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Does anyone have a tip on telling when it's a screw cap?
- Thread starter rsarge1
- Start date
PowerDetecting
Member
you cant always know for sure but i notice a tone blurp at the end usually not always though and 9/10 the target has a little tail not completely circle.
MongoLloyd
New member
I have used the AT Pro for one year and I did not dig bottlecaps or screwcaps with it due to the "tone roll" audio feature. When I began using the CTX, I did dig up my share of trash. Within a month, this stopped. I don't seem to dig much trash. Over the last month I found $75 in clad alone, and probably dug less than half a dozen caps total, if that.
If the FeCo reads like a dime, 12-42, and the tone sounds like either a penny or quarter (2 different tones if using 50-tone audio), you can pretty much conclude that the target is not a quarter (FeCo = 12:45). The target could then either be a copper penny, or trash. I would skip digging that target because both are trash. I might miss out on a few Wheaties. No big deal. I find my share of them in spills, or while going after other targets.
I tested my CTX and did see differences in the target traces, between a penny and quarter. The penny seemed less defined, appeared larger in diameter, lighter in color, and seemed to need more passes to get definition. The quarter defined quickly, after a couple of passes. It was dark in color and appeared smaller than the penny trace.
If I am not mistaken, and while I do not use he feature, I believe that the CTX has the ability to size the target (a pinpointing mode). If you are reading FeCo for a dime (12-42), I would assume that with practice using the sizing option for pinpoint, you should be able to conclude whether the target is sized correctly for a dime or, if it is larger indicating possible trash.
If the FeCo reads like a dime, 12-42, and the tone sounds like either a penny or quarter (2 different tones if using 50-tone audio), you can pretty much conclude that the target is not a quarter (FeCo = 12:45). The target could then either be a copper penny, or trash. I would skip digging that target because both are trash. I might miss out on a few Wheaties. No big deal. I find my share of them in spills, or while going after other targets.
I tested my CTX and did see differences in the target traces, between a penny and quarter. The penny seemed less defined, appeared larger in diameter, lighter in color, and seemed to need more passes to get definition. The quarter defined quickly, after a couple of passes. It was dark in color and appeared smaller than the penny trace.
If I am not mistaken, and while I do not use he feature, I believe that the CTX has the ability to size the target (a pinpointing mode). If you are reading FeCo for a dime (12-42), I would assume that with practice using the sizing option for pinpoint, you should be able to conclude whether the target is sized correctly for a dime or, if it is larger indicating possible trash.
PowerDetecting
Member
gold can also fall in that range I would dig it anyway JMHO
rsarge1
Member
thanks yes I am using the sizing option for pin pointing it's just that the screw caps sound real good and is hard to pass up LOL I must have dug close to 30 of them the other day
I was digging almost every good sounding hit trying to get a feel for the machine hopefully with more practice I will get it down
sarge
I was digging almost every good sounding hit trying to get a feel for the machine hopefully with more practice I will get it down
sarge
Andrew Kalinowski
New member
I never skip 12:42 - I dug a fair bit of silver that rung just like a penny.
MongoLloyd
New member
Sarge,
Thirty caps brings back bad memories.
It gets better the more you use it, and your enjoyment of it will grow proportionally. When I first picked up the CTX after using being very competent with the AT Pro, and also using the White's Spectrum for awhile, I thought that the CTX was a trash magnet. It isn't. Quite the opposite. As stated, with the AT Pro I found my share of gold/silver and averaged about $30 a month in clad. I paid for 1/2 of the cost of the Pro in the first year with my clad finds alone. In the last 30 days with the CTX, I found $75 in clad. The month before that, $50. I received my CTX on 23May13. In two months, I have managed a 150% increase to my very consistent $30-per-month rate for clad that I had maintained with the AT Pro for a year. Next month, the world!
II thought I would miss the unique audio features of the AT Pro that helped minimize trash. I don't miss them anymore. The CTX provides plenty of data, from the FeCo numbers, to the multiple tones, to the size pinpointing, to the target trace features. Before I dig a hole, I look for matching, consistent data points. The audio should match the FeCo. The tone should match the FeCo. If you are looking at coinage, the size should match the FeCo. The data should be stable from swing to swing; the FeCo numbers should be relatively stable... the audio should be stable... etcetera. When I get consistency with two or more supporting elements, I dig.
But, everyone is different. Some dig everything above a certain number. I don't dig based on numbers. I dig based on consistent or supporting data points. To each their own. You can find the good stuff either way I suppose.
You will develop your own strategy/methodology. It's just a matter of getting used to the tones and the FeCo numbers, and getting eough swing time in to see how the CTX responds to good targets and bad targets. I think it probably takes around 100 hours to get competent with any make/model of detector, to the point where your finds increase dramatically and your trash decreases dramatically. My turning point came when I got tired of digging trash with it and decided to start closely observing the target trace data, memorizing the tones and the FeCo numbers.
