Just wondering how many detectoest are out there who agree with me. We all know that we get what the MFG sends to us. But again we know that the coil and the unit are separated. Due to this there isn't one person sitting there making sure every coil is optimum to every unit. From a MFG stand point they "parts" work together and it ships out the door. What if we send our detectors back to the company and have them "Tune" our coils to our machine? I know the companies are over done with repaired but I'm just saying. If it was possible it would make what we have so much better. To have a technician to sit down and tune our machine to optimum levels would be too cool.
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Detector tuning
- Thread starter EZrider
- Start date
Frank in NH
Active member
n/t
BarberBill
New member
I think this is of much more benefit with detectors that have preset ground balance rather than manual or true auto ground trackng.
BB
BB
What is "this" I am referring to? It is checking and calibrating (if possible) a particular coil with the unit it will be shipped with. To ensure that a unit is working properly prior to leaving the factory, the control housing and a search coil are connected and the detector is checked out. If there are some internal trimmers, for things such as Ground Balance, etc., that can be trimmed up on the assembly, that is done. Then, THAT control housing and THAT search coil are set on a cart with others that have passed a final check-up and this would then go to shipping. In shipping they take the control housing and coil that were checked out together, add the necessary rods and other things in the box, then get that 'package' ready-to-go.
Do ALL manufacturers do this with all models? No, I don't think so.
If you have a model with either Manual Ground Balance, or a TRUE, Auto-Tracking circuity, then all you need is to include a search coil that has been properly designed, calibrated, and functions within "spec."
If the model is a "turn-on-and-go" type, then you need to make sure the coil and control system are compatible prior to it leaving the factory, but this isn't always easy. In some cases, a model might have an internal Ground Balance trimmer, such as on a Tesoro Silver
Do ALL manufacturers do this with all models? No, I don't think so.
If you have a model with either Manual Ground Balance, or a TRUE, Auto-Tracking circuity, then all you need is to include a search coil that has been properly designed, calibrated, and functions within "spec."
If the model is a "turn-on-and-go" type, then you need to make sure the coil and control system are compatible prior to it leaving the factory, but this isn't always easy. In some cases, a model might have an internal Ground Balance trimmer, such as on a Tesoro Silver
Its a service offered in Britain for Tesoro. You can also have a small circuit added with an external switch. When you buy an extra coil they add the circuit and flick the switch to select the optimised setting.
Other mods are adjustable GB added to the preset detectors and pre set added to adjustable machines for beginners to get them started.
Detectors that are heavy on a single PP3 cell have an external battery back of 6 AA's mounted under the armrest.
Other mods are adjustable GB added to the preset detectors and pre set added to adjustable machines for beginners to get them started.
Detectors that are heavy on a single PP3 cell have an external battery back of 6 AA's mounted under the armrest.
ChuckDiggin it in Florida
New member
Offering the "over there" detectorists more than they are offering "over here"
I wonder if the people "over there" consider us "over there" people?
I wonder if the people "over there" consider us "over there" people?
ChuckDiggin it in Florida
New member
I bet if I owned a metal detecting manufacturing company, i'd be offering every update and tuning I could make a buck on!
The only downside I see, would be an unscrupulous act!
Building machines with a preplanned deficiency and then selling the fix?
{ This is my conspiracy theory, but it is about all detectors produced in stages, not about Fisher in particular }
As it is, "I BELIEVE" most companies build a top of the line detector and then cut things out to "FIRST" sell the lesser machines and then introduce the other models up to the one they designed 1st.
For instance- and I am just using this as an example and don't know it to be true at all- Fisher designs an F75LTD, then introduces an F2, then F4, then F5, then F70, Then F75, Then last of all, the original design, the F75LTD. Such a program sells a whole lot more detectors than starting out introducing the original creation and then offering cheaper detectors, with less options?
The only downside I see, would be an unscrupulous act!
Building machines with a preplanned deficiency and then selling the fix?
{ This is my conspiracy theory, but it is about all detectors produced in stages, not about Fisher in particular }
As it is, "I BELIEVE" most companies build a top of the line detector and then cut things out to "FIRST" sell the lesser machines and then introduce the other models up to the one they designed 1st.
