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do alloys affect gold detection
- Thread starter potosi
- Start date
nick hunter
New member
Hi !
The higher the K, the lower the jewel will appear on the disc scale. I personally found 18K gold chains reading slightly negative (ferrous) in the presence of wet salt sand. Disc should not be sent too high, and, in those cases, IDing the signal by ear (how it sounds) is far better than reading an ID on a display.
HH
Nick the Belgian.
The higher the K, the lower the jewel will appear on the disc scale. I personally found 18K gold chains reading slightly negative (ferrous) in the presence of wet salt sand. Disc should not be sent too high, and, in those cases, IDing the signal by ear (how it sounds) is far better than reading an ID on a display.
HH
Nick the Belgian.
Two things are at work here:
1. Gold is soft and is a poor metal for making jewelry in its pure state. SO it is alloyed with copper, which bonds easily with the gold and adds hardness. The same can be said of silver.
2. Gold itself is not a great electrical conductor, when compared to other metals. It's use in electrical/electronic applications is due to it's natural corrosion resistance, not for it's electrical conduction. In VLF motion detection, gold responds low on the conductivity (phase response) scale. This is the reason why dedicated gold detectors use a higher frequency than GP and coin units - gold responds better to the higher frequency.
So we alloy gold with copper to strengthen it, which reduces the amount of gold in the sample. This copper then raises the total phase response closer to the coin range and, voila! The lesser golds like 10K and 9K come in higher up the scale.
1. Gold is soft and is a poor metal for making jewelry in its pure state. SO it is alloyed with copper, which bonds easily with the gold and adds hardness. The same can be said of silver.
2. Gold itself is not a great electrical conductor, when compared to other metals. It's use in electrical/electronic applications is due to it's natural corrosion resistance, not for it's electrical conduction. In VLF motion detection, gold responds low on the conductivity (phase response) scale. This is the reason why dedicated gold detectors use a higher frequency than GP and coin units - gold responds better to the higher frequency.
So we alloy gold with copper to strengthen it, which reduces the amount of gold in the sample. This copper then raises the total phase response closer to the coin range and, voila! The lesser golds like 10K and 9K come in higher up the scale.
[quote Scully]White gold has more nickel in it and will read very low on the scale. Black HIlls gold has more copper mixed in it and will read higher on the scale. They truly can read from foil all they up to copper on a typical conductivity scale.[/quote]
Isn't that a kick, Scully?
If a beeper has any interest in jewelry, VID & TID have almost no use whatsoever!
And I've never met anyone who would turn down a $3,000 diamond ring with a diamond stone that is itself undetectable.
There is really no option but dig 'em all!
HH
rmptr
Isn't that a kick, Scully?
If a beeper has any interest in jewelry, VID & TID have almost no use whatsoever!
And I've never met anyone who would turn down a $3,000 diamond ring with a diamond stone that is itself undetectable.
There is really no option but dig 'em all!
HH
rmptr
That said, ID machines do give a slight advantage in that rings will read very repeatable with numbers and ID hardly varying no mater which way you sweep the target, but tabs and pull tabs can and usually are erract and the ID numbers will jump around a lot more. So when ever I see a "TAB" bar light and but the ID Number is very tight, I dig it!
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Got to throw my nickel in the pot.......
I found a thin little silver ring. It gave a round tab id. I found a bigger silver ring, it hit as a quarter. The difference? Size.
I found a thin little 10K gold ring. It read as medium foil. I found a large 10K class ring, it hit as a zinc penny. The difference? Size.
Same thing with gold nuggets. Small gold reads low on the scale. Large gold reads high on the scale. Most gold machines run at higher frequencies because small gold is more common than large gold and higher freq machines hit on small gold better.
So there are two things at work here. The natural conductive nature of the material and the size of the material.
HH
Mike
I found a thin little silver ring. It gave a round tab id. I found a bigger silver ring, it hit as a quarter. The difference? Size.
I found a thin little 10K gold ring. It read as medium foil. I found a large 10K class ring, it hit as a zinc penny. The difference? Size.
Same thing with gold nuggets. Small gold reads low on the scale. Large gold reads high on the scale. Most gold machines run at higher frequencies because small gold is more common than large gold and higher freq machines hit on small gold better.
So there are two things at work here. The natural conductive nature of the material and the size of the material.
HH
Mike
Youre all right. Thats a great thing about this: it IS predictable to a great extent.
Want to really get to know jewelry? Turn off coins and anything below foil. If you have no ID features, then dig only the midrange targets that fall between these two extremes.
It wont be long until you have it figured out - and just how much stuff masquerades as gold.
Honestly, there is no way to know about all of it.
Want to really get to know jewelry? Turn off coins and anything below foil. If you have no ID features, then dig only the midrange targets that fall between these two extremes.
It wont be long until you have it figured out - and just how much stuff masquerades as gold.
Honestly, there is no way to know about all of it.