I did re-test some of my gold finds. I have found none that register a FeCo anywhere near a 12-42. The rings, chain bracelet, and ear stud I have found all read around 12-12 to 12-20; with the AT Pro, they read around the nickel range (VDI =52). That said, I do dig most targets in the dime range. I have yet to recover solid gold jewelry in that range. I don't hunt nuggets, so perhaps I don't have that experience to draw from.
Good luck with it.
Thirty caps brings back bad memories.
It gets better the more you use it, and your enjoyment of it will grow proportionally. When I first picked up the CTX after using being very competent with the AT Pro, and also using the White's Spectrum for awhile, I thought that the CTX was a trash magnet. It isn't. Quite the opposite. As stated, with the AT Pro I found my share of gold/silver and averaged about $30 a month in clad. I paid for 1/2 of the cost of the Pro in the first year with my clad finds alone. In the last 30 days with the CTX, I found $75 in clad. The month before that, $50. I received my CTX on 23May13. In two months, I have managed a 150% increase to my very consistent $30-per-month rate for clad that I had maintained with the AT Pro for a year. Next month, the world!
II thought I would miss the unique audio features of the AT Pro that helped minimize trash. I don't miss them anymore. The CTX provides plenty of data, from the FeCo numbers, to the multiple tones, to the size pinpointing, to the target trace features. Before I dig a hole, I look for matching, consistent data points. The audio should match the FeCo. The tone should match the FeCo. If you are looking at coinage, the size should match the FeCo. The data should be stable from swing to swing; the FeCo numbers should be relatively stable... the audio should be stable... etcetera. When I get consistency with two or more supporting elements, I dig.
But, everyone is different. Some dig everything above a certain number. I don't dig based on numbers. I dig based on consistent or supporting data points. To each their own. You can find the good stuff either way I suppose.
You will develop your own strategy/methodology. It's just a matter of getting used to the tones and the FeCo numbers, and getting eough swing time in to see how the CTX responds to good targets and bad targets. I think it probably takes around 100 hours to get competent with any make/model of detector, to the point where your finds increase dramatically and your trash decreases dramatically. My turning point came when I got tired of digging trash with it and decided to start closely observing the target trace data, memorizing the tones and the FeCo numbers.
I did re-test some of my gold finds. I have found none that register a FeCo anywhere near a 12-42. The rings, chain bracelet, and ear stud I have found all read around 12-12 to 12-20; with the AT Pro, they read around the nickel range (VDI =52). That said, I do dig most targets in the dime range. I have yet to recover solid gold jewelry in that range. I don't hunt nuggets, so perhaps I don't have that experience to draw from.
Good luck with it.
In the parks I hunt for some reason the screw tops migrate to certain area of the park. When I leave these areas I find very few. I have found nothing fool proof in identifying them from coins. I have seen them read 41-44. Sometimes you can tell and then you can't. Yesterday I dug a Barber dime that was so thin you could see thru it. It rang up at 10-37 to 10-41. In that same area I dug several National Distillers screw tops. Yep I hit this one with digger. I never pass up a good sounding target. I enjoy this hobby because it allows me to relax and exercise these old muscles. The finds are just icing on the cake be they trash or treasures....
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
Sometimes old worn dimes can sound just like screw caps, especially if they are deep. Better dig them...
MongoLloyd
New member
Regarding the "my thin silver dime reads like a penny" stuff, once again, the FeCo of a barber might have read in the penny range, but I somehow doubt that the tone was that of a penny. None of the barbers I have dug sounds like a penny, with either the AT Pro or the CTX. They sound like silver, and at the original depth, it was clear from the depth, the tone, and the strength of the signal, that the target was probably not a penny. I can say the same thing about rosies I have found, and larger silver. Relying on VDI/FeCo as the deciding factor on whether to dig in unreliable at best. It makes no sense, when there are so many other clues that can help in the "human discrimination" process of deciding whether or not to dig. Most folks I know hunt by tone, and use depth and other factors in their decision to dig, prior to even considering the FeCo/VDI numbers. I use them mainly to confirm what I already have concluded.
There are a couple constants in MD'ing:
a) The "my detector is better than YOUR detector" crowd, and
b) Those who advocate digging everything above some arbitrary point
In regards to (a), I can't count how many times I have heard that the AT Pro can't find silver, amongst a host of other such nonsense. I have found more silver with the Pro than I have with the CTX. I have found small gold earring backs deeper than 8". It isn't the detector that matters. It is how the detector is being used that matters. Why bring this up? Because it never ceases to amaze me that people go out and buy $2500 detectors like the CTX, and then advocate disregarding the main features of such a detector... specifically, DISCRIMINATION which brings me to (b).
