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Digi-meter question.....

Mark ( ohio )

Well-known member
I haven't used the sov GT in a long while, actually since I mounted the meter to the shaft... But last evening I took the set-up out for an hr of hunting.. I have the unit set to band #2, which I believe was the reconmended setting for this meter..

Anyway, heres the question..All the coin targets ( ie. copper pennys, dimes and quarters ) all rang in at 180..?? Shouldn,t there have been better resolution in the break-down of numbers.. I'm thinkin the penny might have been176-177?? Dime at 177-178??.. If it does indeed dump all the coin #'s into the 180 figure.. that does me no good at all..

Any thoughts and/or suggestions.

Mark ( ohio )
 
Everything above copper penny reads 180. Copper pennies like wheats can read around 176 to 179 but many copper pennies will just read 180. Zincs read 173 or 176. That's the only coin I care about is zincs when I feel like avoiding them. Far as old coin hunting I've owned machines that could tell you different coin types and ended up digging a lot of silvers that the machine said was a penny or something else, due to being deep, masked, on edge, ground minerals, being worn, etc. So I don't trust coin resolution. The differences between coins in conductivity is so very close that it's highly unreliable to have high resolution on that part of the scale, and it also makes the coin appear jumpy in ID to look like trash IMO. If I'm old coin hunting and a coin is deep or is shallow but is masked, then I'm digging it no matter what the machine tells me it thinks it is. Dug too many nice old coins or silvers that the machine told me was a clad or a penny even.

You can somewhat tell what the coin is anyway by how the ID acts and the "sweetness" of the audio. Does it linger around 176 to 179 or so before going 180? Probably a copper penny. Gets up there a hair quicker to 180? Probably a clad dime. Gets to 180 even faster and the signal seems a little more broad? Clad quarter. Jumps real fast to 180 and stays there real quick? Could be a silver dime or quarter, and the tone is often just a little higher/sweeter in pitch too. I can 9 times out of 10 call a wheat just by it's sweet "I'm old and been in the ground a while" sound for instance.

But, I want stability and just an idea it's a coin when I'm old coin hunting. The stability of some high resolution flagship machines on targets I've owned and used is rather jumpy on coin IDs. If you are the kind of person who likes to use ID stability as a clue to dig or not you'll get frustrated like me with how "floaty" the ID is when you have high resolution in the coin range. If I'm clad hunting though I only want to avoid the zincs, and I can do that with ease due to the ID, but when I'm old coin hunting if it's deep or is shallow but in trash I want as stable of a "I'm a coin" ID as I can pull out of it and just want to know it might be a coin, and that requires a more "broad" coin window in ID IMO.

Far as other coins down the scale, haven't run into a machine yet that I know of with as high of conductivity resolution from foil all the way up to copper penny. Awesome for those odd old coins that read lower, or for nickles. Nickles are distinctly 4 digits or so lower than the lowest tabs 99% of the time, so it's a pretty sure bet to dig those. I've hammered some old nickles all over the place at pounded out sites for that reason, and also because the audio is so "round" and distinct on them.

The super high resolution from foil to copper penny on the 180 meter is where I want detail. For instance, I can avoid say 3 to 5 pesky tab #s at a park and dig everything 1 digit off looking for gold rings or other great finds. Also, the high resolution in the low to mid range makes the VDI a useful tool for avoiding odd shaped trash. Most round targets (rings, coins, buttons, etc) will lock onto 1 or 2 IDs no matter which way you sweep over them. Odd shaped trash will often range by 3 digits or more depending on your angle of sweep. Not a hard fast rule for both in all cases but it does have a high percentage of probability that round stuff is 2 digits or less and non-round stuff usually will go 3 digits or more.

Some may say that 2D discrimination is more high in resolution. Well, depends on how you look at it. In using the Etrac in the field just about all targets are compressed into the 12th ferrous line. And the ferrous # can range wildly anyway on a good target so most guys will for the most part ignore the ferrous #. Lacking that as a sure bet guide, you've now got a conductivity range of 1 to 50 to gauge targets by. Copper pennies start at about 38 or so in VDI on it, so you've got pretty much a 1 to 38 conductivity range to split hairs on targets versus about roughly 60 or 70 where foil starts on the 180 meter all the way up to about 178, 179, or 180 to gauge targets in that range on the Sovereign/180 meter.

