Detector Batteries Make a Difference

[earthmansurfer]

I posted this in the Teknetics forum but thought I really should have posted it here:

I've been reading a bit about detectors and batteries and came across a review that mentioned that after this person replaced the cheap alkalines in his Tejon with Energizers, the detector got more powerful. I think there might be something to this, for batteries usually operate in different ranges (depending on the quality). That said, metal detectors probably limit volts and amps, don't they? Anway, what if the volts/amps of cheap batteries (or even rechargeable's) are lower than that threshold? Wouldn't the detector be less powerful?

Anyway, I've been using cheap alkalines in my T2 but I just ordered some Energizer Lithium batteries off ebay (9 Euro for 4, shipped!) which have a substantially higher amperage (according to their website) than alkaline That is if I interpreted this correctly: Energizer Battery Data. The before mentioned article mentioned it's the amps that matter. This got me thinking about the rechargeable's I use as well. I'm going to compare the depth on an air test first and will let you all know how things go. BTW - I'm not connected to Energizer or any other related companies.

Any experiences out there?

Here is the quote, taken from Gary's metal detecting site:

The Tejon and battery's from Andy
Hiya Gary

Several months ago I made the decision to trade my Goldmax for a Tesoro Tejon pro, with a 12x10 web coil I purchased a detector from crawfords which is where I met Craig, he very kindly bolted the machine together in doing so fitted some batteries in called panasonic industrials these are freebie batteries that come with the machine, I left the shop and within a few days I was in the fields with my new Tejon Ultimate, at the time I thought the overall performance of the Tejon was adequate, I tried various set ups but I was a little disappointed with sensitivity towards small objects, your advice was very helpful, but for a high frequency machine I was not over impressed, although the depth was good I felt it could have been better, after a few more outings I decided to change the batteries, again acting under your instructions I decided to go with Energizers.

From the moment I switched the machine on I was in awe of the true potential of the machine, replacing the batteries with energizers totally transformed the Tejon, it now had the ability to detect tiny objects at great depths even as small as my little finger nail at 8-10 inches down with a crystal clear signal, the detecting was performed on ploughed land, this has been a great learning curve for me (I kinda thought that all batteries where the same, some just lasting longer than others, I now realise that this is far from the truth) all the functions of the Tejon were greatly improved from the ground balancing to the discrimination and sensitivity etc.

If it was a car I was talking about you would think I had just put nitro's in it. If anyone buys one of these machines make sure that you use quality batteries i.e. energizers and not freebies or budget ones, our further discussions were very interesting I think you should make more people aware of your battery tests, I cant believe a high performance 9volt battery pumps out 5.5amps where as a ordinary 9volt only pumps out 0.5/1amps. It is the amps that makes the difference.
I would urge people to read the full report on your site

 

[AUDuke]

All vlf detectors have a voltage regulator built into the circuit, as long as the batteries voltage is above the minimum required there is no difference in the performance of the detector, except that better quality batteries will last longer. when the voltage drops below the min. the detector ceases to operate.

 

[srf2112]

All alkalines should be fine and about the same earthmansurfer. The lithiums are the same also they just last much longer. ( and are much pricier, as you already know )
HH
Scott

 

[TheOtherLeggoHead]

Sanyo Enelopes. Best one out there. Period.

 

[earthmansurfer]

All vlf detectors have a voltage regulator built into the circuit, as long as the batteries voltage is above the minimum required there is no difference in the performance of the detector, except that better quality batteries will last longer. when the voltage drops below the min. the detector ceases to operate.

But the article mentioned amps, not volts, as being key and the batteries I am talking about are higher in amperage. I got my batteries and will just do an air test comparison...

 

[mwaynebennett]

Its not "amps," it is amp hours that counts. It may be expressed in milliamp hours.

Mark

 

[Dwayne2010]

If a detector manual says to use alkaline, what is the risk of using lithium instead? What is the difference?

 

[BobbyBridge]

I have been thinking about rechargeables, anybody have any luck with them?

 

[thebeatmachine]

The voltage of a battery is determined by what they are made of. 1.5v IS a standars because of what they are made of. a car battery has 6 cells of 2.1v because of what they are made of and a NIHM has 1.2 volts because of its chemical make up as well. So cheap batteries may leak, or be half dead from being too old or cheap, but if they are the same stuff if they are rated at 1.5 volt as Duracells or Energizer.

 

[Critterhunter]

Most detectors these days (like anything built since the 80's or so) use voltage regulators. What that means is no amount of juicing up a battery in voltage or amps does anything for the performance. If the machine calls for 9V to run it might take 8 AA batteries which equals 12V in total voltage in series. The regulator takes that 12V and drops it down to whatever the machine needs to operate at a steady state. If you try to add extra cells in series and thus voltage to a detector all you are doing is heating up that voltage regulator and thus probably it's going to blow or if you are lucky it will shut down on what's called a thermal overload and work again once it cools off and resets.

You see, many regulators (most commonly used) are linear and what that means is in a nutshell they take the extra voltage and get rid of it by turning it into heat, which is why these regulators usually have a large heat sink of them to bleed it off. That also makes them fairly inefficient since they are wasting the extra power from the battery.

