Randy, explain in full how you set up your detector to hunt in a discrimination pattern with No Discrimination and just tones. Which Pattern? Do you just use the neg. key and take it to 0 ? Which Tone Setting? What is the step by step, I would like to try this out the way you hunt, Thanks Rick
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Digging by Tones
- Thread starter botlmole
- Start date
Mick in Dubbo
New member
While I'm not Randy, I have a crack at your question.
You can run your detector in all metal mode so that you can hear when you have iron next to good targets, but the main thing is to get used to how various targets sound. It's actually quite surprising what your ears will tell you about a target. While the numbers are handy, it's mostly how a tones sounds. ie Does sound scratchy (like foil does) is is an even sweet tone. How big is it, how wide is the signal. How strong/weak does it sound, how consistent is it? The numbers will always be there to help, but often your ears can tell you that you have a good target, when the screen is telling you a bit of a fib (it can be easily fooled). The prospecting mode can also tell you about the target when you want to pinpoint it.
It takes time to pick up the subtleties in the tones, although some are pretty obvious. It's when you focus on the minor variations (which takes more than a few hours) that you really start to get good at hunting by ear. I have found that even after I have had a couple of hundred hours on the detector, I find that I learn something new every 30 hours or so (if I'm looking).
One of the tips that Des Dunne (Minelab) gave, was that if you put your detector into multi tones, then a pull tab will a multi tone while a good target will give a more solid single tone.
the best way I like to learn is to play around with various targets in my back yard and ask my self, I wonder questions. It's lots of fun and you'll learn heaps about your detector in the process.
Mick Evans.
P.S. One other interesting thing. An iron target can often give you a high tone when it passes under ther centre of the coil, however, as the target passes from under the coil (all types) then it will low tone. A dead give away.
You can run your detector in all metal mode so that you can hear when you have iron next to good targets, but the main thing is to get used to how various targets sound. It's actually quite surprising what your ears will tell you about a target. While the numbers are handy, it's mostly how a tones sounds. ie Does sound scratchy (like foil does) is is an even sweet tone. How big is it, how wide is the signal. How strong/weak does it sound, how consistent is it? The numbers will always be there to help, but often your ears can tell you that you have a good target, when the screen is telling you a bit of a fib (it can be easily fooled). The prospecting mode can also tell you about the target when you want to pinpoint it.
It takes time to pick up the subtleties in the tones, although some are pretty obvious. It's when you focus on the minor variations (which takes more than a few hours) that you really start to get good at hunting by ear. I have found that even after I have had a couple of hundred hours on the detector, I find that I learn something new every 30 hours or so (if I'm looking).
One of the tips that Des Dunne (Minelab) gave, was that if you put your detector into multi tones, then a pull tab will a multi tone while a good target will give a more solid single tone.
the best way I like to learn is to play around with various targets in my back yard and ask my self, I wonder questions. It's lots of fun and you'll learn heaps about your detector in the process.
Mick Evans.
P.S. One other interesting thing. An iron target can often give you a high tone when it passes under ther centre of the coil, however, as the target passes from under the coil (all types) then it will low tone. A dead give away.
Hunting by ear...............First thing to do is take one of the Patterns and set it up with none of the notches rejected. You can use any of the Patterns you want. Jut pick one that you haven't saved for something else. When you tune to this new Pattern, reject each of the notch segments using the Accept/Reject pad. Use the +/- pad to move to the next notch you want to change.
