Edit mode

[Anonymous]

Being a new user I have not spent any time using the edit screen until Cody's last 2 programs, so I figured I should look at this Explorer feature.
It is my understanding that the Smartfind display is divided into 1024 areas or points. 0-31 for ferrous and 0-31 for conductivity. So using the small cursor in the Edit screen I counted the number of horizontal (ferrous) and vertical (conductivity) points. Horizontal=32 points, but Vertical=31 points for a total of 992 points. <img src="/metal/html/confused.gif" border=0 width=15 height=22 alt=":?">
Anybody Know why the vertical area for conductivity in Edit is different than in Smartfind?
Thanks <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">
Greg

 

[Anonymous]

if you count the starting point as 0 then there would be 0 to 31 would be 32 positions but 0 to 32 would be 33 positions. Is that what your saying?

 

[Anonymous]

but I can't seem to find it, perhaps it was on the main Explorer forum. In any event, I agree, the conductive map will only allow 31 points to be navigated, but ferrous allows 32.
I had a semi-arguement with someone over this, so I tried mine for well over 40 times just to make sure. I originally had it wrong, and decided the ferrous only allowed 31 as well, but apparently I "bounced" the switch the first time I counted it because in 20+ attempts later it came up as 32 each and every time.
31 conductive, 32 ferrous, solid as a rock.
DAS

 

[Anonymous]

I probably tried the counts a dozen times before posting, just to make sure I was'nt doing something stupid.
Thanks
Greg

 

[Anonymous]

In the Edit screen, Using the small cursor, starting at either the left or right side, counting the starting position as 0 or 1, move the cursor one step at a time to the other side - there are 32 distinct horizontal (ferrous) cursor positions.
Starting at either the top or the bottom, counting the starting position as 0 or 1 - there are only 31 distinct vertical (conductivity) cursor positions.
Greg <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">

 

[Anonymous]

I tried that a while back and posted at least a couple of different figures. I then saw that Minelab advertises 1024 which is the same as the number of digital reading so went with that.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

because there would be no sense in having a conductivity setting of 0 as you wouldnt hear it anyway.. while ferrousity a setting of 0 allows all metals...

 

[Anonymous]

and I find myself embarrased I didn't connect the (now so terribly obvious)dots. Thanks for the helping hand!
DAS

 

[Anonymous]

However, there is a conductive setting of 0 and you do hear it. As an example 00/00 is the far right bottom of the screen and you do hear it. The digit 0 is not to be taken at ZERO as in nothing but as the lowest tone on the scale. In ferrous it is a high tone and in conductive it is a low tone. That is why in ferrous if you block the low right then the ferrous high tone is then the upper right of the display. That is why use ferrous as I do to push the high tone to the place indicated by silver which is the most conductive metal at the upper right of the display. It has always bothered me that in conductive sounds the upper left for iron is the same high tone as the upper right sound for silver. If we open the upper left of the screen then and use ferrous sounds the upper left is 31 and low but in conductive the 31 upper left is a high tone.
I think this is from the digital binary nature of the detector. So 0 is a valid digit and is the lowest tone in conductive sounds but the highest in ferrous sounds.
I have noticed that in edit the far left dot is about twice the size of other dots or pixels. The LCD for some reason is not linear as far as pixels are concerned. However, there is a 31 X 31 plus 0 for each or a 32 x 32 combination of conductive and ferrous points that can be indicated and all of them have a tone from 0 lowest to 31 highest.
I think!
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

is non-linear, they are displaying 31 points in one axis and 32 points in the other on a much higher pixel count.
In some places the cursor moves 1 pixel, in others 2, and in still others 3.
hre have been about 5 threads between this and other Minelab forums, and the concensus is that there are 32 unique cursor positions (as evidenced in Edit mode with the smallest "brush" selected) in ferrous, and only 31 in conductive.
Try it for yourself, and repeat the test several times in each axis to make sure you aren't getting a switch bounce or a missed keystroke. 32F/31C without a doubt.
One fellow told me I was mistaken, so I even did a hard reset on my machine to make sure it wasn't flaking out on me. Since then, I've tried it on two other ExpIIs, and I no longer bother checking.
I can say beyond any shadow of doubt that the three ExpIIs I have access to give 32F and 31C cursor positions. Perhaps the machine can interpret beyond the bounds of what we are given as our editable palette, but the factory locked at least these three machines to the way they are, presumably for a reason.
DAS