For instance- and I am just using this as an example and don't know it to be true at all- Fisher designs an F75LTD, then introduces an F2, then F4, then F5, then F70, Then F75, Then last of all, the original design, the F75LTD. Such a program sells a whole lot more detectors than starting out introducing the original creation and then offering cheaper detectors, with less options?
Depends on who the company is. Tesoro will do this for you. I've sent an almost beat-to-death Tejon in and Rusty did a bang up job of "tuning" it so it worked like new. Problem right now, is that companies like Minelab are having a run of business with a high demand, they're trying to satisfy, so getting a tune up on a ML machine is probably going be a lengthy wait.
I was told many years back (by a designer who worked for Fisher) that in the U.S. the majority are easily pleased and only have to be told a thing is better then will believe it. How many have a, or several, test beds for instance..I only once made the mistake of trading in a detector that I liked for the new "improved" version. From then on I would buy the follow up model and run it alongside the old one and select which was best and often new didn't mean better.
Dealers don't help in most cases but you can see where they are coming from. They might be able to get a $1000 detector for $500. So why import a tweaked version thats only an inch or two deeper that a European has had to pay far more for what with transport/import duties, then added the cost of the mods and third party warranty ending up that the U.S. dealer might have to pay $1200 so if he still wanted to make $500 profit the tweaked machine would have to sell at $1700. So its in their interest to just ignore the fact there is a better version.
As for getting more, its not for free as a Tesoro for instance (applies just the same with other major brands) thats $500 in the U.S. with a lifetime warranty becomes an $800 or $900 detector with a two year warranty by the time it hits Britain.
Dealers don't help in most cases but you can see where they are coming from. They might be able to get a $1000 detector for $500. So why import a tweaked version thats only an inch or two deeper that a European has had to pay far more for what with transport/import duties, then added the cost of the mods and third party warranty ending up that the U.S. dealer might have to pay $1200 so if he still wanted to make $500 profit the tweaked machine would have to sell at $1700. So its in their interest to just ignore the fact there is a better version.
As for getting more, its not for free as a Tesoro for instance (applies just the same with other major brands) thats $500 in the U.S. with a lifetime warranty becomes an $800 or $900 detector with a two year warranty by the time it hits Britain.
ChuckDiggin it in Florida
New member
[size=medium]Hi Brian
I was just totally joking.
I have no doubt that your scenario is right on the mark too![/size]
I was just totally joking.
I have no doubt that your scenario is right on the mark too![/size]
Well, that might work if it weren't for the fact that the 1st introduced was the Teknetics T2, then the F75. It was a year or two, IIRC, before we saw the F2,, F5, and F70. Then probably another year before they tweaked it into the LTD.
This sort of thing is the opposite from what First Texas does. They introduce the best they have first and then offer some models built off the same sort of platform with fewer options and less power... for less money.
I don't think it would well serve any detector company to hold back their cutting edge technology because while they were playing games another company would pass them by.
You don't really think that do you?
J
This sort of thing is the opposite from what First Texas does. They introduce the best they have first and then offer some models built off the same sort of platform with fewer options and less power... for less money.
I don't think it would well serve any detector company to hold back their cutting edge technology because while they were playing games another company would pass them by.
You don't really think that do you?
J
ChuckDiggin it in Florida
New member
I stand corrected then!
jbow said:
ChuckDiggin it in Florida
New member
If this is the case, I am wrong! =
Quote
jbow
Well, that might work if it weren't for the fact that the 1st introduced was the Teknetics T2, then the F75. It was a year or two, IIRC, before we saw the F2,, F5, and F70. Then probably another year before they tweaked it into the LTD.
Quote
jbow
Well, that might work if it weren't for the fact that the 1st introduced was the Teknetics T2, then the F75. It was a year or two, IIRC, before we saw the F2,, F5, and F70. Then probably another year before they tweaked it into the LTD.
BarnacleBill
New member
Because that concept is living in the past. As time has marched forward we've gone from Analog, to Discrete Logic, to Microprocessor, to Digital Signal Processor and allied to that Microprocessors with Analog modules on-board.
OK, so what? Well, once you get to the Microprocessor you can build in intelligence. And you can put that intelligence in the Coil which allows several things to happen:
1. When the Coil is manufactured the Coil can be told what it is, in essence "Self Awareness". It can then tell the Control Pod who/what it is.