I prefer hunting in zero discrimination compared to All Metal mode for two reasons...... One is that when you turn on the X-TERRA, it starts up in the last Pattern mode you were using. It will not start up in All Metal. If the last time you used it, you shut it down in All Metal, it will still start up in the last Pattern mode you used. To save time in the field and make sure I am hearing all the targets, I programmed one of my Patterns as having zero discrimination. That way, when it starts up, I know I am in a zero discrimination hunt mode. The second reason I prefer zero discrimination in a Pattern to All Metal is because it reduces the amount of iron "wrap around". In the testing I've done, I have been able to detect highly ferrous targets in All Metal that were "totally confused" when using a Pattern with zero discrimination on the 705 and 305. I could, however, get an audio response and a TID of -9 when using the 505 in a zero discrimination Pattern. What I have concluded is that the notch segment values are universal between the three detectors. In other words a TID of 36 on the 705 will also be a 36 on the 505 and the 305. A TID of 12 on the 305 will also be a 12 on the 505 and 705. However, since the 705 and 305 do NOT have a notch segment -9, the target does not have a notch segment to be assigned to when using a Pattern mode. In All Metal, these targets will bounce between -8 and +48 on the TID of the 705. When I switch to a Pattern mode with zero discrimination, they would usually stabilize on the -8 notch segment. From what I've learned, I believe the reason they weren't "sent" to the +48 notch segment is because that high conductive +48 notch segment of the 705 is much narrower by design, than the other notches. With all that said, I will add that I've detected some areas are littered with hundreds of deeply buried (rusty) nails. At these sites I will also build a separate Pattern with all the notch segments set to accept, except +48. By rejecting +48, combined with hunting in a Pattern mode opposed to All Metal, I've been able to identify the majority of those rusty old nails. I just hope that I don't reject that old mason jar full of silver dollars when notching out +48!
Another important factor in "hunting by ear" is to use multiple tone audio. Software programming is set up to categorize each metallic target into a designated notch segment. And, each of those notch segments is associated with a tone corresponding TID. In other words, each of the 28 tones of the 705 matches one of the numbers in the TID. And for the most part, every metallic target possesses the properties that allow the detector to determine which notch segment that specific target "belongs" in. By using multiple tones, you have allowed the detector to provide a different audio tone for each of the notch segments. Therefore, when you use multiple tones, you have allowed the 705 to provide you with a tone that matches the TID. With a bit of practice, you will be able to tell what the corresponding notch segment is, as well as the TID, based solely on the pitch of the audio response provided by each target. The lower the pitch, the more ferrous the target. The higher the pitch, the more "non-ferrous" (conductive) the target will be. This is important to me because I know the audio tone is produced from "raw data" being sent to the X-TERRA. The visual TID, on the other hand, is provided after that signal has been processed. As some of you may have noticed, this causes a slight delay in the displayed number, compared to the audio response. For me to maximize the time I spend in the field, and minimize the time I spend glancing at the meter, I prefer to hunt by ear. Using a Pattern with zero discrimination, combined with multiple tones, gives me the audio information I need to make the determination whether a target needs further investigation or not. If it gives me a low tone (or a set of harmonic tones) that I associate with iron, I keep on swinging. If it makes a tone that I recognize as being something I'm interested in, I'll follow up with my three rules of consistency.
Although the answer may sound complicated, the process is not. It is simply a matter of learning how the detector responds to different target situations. If you find the number of tones using zero discrimination is too much for your ears to decipher, don't be afraid to set one or two of those "trash notches" to reject. Just know that instead of hearing a tone on those target values, you'll get a blanking effect. (silence or interrupted Threshold). Personally, I prefer to hear all the signals because blanking is more likely to mask out adjacent targets, compared to listening to it all and letting your ears sort it out.
If you've not had a chance to look through the eBook, I'd suggest you take a look at the sections on My Settings, pages 86 and 87. Also take a look at my theory on Circular Discrimination on pages 77 & 78, and my Three Rules of Consistency on pages 66-68. Together they should provide you enough information on target properties, discrimination and audio responses to help you better understand why I like to "hunt by ear". If you have additional questions, I'd be glad to take a crack at them.