Jackpine Savage
Active member
and in my experience higher karat rings will read higher on the scale, size for size than lower karat ones. So thickness and purity are the key.
HH Tom
HH Tom
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Well rmptr,
Saying I change around a bit would be a bit of a understatement I suppose. I guess the only machines you could say I have that actually stick around through thick and thin are the Golden and the Tracker IV.
Last couple of months it would the Golden, and a Tracker IV, a Explorer II, a M6, the F-75, and just lately another CoinStrike. I've sold the Explorer, sold the M6.
I placed the F-75 and CoinStrike up for sale today and will be buying a NIB CoinStrike soon.
HH
Mike
Saying I change around a bit would be a bit of a understatement I suppose. I guess the only machines you could say I have that actually stick around through thick and thin are the Golden and the Tracker IV.
Last couple of months it would the Golden, and a Tracker IV, a Explorer II, a M6, the F-75, and just lately another CoinStrike. I've sold the Explorer, sold the M6.
I placed the F-75 and CoinStrike up for sale today and will be buying a NIB CoinStrike soon.
HH
Mike
How fun to play with the different machines, Mike!
Is the explorer really a slow sweeper?
Interesting to see you going back with a new CoinStrike...
Do you have any plans regarding the new White's PI machine?
Does anyone ever have a clue when Tesoro might release a new machine? LoL
HH
rmptr
Is the explorer really a slow sweeper?
Interesting to see you going back with a new CoinStrike...
Do you have any plans regarding the new White's PI machine?
Does anyone ever have a clue when Tesoro might release a new machine? LoL
HH
rmptr
[quote Mike Hillis]...I placed the F-75 and CoinStrike up for sale today and will be buying a NIB CoinStrike soon.
HH
Mike[/quote]
Wow Mike, I gotta say I'm surprised and then again not surprised. I'm REALLY enjoying the simplicity and power of Tesoro, but may just pick up another C$ one day.
w
HH
Mike[/quote]
Wow Mike, I gotta say I'm surprised and then again not surprised. I'm REALLY enjoying the simplicity and power of Tesoro, but may just pick up another C$ one day.
w
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
I'm always asking myself, "If I could only have one machine, would this be the one?"
So far, for me, there are only two contenders, taking in all factors: Tesoro's Golden MicroMax and White's DFX.
Regarding the Explorer it all depends on what you are looking for. If you just use the audio and skip the visual id you can sweep it just as fast as a Tesoro and still do well. But if you use the visual meter you have to move it slow. Not a bad thing as sometimes you want to go reallllyyyyyyysssssssllllllllooooooooowwwwwwwww and the Explorer supports that type of hunting really well. But so does the Cortes in all metal mode
They are all good, just depends on what floats your boat.
The CoinStrike is a unique machine. Even though the user interface sucks, it does what it does very well. And that is finding round objects in hot ground with stone cold setups.
I have no personal plans about Whites new TID PI unit. I don't think I care to dig any deeper than I already can
Regarding Tesoro's new target id unit, I expected it out last spring but the rumor was there were some testing failures. I bet it will be worth the wait though when it does come out. When I called Tesoro and asked some questions I was told I would find it unique. wait and see
HH
Mike
So far, for me, there are only two contenders, taking in all factors: Tesoro's Golden MicroMax and White's DFX.
Regarding the Explorer it all depends on what you are looking for. If you just use the audio and skip the visual id you can sweep it just as fast as a Tesoro and still do well. But if you use the visual meter you have to move it slow. Not a bad thing as sometimes you want to go reallllyyyyyyysssssssllllllllooooooooowwwwwwwww and the Explorer supports that type of hunting really well. But so does the Cortes in all metal mode
They are all good, just depends on what floats your boat.The CoinStrike is a unique machine. Even though the user interface sucks, it does what it does very well. And that is finding round objects in hot ground with stone cold setups.
I have no personal plans about Whites new TID PI unit. I don't think I care to dig any deeper than I already can
Regarding Tesoro's new target id unit, I expected it out last spring but the rumor was there were some testing failures. I bet it will be worth the wait though when it does come out. When I called Tesoro and asked some questions I was told I would find it unique.
wait and see HH
Mike
WoW!
Thanks Mike!
You sure do make excellent presentations.
Here in my part of CA I enjoy really good soil, and my choice of places to hunt is where Xtreme digging would probably be a crime and basically, unnecessary. The notch WIDTH adjustment of the Golden uMax is a feature that would be valuable to me.
I've never had the opportunity to try a Golden.
I'm always leery of running the notch even though I do quite a bit on my Pantera.
Width adjustment would be great!
And I would most likely do the GB mod just because it's a good idea.
I've got other machines for water and sensitive deep seeking searches, but don't use them much.
From what I've seen, elsewhere, more targets are missed with a DFX because of the learning curve...
Apparently it's a very capable machine, but complicated.
I'd like one for the challenge!