Switching regulators are more efficient in that they won't shunt off the extra voltage by turning it into heat. Instead they use a a form of pulse width modulation (or at least that's what I'd call it, might not be the exact technical name but the theory is similar) in that they'll control the voltage by pulsing the output on and off at a given rate. The quicker it's pulsed on the higher the voltage and vise versa. I'm no expert on switching regulators so I might have the details of those a bit wrong but that's how dimmer switches on house lights work...they change the rate or "pulse" of voltage to the light and thus by turning the dial you can dim the switch by changing the speed at which voltage is pulsed to the light.

Now when it comes to battery capacity (usually measured in milliamps) that also makes absolutely no difference in power to a detector. A detector or any other device will only draw the amount of amps it needs regardless if the battery is the size of an AA or a house for that matter. If it wants say half an amp then that's what it draws. The higher the capacity or amperage of the battery only relates to how long it can supply power at a given amp draw, and also has some impact on the highest amount of amp draw it can sustain, which is often referred to at least with Lipo cells as a "C" rating. That's another topic but bottom line is you can't juice up a conventional detector by supplying it with more voltage or higher amps (capacity) in the way of cells. It ain't going to happen due to the regulator in terms of voltage, and as said amp delivering ability of the cell does not force a detector to use or run on more amps, it just allows it to run longer with a higher capacity cell.

Rechargables are rated at 1.2V per cell versus 1.5V per cell for regular batteries. However, I have yet to run into a device that rechargables didn't work perfectly fine with due to the regulator. If anything, using rechargables might be easier on the machine due to less heat generated at the regulator if it's a linear one. On the other hand, most high capacity nimh cells will charge to a somewhat higher voltage than 1.2 volts. Or, if anything, the higher capacity of a good nimh AA (like say 2500ma or higher) will thus sag less under voltage and so as the pack drains it's voltage will stay higher than a conventional battery for a longer period of time. In other words, you can expect longer run time out of a good high capacity nimh cell than you can a store bought regular battery. As a result of that the voltage of the regular cell will soon be lower than the rechargable as they both drain. Bottom line- Using rechargables in your machine does NOT lower performance, and there's a good chance it will increase your run time on a device.

 

[morelic55]

Ditto!! I use them in my Xterras and they last a looooong time and recharge fast!!!

Sanyo Enelopes. Best one out there. Period.

 

[thebeatmachine]

NIMH are what I use all the time with no issues. The will put out the same voltage until the very end and then they just go dead so they are great Thats why they use them in Hybrid cars.

 

[silversmith]

Hey guys, Coppertops are Tops! Can't beat 'em. They are cheap by the Multipak at Costo. Why fight it. While probably true about detectors and voltage regulators, probably not true with pin pointers so keep only the best (check with a Dmm) and select the highest voltage one for your pin pointer. Cool tool!

 

[Neil]

I posted this in the Teknetics forum but thought I really should have posted it here:

I've been reading a bit about detectors and batteries and came across a review that mentioned that after this person replaced the cheap alkalines in his Tejon with Energizers, the detector got more powerful. I think there might be something to this, for batteries usually operate in different ranges (depending on the quality). That said, metal detectors probably limit volts and amps, don't they? Anway, what if the volts/amps of cheap batteries (or even rechargeable's) are lower than that threshold? Wouldn't the detector be less powerful?

Anyway, I've been using cheap alkalines in my T2 but I just ordered some Energizer Lithium batteries off ebay (9 Euro for 4, shipped!) which have a substantially higher amperage (according to their website) than alkaline That is if I interpreted this correctly: Energizer Battery Data. The before mentioned article mentioned it's the amps that matter. This got me thinking about the rechargeable's I use as well. I'm going to compare the depth on an air test first and will let you all know how things go. BTW - I'm not connected to Energizer or any other related companies.

Any experiences out there?

Here is the quote, taken from Gary's metal detecting site:

The Tejon and battery's from Andy
Hiya Gary

Several months ago I made the decision to trade my Goldmax for a Tesoro Tejon pro, with a 12x10 web coil I purchased a detector from crawfords which is where I met Craig, he very kindly bolted the machine together in doing so fitted some batteries in called panasonic industrials these are freebie batteries that come with the machine, I left the shop and within a few days I was in the fields with my new Tejon Ultimate, at the time I thought the overall performance of the Tejon was adequate, I tried various set ups but I was a little disappointed with sensitivity towards small objects, your advice was very helpful, but for a high frequency machine I was not over impressed, although the depth was good I felt it could have been better, after a few more outings I decided to change the batteries, again acting under your instructions I decided to go with Energizers.

From the moment I switched the machine on I was in awe of the true potential of the machine, replacing the batteries with energizers totally transformed the Tejon, it now had the ability to detect tiny objects at great depths even as small as my little finger nail at 8-10 inches down with a crystal clear signal, the detecting was performed on ploughed land, this has been a great learning curve for me (I kinda thought that all batteries where the same, some just lasting longer than others, I now realise that this is far from the truth) all the functions of the Tejon were greatly improved from the ground balancing to the discrimination and sensitivity etc.