2. It can be asked to make electronic measurements of itself along with temperature readings which affect "tuning", and either make the corrections itself to the Coil, or report it's current state to the Control Pod processor, which will compensate for the changes in the coil tuning. Therefore the combined system of the Coil & Control Pod tune the Coil "On the Fly" in real time. This far surpasses the method of sending a Coil and detector in every so often to have it "tuned".
3. These "Smart" Coils also allow much better manufacturing consistency and yield, since the Coil can measure itself during final testing and report it's health. There are fewer "Hot" & "Cold" coil/detector reports which means each user ends up with closely matched performance.
There is an impediment to manufacturers implementing these type of systems, their existing Coil models. When they bring out a new detector they want to have as large a variety of existing Coils be compatible. That helps sell the detector in the short run, but also limits pushing forward with more advanced technology. This is a rhetorical question and not meant as a digg. "How much better would the White's V3 be if they had not tried to stay tied to the past with the old existing Passive Coil technology and adopted Smart Coils with the latest Processors?"
And what about those "on-board" trimmers to compensate for Ground Balance on detectors that don't bring that feature out to the control panel? That's the manufacturer's decision to bring out a model without GB control. That's why you pay a little more for an upmarket model, it fits within their marketing plan. How many times have the instructions for bringing that trimmer out to the front panel on Tesoro's been posted? Tesoro left it off the front panel on purpose, as there is a portion of the market that will have trouble with learning to GB.
Finally does that mean "tuning" of these new digital based designs are not possible? Not in the least, there is a limited amount of real estate on a circuit board to add "trimmers", and there are even certain characteristics/parameters that can't be adjusted! But via a software update which in the future will be made via USB port, or even in the future wireless like Bluetooth, is where thousands of "tuning" items can be changed.
How will one know when these new type of systems are being released? Look for new detector model lines that are NOT compatible with existing Passive Coils. If a manufacturer is only producing new "Control Pods" compatible with existing coils they are stuck in the past. And in the end they may up in the "tuning" business to survive, as they lose market share to forward looking companies.
HH
BarnacleBill
OK, so what? Well, once you get to the Microprocessor you can build in intelligence. And you can put that intelligence in the Coil which allows several things to happen:
1. When the Coil is manufactured the Coil can be told what it is, in essence "Self Awareness". It can then tell the Control Pod who/what it is.
2. It can be asked to make electronic measurements of itself along with temperature readings which affect "tuning", and either make the corrections itself to the Coil, or report it's current state to the Control Pod processor, which will compensate for the changes in the coil tuning. Therefore the combined system of the Coil & Control Pod tune the Coil "On the Fly" in real time. This far surpasses the method of sending a Coil and detector in every so often to have it "tuned".
3. These "Smart" Coils also allow much better manufacturing consistency and yield, since the Coil can measure itself during final testing and report it's health. There are fewer "Hot" & "Cold" coil/detector reports which means each user ends up with closely matched performance.
There is an impediment to manufacturers implementing these type of systems, their existing Coil models. When they bring out a new detector they want to have as large a variety of existing Coils be compatible. That helps sell the detector in the short run, but also limits pushing forward with more advanced technology. This is a rhetorical question and not meant as a digg. "How much better would the White's V3 be if they had not tried to stay tied to the past with the old existing Passive Coil technology and adopted Smart Coils with the latest Processors?"
And what about those "on-board" trimmers to compensate for Ground Balance on detectors that don't bring that feature out to the control panel? That's the manufacturer's decision to bring out a model without GB control. That's why you pay a little more for an upmarket model, it fits within their marketing plan. How many times have the instructions for bringing that trimmer out to the front panel on Tesoro's been posted? Tesoro left it off the front panel on purpose, as there is a portion of the market that will have trouble with learning to GB.
Finally does that mean "tuning" of these new digital based designs are not possible? Not in the least, there is a limited amount of real estate on a circuit board to add "trimmers", and there are even certain characteristics/parameters that can't be adjusted! But via a software update which in the future will be made via USB port, or even in the future wireless like Bluetooth, is where thousands of "tuning" items can be changed.
How will one know when these new type of systems are being released? Look for new detector model lines that are NOT compatible with existing Passive Coils. If a manufacturer is only producing new "Control Pods" compatible with existing coils they are stuck in the past. And in the end they may up in the "tuning" business to survive, as they lose market share to forward looking companies.
HH
BarnacleBill