Discrimination, both human and machine, are important tools. They help prevent you from digging rubbish that wastes valuable hunt time. I have tried digging everything above a certain point, both with the AT Pro and the CTX. What did I end up with? A pouch filled with trash. I then began learning to use my tool, and to sharpen the human ability to discriminate, in addition to learning to use the machine's abilities to discriminate. What did this do? It caused my average finds to increase dramatically... both in clad and valuables. On average, I find around $5 in clad for a 2 hour hunt, plus other things if lucky. I went out with the CTX this morning for a couple hours. I decided to implement the "dig everything above..." strategy. I dug a great many holes. I found many, many zinc and copper pennies. I found even more screwcaps, pulltabs, bottlecaps, etcetera. My pouch is filled with trash, and my coins are few. By the way, I pretty much called each find before I dug it. I knew it was a penny, dime, screwcap, etcetera with a couple of exceptions out of the 3 dozen or so holes. Those exceptions were minor. I called a couple pennies as dimes which ended up being pennies. I can't tell how many times I have called out "Hot Wheels" car (FeCo 12-40), and have dug exactly that. We must have a collection of 3-4 dozen of them by now. I know when I hit silver, with either detector that I use. Not one of the silvers I have found, whether they be rings or coins, have fooled me into thinking that they were pennies.
I can conclude that, as applied t myself, the "dig everything above ___" strategy is simply not productive. If I am spending my time digging trash that I know is trash, I will have less time to spend digging targets that might have potential. Sure... if one were to "dig everything", they would find silver and gold. If you gave a monkey a piano, eventually, he would write an overture too.
As far as others are concerned... I advocate that people "dig everything", and that they not waste their money on advanced detectors, like the CTX, which employ discrimination; an unnecessary function if one has decided to "dig everything". Instead, go get that $100 Big 5 Sporting Goods wonder
bounty that doesn't have much discrimination, and set out to simply dig everything above, say, the foil level. Wait, some gold reads near foil. In that case, everything set out to dig everything above iron. If that works for others, it works for me! The more trash others dig, the less I will dig. The more good targets others pass over in their hunt for the perfect screwcap or pulltab 
, the more good targets will be available for me to discover! To each their own. Live and let dig trash says I.
It's a win-win situation!
By the way... my detectors are better than your detector
There are a couple constants in MD'ing:
a) The "my detector is better than YOUR detector" crowd, and
b) Those who advocate digging everything above some arbitrary point
In regards to (a), I can't count how many times I have heard that the AT Pro can't find silver, amongst a host of other such nonsense. I have found more silver with the Pro than I have with the CTX. I have found small gold earring backs deeper than 8". It isn't the detector that matters. It is how the detector is being used that matters. Why bring this up? Because it never ceases to amaze me that people go out and buy $2500 detectors like the CTX, and then advocate disregarding the main features of such a detector... specifically, DISCRIMINATION which brings me to (b).
Discrimination, both human and machine, are important tools. They help prevent you from digging rubbish that wastes valuable hunt time. I have tried digging everything above a certain point, both with the AT Pro and the CTX. What did I end up with? A pouch filled with trash. I then began learning to use my tool, and to sharpen the human ability to discriminate, in addition to learning to use the machine's abilities to discriminate. What did this do? It caused my average finds to increase dramatically... both in clad and valuables. On average, I find around $5 in clad for a 2 hour hunt, plus other things if lucky. I went out with the CTX this morning for a couple hours. I decided to implement the "dig everything above..." strategy. I dug a great many holes. I found many, many zinc and copper pennies. I found even more screwcaps, pulltabs, bottlecaps, etcetera. My pouch is filled with trash, and my coins are few. By the way, I pretty much called each find before I dug it. I knew it was a penny, dime, screwcap, etcetera with a couple of exceptions out of the 3 dozen or so holes. Those exceptions were minor. I called a couple pennies as dimes which ended up being pennies. I can't tell how many times I have called out "Hot Wheels" car (FeCo 12-40), and have dug exactly that. We must have a collection of 3-4 dozen of them by now. I know when I hit silver, with either detector that I use. Not one of the silvers I have found, whether they be rings or coins, have fooled me into thinking that they were pennies.
I can conclude that, as applied t myself, the "dig everything above ___" strategy is simply not productive. If I am spending my time digging trash that I know is trash, I will have less time to spend digging targets that might have potential. Sure... if one were to "dig everything", they would find silver and gold. If you gave a monkey a piano, eventually, he would write an overture too.
