Do most "Good" beach machines make good land machines?

[Mentez]

If you except the pulse machines, due to their total lack of any decent discrimination, I'm wondering what people think of this question? (Deep breath, sit down, make tea, wait for critter)

My thoughts are that if a machine performs well on the beach then it is excellent at mineralised ground and "bad" ground. In my case, and I would guess most users, 90% of our land sites are mineralised, I think that the better a machine does on the beach the better it is mostly overall.

It's like the beach is a sort of ultimate test of a detectors capabilities against bad ground, moving it to inland only makes it easier for the machine? Which leads me to believe that the gt is well up there in the "top ten" of machines. I would say that the old days of turning a machine up to it's highest setting and blasting the ground are over, I'm starting to more and more think that the key to a great detector is it's ability to "read" the ground and balance the sensitivity to prevent it from "fogging" the ground. It's ok to have the most powerful machine on the market but if it just blasts into the ground without compensating then it becomes no better than a cheap Garrett. Like a Ferrari on a rally course, pointless and far too overpowered. I'm guessing this is one of the reasons that the cheap "ace" series from Garrett have punched well above their weight for so long?

On the motion machines, there is no indication at all of "fogging" up the ground at all due to their silent operation and if you don't pick up on tiny nuances from it when it hits a target then it's impossible to tell. Which might account for the terrific advantages us gt users seem to have and even the older fishers on land?

Finally, the detecting manufacturers have succumbed to marketing gimmicks to sell you machines, with no real evidence. For instance, a couple of people I know have deus machines (not sure you have them in the states??). Well over here they are touted to be etrac killers. They are a few hundred pounds more than an etrac and have a wireless control box and wireless headphones, they are also very lightweight. In reality, as far as I have seen, they are less deep than etracs and the extra money seems to be just for the "wireless" aspects of it. Oh, it's not good on beaches either apparently I sometimes wonder if a lot of machines are really tested that much outside a lab? And don't get me started on all that "recovery speed" claptrap, another ridiculous marketing tool. I can only imagine the amount of coins/relics buried directly next to a piece if iron placed just perfectly so the machine won't see it.....probably none. I mean, you would have to be really really unlucky to have that happening to you more than a couple of times a year!

Rant over, but I do wonder what you all think about the original question, if a machine works well on a beach it'll do well on land?

 

[goodmore]

I would say that most beach machines do make good land units. Especially if you have heavy mineral content in your soil. I use a GT on land. I hunt slow so the recovery speed is never or most of the time never a problem. I use a smaller coil on land. I grew up listening yo the tone. I never have put much stock in a meter. Icons and depth readings were on a few of my detectors, but I don't miss them. So if you are asking about the GT I think it is great. I know the FBS Minelab units are some of the best hobby detectors in the world. They shine anywhere you use them except the Water.

Some of the other MFG top ends do not do well in the high mineral stuff.

 

[hershey1]

Most beach and water machines do good on land. I take my Excalibur land hunting and it does great. But there are some great land machines that won't operate well in or around water. If you go on a trip always take your water machine in case rain your trip won't be wasted. JMHO HH

 

[dbsmokey]

In response to "If you except the pulse machines, due to their total lack of any decent discrimination": I am by no means an expert on the White's TDI, but have used it a bit. It DOES have what one might deem "discrimination." Even though it's a pulse machine, one can tweak the settings to ignore iron, aluminum and find DEEP coins and gold! See the White's TDI classroom in this forum.

 

[Critterhunter]

If you except the pulse machines, due to their total lack of any decent discrimination, I'm wondering what people think of this question? (Deep breath, sit down, make tea, wait for critter)

HA! That's pretty good! Really, I'm printing out this thread to read over a smoke later (as I often do with others), so you'll hear nothing from me...Yet.

 

[Critterhunter]

If you except the pulse machines, due to their total lack of any decent discrimination, I'm wondering what people think of this question? (Deep breath, sit down, make tea, wait for critter)

HA! That's pretty good! Really, I'm printing out this thread to read over a smoke later (as I often do with others), so you'll hear nothing from me...Yet.

Told ya I'd get around to it. Really a good read and agree with most of what people have to say. I feel the same way, that beaches often offer the very worst limits in terms of ground conditions and minerals. If a machine can perform well at any beach then that's a good indicator that there is nothing on land that it also can't handle.

I'll disagree (if I read your message right) about the potential masking of targets not being a very often thing to pass over. What's mostly left in silver coins at pounding out sites are going to be two situations- Either the coins are at fringe depth or beyond the ability of most machines or at least the skill levels of your average detectorist who doesn't know how to max out the depth of the unit and what to look for, or the coin is at relatively shallow depths but masked in such a way or on edge where careful investigation knowing what responses to look for makes all the difference. Beyond all that, perhaps you could throw in rough ground conditions due to minerals, microscopic iron deposits, or hot rocks where the machine's ability is one important factor but proper calibration of things like sensitivity is also important in who gets what. The Sovereign or Excal gives you all the above abilities as good or better than any machine on the market, but it's still up to the user's skills to make it work to max potential. Back to the main point- There are probably more masked or on edge coins laying about than most people realize. It's just that they either are using a machine which doesn't have very good abilities in those respects, or they simply don't know how to uncover those targets.

 

[Mentez]

In response to dbsmokey, I've never met a single person in 20 years that uses/d a pulse machine to hunt on our inland sites........