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I know I did all that about six months ago and concluded that the edit mode does not represent all 1024 notches. Minlab indicates there are 1024 as represented by a 1024 digital readings. The screens are a rough indication of the actual notches as far as I can tell form reading and talking to them. They indicate in their explanation that the crosshairs are approximate locations of the digital readings for the ferrous/conductive properties of the extracted data. It is one of those been there and done that kind of things and on to other areas once I realized the screen location is only an approximation. The screen is not more accurate but less so from what I understand. The attempt is to give the user an easy visual representation instead of 1024 notches that I would also like to have access to. Something like using hex instead of a binary bit data strings for easy of communication with we poor humans.
It would be nice to be able to edit and control the digital readings as you can with the DFX even if there are a lot more to deal with. I would also like to see this defined with more digits such as 5.4/22.3 thinking that it might then be more likely to tell tabs from gold rings. They can do it in other areas of industry but it may be more than we can expect in a hobby detector. I would like to see a cross between a DFX and Explorer but then you know what they say..............which in one hand and --------in the other and see which one get filled first.
I think I said I would not get off into this so will let it go so back to the more practical side of the house.
Have a good one,
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

I think the confusion is not taking into consideration that the crosshairs can read about half off the right side of the screen. This I think is ferrous 0 while the first pixel just on the screen is 1. I often see silver read with half the crosshairs off the right of the screen. The digital numbers are linear so this off the screen to the right is why you have so much trouble getting the digital reading to come out to 1024 by trying to do this in the edit mode. I learned tha the edit mode was non linear a long time ago. You will notice that you can go off screen in edit. Also, the circuits I have worked with in digital had anti-bounce so the logic stayed true.
Thought you might find this interesting and may clear up why there are 1024 which is what Minelab indicates and is the correct number.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

A low conductive reading doesnt mean a high ferrous tone, a low conductive reading on the left will still be a low tone in ferrous, ust as high high conductive reading in the upper left will be a high tone in both modes

 

[Anonymous]

and given that you can only "get to" 31x32 discreet points on the screen in edit mode, we, as users only have access to 992 programmable points of discrimination. "Only" of course is a relative term, in this case relative to the 1024 figure.
Again, the edit screen is non-linear due to the fact that there are many more pixels on the raw display than the displayable data, so some descisions had to be made by the software designers on how best to map the 32x31 matrix on the much higher resolution screen.
This is to the user's advantage since if they did a one to one mapping, our entire Smart display would be on the order of an inch on a side or so, making it much more difficult to read.
I don't see the negative effects of discussing this because the information is real, anyone with an ExpII can verify it for themselves.
As for switch debouncing, the dome type switches are notorious for bounce. Yes, the engineers did the best they could ( a good job in fact) but they still bounce from time to time. To imply that they don't bounce or it would be impossible for them to bounce shows a lack of understanding. Nothing is perfect.
DAS

 

[Anonymous]

Please don't think I am suggesting that there is a negative point to the topic. I for one very much enjoy these discussions and look forward to them. What I was saying is I really looked into that area and then moved on as I came to some conclusions about it. There are many times when I wish the discussion would go much further than they do with some good hard facts about these areas.
I think as far as the screen is concerned 0 is at the far right just off the border for ferrous and for conductive it is just off the bottom after the border. The first point we can edit is 1 for both ferrous and conductive at the bottom and far right of the playing area.
Have a great day,
HH, Cody