As far as others are concerned... I advocate that people "dig everything", and that they not waste their money on advanced detectors, like the CTX, which employ discrimination; an unnecessary function if one has decided to "dig everything". Instead, go get that $100 Big 5 Sporting Goods wonder
bounty that doesn't have much discrimination, and set out to simply dig everything above, say, the foil level. Wait, some gold reads near foil. In that case, everything set out to dig everything above iron. If that works for others, it works for me! The more trash others dig, the less I will dig. The more good targets others pass over in their hunt for the perfect screwcap or pulltab , the more good targets will be available for me to discover! To each their own. Live and let dig trash says I.It's a win-win situation!
By the way... my detectors are better than your detector
Johnnyanglo
Active member
So, you have a target - it's giving you a 15-12. You know it's a pull-tab because the last time you had a 15-12 it was a pull-tab. Great. However, this time if you had dug you would have found it was a buffalo nickel, or a thin gold ring with a 1ct stone, or was it a worthless button, or a metal zipper, or a .... you get the picture.
In other words, if you are confident it is trash - then move on. If you're not, then dig it. I have not yet found any reliable way to be sure that the 12-02 target at 3" is not foil and is actually a thin white gold ring, unless you dig it.
Yes, digging is tiring and time wasting ... but until someone invents the x-ray see-through detector I'm not willing to walk by a questionable target.
The corollary to this: In the end, for general purpose detecting, all I really need to know is - is it ferrous or non-ferrous. If it is non-ferrous and my detector's audio tone can be adjusted to give an intelligent response to non-ferrous, well then we've got 95% of the target ID conundrum covered. It's non-ferrous and should be dug. The other 5% is the deciding factor intelligence that is gained from those slight TID visual clues or audio nuances that come with experience.
That last 5% is where the difference between a pouch full of trash and one lacking junk. Most people would call that "learning your machine". With few exceptions, the other 95% of detector discrimination ability is not limited to any one detector manufacture. They almost all got it - even the non-metered machines. Even an audio-only detector gets you 95% confidence that it's either ferrous or non-ferrous. The 5% gain that comes from intelligent interpretation of an audio-only discrimination will be teh deciding factor in getting the goods, at depth, in fields of iron - whereas the less nuanced detectorist just walks on by.
So, if you are a beep-n-dig detectorist, then dig everything until it hurts and you are exhausted. Dig until you can't take it anymore. Then when you are ready to give up and throw your detector off a cliff due to the garbage and junk - make that paridigm shift and being thinking intelligently. That last 5% is hard to get and requires thought - but if you are going to dig smarter this is where the real difference is made.
The short answer is: Most all medium-priced detectors or better can get you the lion's share of non-ferrous target hits. Only YOU can get the last 5%.
In other words, if you are confident it is trash - then move on. If you're not, then dig it. I have not yet found any reliable way to be sure that the 12-02 target at 3" is not foil and is actually a thin white gold ring, unless you dig it.
Yes, digging is tiring and time wasting ... but until someone invents the x-ray see-through detector I'm not willing to walk by a questionable target.
The corollary to this: In the end, for general purpose detecting, all I really need to know is - is it ferrous or non-ferrous. If it is non-ferrous and my detector's audio tone can be adjusted to give an intelligent response to non-ferrous, well then we've got 95% of the target ID conundrum covered. It's non-ferrous and should be dug. The other 5% is the deciding factor intelligence that is gained from those slight TID visual clues or audio nuances that come with experience.
That last 5% is where the difference between a pouch full of trash and one lacking junk. Most people would call that "learning your machine". With few exceptions, the other 95% of detector discrimination ability is not limited to any one detector manufacture. They almost all got it - even the non-metered machines. Even an audio-only detector gets you 95% confidence that it's either ferrous or non-ferrous. The 5% gain that comes from intelligent interpretation of an audio-only discrimination will be teh deciding factor in getting the goods, at depth, in fields of iron - whereas the less nuanced detectorist just walks on by.
So, if you are a beep-n-dig detectorist, then dig everything until it hurts and you are exhausted. Dig until you can't take it anymore. Then when you are ready to give up and throw your detector off a cliff due to the garbage and junk - make that paridigm shift and being thinking intelligently. That last 5% is hard to get and requires thought - but if you are going to dig smarter this is where the real difference is made.
The short answer is: Most all medium-priced detectors or better can get you the lion's share of non-ferrous target hits. Only YOU can get the last 5%.
Screw caps are a must dig if you want gold (smaller screw caps) or silver (larger screw caps). Ain't no way around it. I never think twice about digging a screw cap.
Bottle caps, on the other hand, will usually give you a smeared tone. You just have to get the feel for them. When I do dig a bottle cap, I do think 'what did I do wrong'.
Bottle caps, on the other hand, will usually give you a smeared tone. You just have to get the feel for them. When I do dig a bottle cap, I do think 'what did I do wrong'.