If it was a car I was talking about you would think I had just put nitro's in it. If anyone buys one of these machines make sure that you use quality batteries i.e. energizers and not freebies or budget ones, our further discussions were very interesting I think you should make more people aware of your battery tests, I cant believe a high performance 9volt battery pumps out 5.5amps where as a ordinary 9volt only pumps out 0.5/1amps. It is the amps that makes the difference.
I would urge people to read the full report on your site

I dont think the batteries make any difference other than its best to use a quality battery to reduce the chance of leakage.

The experience the person has who is swinging the detector is going to make your biggest difference, but you cant buy that, you have to earn it

 

[Critterhunter]

If you are going to buy regular non-rechargable batteries then the best I've found for length of run time is the Energizer Lithiums. They are also about 1/3rd the weight of a regular 8 pack so it really helps drop some weight of the machine. Somebody gave me a bunch of them for free so I use them in things when I don't want to mess with my rechargables or I want to lighten something up. They are more expensive but I bet they'll give you about 2 to 3 times the normal run time. I know they do for me in some devices I've used them in.

In terms of lightest power to weight density and holding the voltage high to the very end of the cycle goes, nothing beats lipo battery technology. At about 1/4th the weight or so of a convention nimh or nicad yet with MORE capacity these things are the wave of the future. I used them in my detector and my electric RC planes, but they require special care and a charger meant for them. They also have the ability to provide high amps (around 60 amps with a pack about half the size of a pack of smokes), which is important for high speed brushless RC motors. Heck, I even jump started a car with one. When you start seeing these get cheap enough to go into electric cars you'll see the milage (or run time) of the vehicle go way up and yet the weight way down. That's when electric cars will come of age. Nimhs and nicads, as good as they are, just aren't quite good enough.

 

[BarberBill]

The only time I've ever had a detector problem related batteries was when they were on their death bed. I always use good quality, name brand alkalines and never have a problem.
BB

 

[Dan-Pa.]

I always felt a new set of batteries or a fresh recharged battery just worked a little better myself, but indeed modern detectors are regulated to use only so much power so if in the area not requiring a change probably not much difference...Indeed all batteries are not created equal and where the difference comes in is how long they last. Going without headphones, using the night light or for some reason excessive pinpointing will decrease your batterry life so matter what brand you use but would use a brand named alkaline at least or perhaps rechargeables with a high rating and don't fast charge them use the overnight charge. Shop around for prices, sales and thru experience will find what works best for you in your unit...

 

[Darkflight]

And frankly....Nada zip difference in functionality. No long term test but sensitivity,depth & discrimination were unaffected.

I used a Troy X2 as it needed a new battery. I use the Ray-o-Vac heavy duty carbons with no issues. They are 2 for a buck at Wally World. After reading this thread I bought an Eveready coppertop $3.99 a pop battery. I read some comparisons online & it had the best specs for an off the shelf battery.

I tried them both & can't tell any difference. The pricey one may last longer. But I get 12-16 hours per battery with the cheapies so I have no complaints there.

May make a difference on some units.

I was told on the Teknetics forum a greek letter unit-the 400 IIRC-was inoperative as I used the same cheap battery for an in store test. I doubt the claim but can not say for certain if the unit I tested was defective or just freaked out on the Ray-o-Vac . If so I'd call that a design flaw-not a battery issue.

 

[Critterhunter]

One other minor thing to add. If switching regulators are more efficient then why aren't they used in all devices? Two reasons, they are more expensive but most importantly they generate a lot of noise. Even if extra noise cancelling components are added they can still sometimes be too noisy for certain products.

Another handy use for regulators is being able to power several different devices that require different voltage inputs off the same battery. For instance, in one of my RC planes that I use for aerial video/still shots the camera I use wants a lower power input than the 12.6V lipo battery I use to run the plane motor, so I've got a linear regulator on that...saving the weight of using a separate battery just for the camera. The servos and RX on the plane also want a different voltage (5V), so they also have a separate regulator (called a BEC in RC) to drop the 12V source battery voltage down from. As said the plane more runs on the 12.6V 3 cell lipo, so the beauty of it all is all the components are running off one signal battery. A linear regulator is tiny and weighs much less than even a single AA battery.

Rather than re-hash it all there is a long thread in the Sovereign forum where we cover everything from chargers, to shelf batteries, to rechargeable nimhs, nicads, and lipos. Read that thread and you'll be an expert on battery technology. It's useful for any detector as well and even covers Etracs and other detectors, but the main theme is the general function and use of rechargeable and chargers. We even cover a cheap $25 computer charger complete with display and programming functions that has more features than ones costing $150 or more. It's big in the RC plane crowd but excellent for any situation where rechargeable are used. It will also do nimhs, nicads, lipos, and several other newer battery technologies. It'll condition your packs, put them to a good sleep charger, and so on. Check it out. Nothing can match it in price and no I don't have a financial interest in that company. Just a great charger.


http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1178409

 

[dirtdigginlady]

n/t