Meaning? Ignoring a few tab #s on a 1 to 38 scale while land hunting for rings will have you blocking out a wider range of targets than it will n the 180 meter, and nickles are far less of a sure bet on machines with lower resolution than the Sovereign in the low/mid range. I love figuring out what say the top five most commond tab #s are at a site and then digging everything else just 1 digit off. And surprisingly the high resolution VDI in the low to mid range (foil up to copper penny) isn't very jumpy on the Sovereign at all. Rather easy to constantly sweep over a target and have it settle on a # if it's round, where as when using the FBS units the conductivity ID will keep moving around on me and I just don't like that. All that said, I prefer the VDI setup on the Explorer over the Etrac for the 12th line compression thing. I could get much more target traits out of the target with the smart screen on my Explorers than I can with the Etrac. That's one of the reasons I'm getting another Explorer and passing on the Etrac (along with price and the more flutey audio on silver). Besides, many say they are pretty much a wash between each other on depth and separation so long as you are using the right coil. Some guys like a few things better on one, and some like a few things better on the other. It's a Chevy/Ford type of deal IMO.

Anyway, if you are one who say clad hunts and wants to be able to somewhat tell quarters from say dimes or copper pennies, then the Sovereign's ID won't really do that clearly (although it has some traits to notice and tell here and there). Also, if you are an old coin hunter and want to have an idea what a deep coin or one in trash *might* be, then once again the Sovereign isn't going to give you a clear VDI for anything above copper penny. I can tell you though that even on the best of modern machines with high coin resolution I myself (and my friends currently using such machines) will often dig a lot of clads that weren't what the ID said they looked to be, not to mention that happens with say silvers versus clads, and silvers versus pennies. You have to decide what you want to have in VDI. I can tell you that often my friends with high resolution on coins with their machines (one guy in particular) just digs any "coin" above about 38 in VDI, because he only wants to know it's a coin of above copper penny or higher in resolution. If you try to cherry pick the silver and leave the clad you are going to leave a bunch of silvers behind and other good coins that weren't clads.

The Sovereign for me suits my style, because I only want high resolution when avoiding trash in the low to mid range for say gold rings or relics or something. Everything that is a coin when I'm old coin hunting I'm digging. The only exception is I might avoid a few zincs when they are all over a site, and the 180 meter will ID those for you.
 
By the way, not picking on high resolution on any one specific machine for coins. I've owned a few 6000 Pro XLs too, and the analog meter was very accurate on splitting hairs on say a silver dime or quarter versus the clad versions. But, I also dug quite a few silver dimes or quarters on that machine that read just a bit lower, right at where the clad version reads. Why? Some were worn, some were on edge, some were masked, some were due to ground minerals. You just never know. The resolution between a clad dime, clad quarter, and the silver versions, along with copper pennies, is SUPER thin between them. Far less distinction in conductivity than there is on targets lower on the scale, so it can be very picky to try to skip "clads" and only cherry pick what you think is a wheat, or a silver dime, or a silver quarter. That's MO anyway.
 
for me !! Thanks Mucho..I still gotta say, ( since ya already mention whites )... my old eagle II black box is aces for cherry pickin clad/silver.... I always know a zinc, from a copper, from a dime, to a quarter.. the #'s are spot on 99/100 times.....

Now with the meter installed, I concentrate more in the nickle / pulltab range to figure out what may actually be a gold keeper..

Stand by.. Mark ( ohio )
 
Like I said, if you avoid digging coins that you think are clads then you are going to miss silver, because every machine I ever owned with high coin resolution I've dug plenty of silver dimes and quarters that read like a penny or a clad version of them. Minerals, depth, masking, being on edge, etc. I've even dug some that were not any of this and not even worn, yet for some darn reason they read lower on the scale as some other coin. Can't tell you how many targets I dug that I was sure were wheats since a machine told me they looked to be, and yet out pops a silver dime.

If you want to know the coin types above copper penny then the Sovereign is not for you for sure. I don't when I'm old coin hunting as for the stated reasons I gave above in the prior message. I only want to split hairs on zincs when there are a billion around and I can do that with the Sovereign. Mainly I like to use high resolution on land when say gold ring hunting. I can visually note and avoid say 1, 2 or even 4 to 7 or so VD#s for common tabs at a site and dig all targets 1 digit off. If I want to be even more picky I'll sweep the target from two 90 degree angles and if the ID ranges by more than 2 digits then I'll pass knowing it's probably odd shaped trash and not a round ring, button, coin, or some other round find. Very deadly to avoid a lot of trash when you are being picky, and that's due to it's super high VDI. On machines I've owned with low resolution it was mostly impossible to look for a jumpy VDI on junk in the low/mid range, because the VDI # for a target is much wider, so the VDI can stay rock stable even if it's say an oddly shaped piece of aluminum or foil. This ability of the super high VDI for low/mid range on the Sovereign is one of it's deadliest weapons for finding gold rings or other good stuff while ignoring a ton of trash when you want to be picky like that.