They do NOT descriminate well enough for sites where metal finds, including plenty of ferrous, have been deposited for over 2000 years in abundance!! Maybe in the states a pulse machine might be more useful or on our beaches, but digging up 2000 years worth of nails and iron junk on UK inland sites is not my idea of a fun time.

 

[deanosaur1972]

I've never met a single person in 20 years that uses/d a pulse machine to hunt on our inland sites........

I have never met one but I have heard of other people using them on land (in the UK) on other forums.............. despite the fact that they would say they did ok, they never produce another trip report, my theory is either suicide or they can't actually get a vehicle big enough to transport all the junk.

I wouldn't even recommend a pulse machine to detect beaches in the UK, unless they detect the same beaches I cover (they wouldn't last very long!!).

 

[dbsmokey]

Mentez,

Read this forum: tdi forum

It is widely known by tdi owners that one can easily discr. out iron with the TDI and master silver coins where vlf's fail.

 

[therover]

Good point about 'fogging' the ground. I have found that a lot of trips to the beach, some of the best days are when I used a smaller coil. One can run into that nightmare scenario where you bring out the big boys only to realize the beach hot spots are full of iron, trash, black sand, and the bigger coil just won't do. Hopefully you can swap out the coil, or you brought another detector with a small coil.

 

[Mentez]

dbsmokey. I think you are missing the crux of what I'm trying to get across. It's the fact that UK sites are so full of junk iron that makes pulse machines useless (or a hard days digging, whichever way you want to look at it) over here. You've got to understand that people over here do not - with any marginal success - use pulse machines on UK soil. Maybe in the states there is not the perpetual load of junk that we get here?? Look at it like this, 2000+ years of people dropping iron about compared to what, at best maybe 300 years on the best sites in the USA? As Deanosaur puts it, you would either have to own a truck, or have a wish to go mad to use a pulse detector over here!

 

[Critterhunter]

I fully understand. I wouldn't want to use a PI at most of my land sites or even beaches. In fact, a friend had a Whites PI and he got rid of it with the quickness. He also has a Whites VLF unit (think it's called the Surfmaster, either way it's about 6 or 7 years old). Anyway, he's also got an Excal. Guess what unit has sat in the corner of his garage so long that it's probably covered in cobwebs? I'll give you a hint, it ain't the Excal. I posted a recent message a week or so ago about trying my GT on the beach in PP and All Metal modes. Unless I wanted to work all day in a 20 foot square of ground I wouldn't recommend either of those modes or a PI.

We must be lucky where I live because targets are plentiful. You hardly ever see another hunter on dry sand, let alone in the water. We've got many beaches and virtually no competition on the Great Lakes were I'm at. Same deal with our old parks and land hunting. I read these horror stories from people about no targets left in their parks any shallower than 7" deep. Man, they must live in a very tiny town where the next park is 100 miles way, because there are too many old parks and too many targets in my area.

I'm not saying that most of the easy shallow silver hasn't been picked, but I am saying I can go to certain spots and dig wheats all day long rather easy (along with a healthy amount of silver, since many times silvers on any machine will read like wheats). Just not enough people combing through and digging all borderline targets in my area.

I guess where I live does have a few perks after all. Kind'a makes up for our lousy winters. Who am I kidding, most of the population around here has left thanks to the high taxes and same party running our politics for the last 40 years. No big surprise they just arrested about 20 to 40 of these guys for corruption, yet I think the locals will still stick blindly with the same party that has drove all the business out of our city over the last twenty years.

By the way, only I could take a story about beach hunting and turn it into a knock on certain political parties. I'm not naming names and most people don't know exactly what state I live in, so no need to banish this message. I kept it real general like...

 

[goodmore]

You can add EMI to that list. I will never take a big coil on the Sovereign again with out a small one at least in the car.


Salt water helps eat that iron up faster. A PI does have a place on some American beaches. I have one and it kicks butt. But then I have the Excal in case I run into a trash nightmare.

 

[Critterhunter]

If you are in an area where the competition is so bad that they've dug any and all targets that even remotely sound off then I could see a PI because you wouldn't have as much trash to deal with. I'm talking about where I live where it's not uncommon to dig round pull tabs 2 or 3" deep, or perhaps 20 or 30 in a few hours at the beach. I swear these guys only dig one specific number on their machines, like maybe anything nickle. Just as many gold rings could read exactly like a round pull tab. I can't understand why these guys don't pick up their trash as well. Seen a guy throwing his targets right back on the sand. Went over after he left and saw some were round tabs. Thought to myself, "How many times has he dug that same round tab up over the last twenty years?" That's what I'm saying. Sure, I've seen about 5 or 6, maybe 7 dry sand hunters on my beaches this summer, but I don't think I've seen one water hunter besides the 3 or 4 guys I get together with. Even still, 6 or 7 dry sand hunters that didn't have scoops, were sweeping 1 foot off the ground, a few using Bounty Hunters (Might as well put a magnet on a stick and have a better chance at finding something). That's why I'm just in shock when I hear you guys talk about how if you don't hit your beaches at 4AM all the goodies are gone. It's really that bad for you? Move to another state. Anywhere that politicians have made it so hostile to business that all the jobs and people have left town. (HINT HINT)

 

[dbsmokey]

There is a way with the TDI to test for depth. If one has a target, and has a reasonable idea of how deep silver, rings are in the area, one may avoid the shallower targets, with practice. Ok, I have said enough before I get in over my head about it. There are those who know MUCH more than I. I am just relaying what I have read and tried.

 

[dbsmokey]

coins and tdi

 

[kered]

Wish i could do that with my DF