Thanks Mike!
HH
rmptr
Thanks Mike!
You sure do make excellent presentations.
Here in my part of CA I enjoy really good soil, and my choice of places to hunt is where Xtreme digging would probably be a crime and basically, unnecessary. The notch WIDTH adjustment of the Golden uMax is a feature that would be valuable to me.
I've never had the opportunity to try a Golden.
I'm always leery of running the notch even though I do quite a bit on my Pantera.
Width adjustment would be great!
And I would most likely do the GB mod just because it's a good idea.
I've got other machines for water and sensitive deep seeking searches, but don't use them much.
From what I've seen, elsewhere, more targets are missed with a DFX because of the learning curve...
Apparently it's a very capable machine, but complicated.
I'd like one for the challenge!
Thanks Mike!
HH
rmptr
All this talk of which detector is best, only goes so far. I've been detecting now for 20 years and have found there is no perfect detector, contrary to ad or forum hype.
How would you know anyway? This is one of those situations where you dont know what youre missing, after all.
But, when it comes to finding gold jewelry based on its conduction properties (our aim in this discussion), one thing becomes clear in short order:
The vast midrange is our chosen territory
Silver, and US coins in general, are easy to ID, out at the high end of conduction. Iron is easy, too, in its low end position. They stand out by virtue of their position, the "wingmen" of the detection world.
But gold masquerades like so many other things - or vice versa - that it is near impossioble to predict it with certainty. The original question hints that gold jewelry in the normal detection settings is a featured aim. With the price of gold seemingly without ceiling these days, that is not a bad aim at all. If this is so, then you need a detector with features that support that. The Tesoros with the ED 120 and ED -180 disc circuits do so and the Golden especially so, with its notch. My Garretts with their wide span GTA displays, notch and tone ID do so, too.
Now such detectors dont produce gold by magic, mind you. They only offer the right features and respond as needed where gold jewelry already exists. Thats true of all detectors, no matter what we seek.
So, it bears repeating...if you wanna find gold jewelry, go where it is - both physically and mentally.
Use notch and graphic displays to help isolate targets to the conduction mid-range.
Use detectors and coils that have fast target response and good target separation, since gold jewelry is so often accompanied by trash.
Use the tools for digging and retrieve targets.
Go where the most people with money enough to own gold have gone before, have been active and so stand the chance to lose their jewelry
I'd reiterate my previous comment here and suggest you hunt in only the midrange for a month. Ignore all coins and all targets below foil. Dig all targets you encounter in this month and take account of the results. This is disciplined hunting, not easy work, and it will seem fruitless after the gazillionth pulltab. But I recall finding a nice gold ring in a city park last season with my Golden. I was set up just this way, and that ring responded dead on as a nickle/pulltab - 2" down and midrange tone, notching out at standard pulltab adjustments. The Golden knows only conductivity ranges and it said it was a pulltab. That ring would still be lying there if I had trusted only that.
How would you know anyway? This is one of those situations where you dont know what youre missing, after all.
But, when it comes to finding gold jewelry based on its conduction properties (our aim in this discussion), one thing becomes clear in short order:
The vast midrange is our chosen territory
Silver, and US coins in general, are easy to ID, out at the high end of conduction. Iron is easy, too, in its low end position. They stand out by virtue of their position, the "wingmen" of the detection world.
But gold masquerades like so many other things - or vice versa - that it is near impossioble to predict it with certainty. The original question hints that gold jewelry in the normal detection settings is a featured aim. With the price of gold seemingly without ceiling these days, that is not a bad aim at all. If this is so, then you need a detector with features that support that. The Tesoros with the ED 120 and ED -180 disc circuits do so and the Golden especially so, with its notch. My Garretts with their wide span GTA displays, notch and tone ID do so, too.
Now such detectors dont produce gold by magic, mind you. They only offer the right features and respond as needed where gold jewelry already exists. Thats true of all detectors, no matter what we seek.
So, it bears repeating...if you wanna find gold jewelry, go where it is - both physically and mentally.
Use notch and graphic displays to help isolate targets to the conduction mid-range.
Use detectors and coils that have fast target response and good target separation, since gold jewelry is so often accompanied by trash.
Use the tools for digging and retrieve targets.
Go where the most people with money enough to own gold have gone before, have been active and so stand the chance to lose their jewelry
I'd reiterate my previous comment here and suggest you hunt in only the midrange for a month. Ignore all coins and all targets below foil. Dig all targets you encounter in this month and take account of the results. This is disciplined hunting, not easy work, and it will seem fruitless after the gazillionth pulltab. But I recall finding a nice gold ring in a city park last season with my Golden. I was set up just this way, and that ring responded dead on as a nickle/pulltab - 2" down and midrange tone, notching out at standard pulltab adjustments. The Golden knows only conductivity ranges and it said it was a pulltab. That ring would still be lying there if I had trusted only that.