I've owned machines like the Sovereign that lumps all coins above copper penny into one zone, such as the QII/QXT/QXT Pro (owned all of these machines over the years, and several of each). Same deal with it. Zincs with a separate zone but all coins copper and up are in only one zone. I dug a lot of silver with that machine since I feel a "wider net catches more fish", so to speak. Same deal with the Sovereign. I'm one who prefers a wider net for coins myself, but I know others prefer to get a hint as to the coin type. You can do that with the Sovereign by paying attention to both the size of the hit (quarters are wider) and also how fast the VDI gets up to 180 as I said in the prior message. The tone is also key, as wheats seem to have a somewhat softer/sweeter tone than clads, and silvers seem to be even a hair more higher in pitch/sweetness. Not 100% full proof but it does give you an idea often and with practice you'll find you are right more often than not.

Wheats can also read in the 176 to 179 range. Often even if they go to 180 they'll linger down there for a while until you work then up to 180 with the wiggle. You've got to constantly wiggle or very short sweep over targets to get the VDI to pull the best ID and also show you the target's traits. Watch how fast and easy it gets to 180 and often that, combined with the tone's "sweetness", will tell you what it might be.

For instance, when I dug my F-12 condition 1921 standing liberty quarter a month or two back, soon as I swept over that coin it went "180" right away and instantly. No working it up to 180. First pass with the coil and it's right in your face "180". Now, at depth, it might take more work to get it up there, but you'll learn that such and such coin at such and such depth should be "this easy" to get to climb to 180, while others will be "this hard" to get to get it there. So as the depth increases, all the coins are a bit slower in their climb, but based on the depth (how loud it is) you can adjust your thinking for how hard, slow, or fast, all the coins should be to climb to it. This quarter was from memory about 5" deep if I remember right or so. A silver that shallow should pretty much go 180 right off the first pass of the coil for the most part.

Far as nickles go, I can tell you that they read as high as about 144 to 146 or so, where as 99.9% of all round or square tabs will start at right either 148 or 149 and go up to about 169. So it's very easy to cherry pick nickles. If you note in the charts there are also MANY other coins that read lower than 180, so you've got some strong ability to search for say a gold coin or a 3 cent piece or something lower on the scale while still avoiding a lot of trash. Such is the beauty of the super high low/mid range resolution on the Sovereign. My QXTs there was no way I could avoid tabs and only dig nickles due to them overlapping each other in resolution.

Same deal with many machines that have all the resolution expanse in the above copper penny range for trying to split hairs on coins. Often they've got rather poor resolution below copper penny down to foil, so not as easy to say avoid tabs or other junk and dig nickels, or not as easy to block out a few pesky tabs and dig everything else hoping for a gold ring.

The high resolution of the Sovereign combined with it's excellent long drawn out detailed audio makes it as good as it gets if you can even hope to be selective on gold ring hunting on land while trying to avoid some trash IMO. Not to mention it'll bang on even a super thin gold ring at some jaw dropping depth. The Minelabs don't do well on fine gold chains or tiny gold earings thought, but way I look at it most gold lost is in the form of rings, so that's what I'm after on land. Besides, I've owned machines with good fine gold sensitivity and they made for a bumpy/noisy ride for my tastes on land and had me chasing solid sounding hits that turned out to be tiny pieces of nothing. I'd rather that stuff sounds sick or is ignored, so long as the Minelabs will bang hard on thin rings at depth (which they will, because the ring, though super thin, is a complete large loop that makes a big picture to the detection field).

Only time I'd like to hear the fine gold stuff is water hunting, because then it's easy to just scoop all that tiny foil and other junk. There are other machines that will do that, but of course probably not at the depth an Excalibur or Sovereign will get on the coins and rings, so there is a trade off for everything in life.

Just like you have to decide what kind of resolution you want in VDI on coins for your hunting style, same deal with if you do or don't want fine gold sensitivity. Everybody has different tastes and needs, but mine are suited for what I want exactly as I want them in terms of old coin hunting or hunting for gold on land. Only "con" to the Minelabs for me is that on the beach or in the water I wouldn't mine hearing the tiny stuff for tiny/find gold potential, but I wouldn't trade that for depth on gold rings if I had to make a choice. Just MO, and others have very different needs, so you have to find out what you need and pick a machine on that decision. If everybody had the same needs we'd all be using one machine and there wouldn't be any other models/brands. Just like cars and trucks, we all have to figure out what we need for our wanted situation.
 
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