ' cord and without scuff cover 465 grams.Thanks Ron
Critterhunter
New member
Just finished editing and posting a basic air testing pictorial of the 7.25" Tornado. While air depth testing isn't the final answer on these BBS units, it does give me some insight on what potentials to look for in a coil or machine and either prove or disprove for myself in the field, even though I have dug deeper coins with some coils on the GT than these air tests show. That said, it does not illustrate how each coil might perform under certain ground conditions or how they handle various forms of mineralization in sand or soil.
Also, it's typical for the Sovereign or Excalibur to get more depth in some soils or sands than an air test shows in some situations due to the unique way they ignore (and so need) a ground signal, while the reverse is usually true for other machines I've owned or used. Might also be that certain coils have more of a need for a ground signal to perform at optimum levels. All these coils were tested on the clad dime at this same exact site using the same exact settings and full blast manual sensitivity, which I was able to do because it's a very low EMI environment.
http://youtu.be/cNPPYn4moOM
Also, it's typical for the Sovereign or Excalibur to get more depth in some soils or sands than an air test shows in some situations due to the unique way they ignore (and so need) a ground signal, while the reverse is usually true for other machines I've owned or used. Might also be that certain coils have more of a need for a ground signal to perform at optimum levels. All these coils were tested on the clad dime at this same exact site using the same exact settings and full blast manual sensitivity, which I was able to do because it's a very low EMI environment.
http://youtu.be/cNPPYn4moOM