HH Randy
I prefer hunting in zero discrimination compared to All Metal mode for two reasons...... One is that when you turn on the X-TERRA, it starts up in the last Pattern mode you were using. It will not start up in All Metal. If the last time you used it, you shut it down in All Metal, it will still start up in the last Pattern mode you used. To save time in the field and make sure I am hearing all the targets, I programmed one of my Patterns as having zero discrimination. That way, when it starts up, I know I am in a zero discrimination hunt mode. The second reason I prefer zero discrimination in a Pattern to All Metal is because it reduces the amount of iron "wrap around". In the testing I've done, I have been able to detect highly ferrous targets in All Metal that were "totally confused" when using a Pattern with zero discrimination on the 705 and 305. I could, however, get an audio response and a TID of -9 when using the 505 in a zero discrimination Pattern. What I have concluded is that the notch segment values are universal between the three detectors. In other words a TID of 36 on the 705 will also be a 36 on the 505 and the 305. A TID of 12 on the 305 will also be a 12 on the 505 and 705. However, since the 705 and 305 do NOT have a notch segment -9, the target does not have a notch segment to be assigned to when using a Pattern mode. In All Metal, these targets will bounce between -8 and +48 on the TID of the 705. When I switch to a Pattern mode with zero discrimination, they would usually stabilize on the -8 notch segment. From what I've learned, I believe the reason they weren't "sent" to the +48 notch segment is because that high conductive +48 notch segment of the 705 is much narrower by design, than the other notches. With all that said, I will add that I've detected some areas are littered with hundreds of deeply buried (rusty) nails. At these sites I will also build a separate Pattern with all the notch segments set to accept, except +48. By rejecting +48, combined with hunting in a Pattern mode opposed to All Metal, I've been able to identify the majority of those rusty old nails. I just hope that I don't reject that old mason jar full of silver dollars when notching out +48!
Another important factor in "hunting by ear" is to use multiple tone audio. Software programming is set up to categorize each metallic target into a designated notch segment. And, each of those notch segments is associated with a tone corresponding TID. In other words, each of the 28 tones of the 705 matches one of the numbers in the TID. And for the most part, every metallic target possesses the properties that allow the detector to determine which notch segment that specific target "belongs" in. By using multiple tones, you have allowed the detector to provide a different audio tone for each of the notch segments. Therefore, when you use multiple tones, you have allowed the 705 to provide you with a tone that matches the TID. With a bit of practice, you will be able to tell what the corresponding notch segment is, as well as the TID, based solely on the pitch of the audio response provided by each target. The lower the pitch, the more ferrous the target. The higher the pitch, the more "non-ferrous" (conductive) the target will be. This is important to me because I know the audio tone is produced from "raw data" being sent to the X-TERRA. The visual TID, on the other hand, is provided after that signal has been processed. As some of you may have noticed, this causes a slight delay in the displayed number, compared to the audio response. For me to maximize the time I spend in the field, and minimize the time I spend glancing at the meter, I prefer to hunt by ear. Using a Pattern with zero discrimination, combined with multiple tones, gives me the audio information I need to make the determination whether a target needs further investigation or not. If it gives me a low tone (or a set of harmonic tones) that I associate with iron, I keep on swinging. If it makes a tone that I recognize as being something I'm interested in, I'll follow up with my three rules of consistency.
Although the answer may sound complicated, the process is not. It is simply a matter of learning how the detector responds to different target situations. If you find the number of tones using zero discrimination is too much for your ears to decipher, don't be afraid to set one or two of those "trash notches" to reject. Just know that instead of hearing a tone on those target values, you'll get a blanking effect. (silence or interrupted Threshold). Personally, I prefer to hear all the signals because blanking is more likely to mask out adjacent targets, compared to listening to it all and letting your ears sort it out.
If you've not had a chance to look through the eBook, I'd suggest you take a look at the sections on My Settings, pages 86 and 87. Also take a look at my theory on Circular Discrimination on pages 77 & 78, and my Three Rules of Consistency on pages 66-68. Together they should provide you enough information on target properties, discrimination and audio responses to help you better understand why I like to "hunt by ear". If you have additional questions, I'd be glad to take a crack at them.
HH Randy
I do exactly as Digger said with the discrimination. I may have to notch 48 and -8 in heavy nail areas and I also swing a littler slower when notched. If I hear the Blanking effect as Randy calls it I will switch back to all metal or pinpoint mode to see how big it is. If large I probe it with a glass probe to see if it's a lid.
