Deep targets as ferrous on the XT-70?

[brissietex]

Hi all...

Coming from a CZ-70 where deep fringe targets TID as iron, I was wondering how the X-Terras handle deep fringe targets in the various modes. I am using the XT-70 with the stock 9" 7.5 coil but would love to hear about other coils.

btw, I am digging up iron using All Metal mode but never ran into any non-ferrous material other than our Aussie 5 cent coins which seem to rust really easily but bounce between non-ferrous and ferrous most of the time.

ciao...BrissieTex (off to find myself that 5x10 coil :>)

 

[mtdoramike]

n/t

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi,

I'm sure it depends on ground mineralization. In many places target id drops with depth. I've heard of some areas with it rises with depth, but that has not been my general experience. Except that if the id drops low enough, the VDI will wrap around and go hi "hot rock" on you.

I have some pea gravel in the schoolyards here that drastically reduces depth on all machines, and believe me I've tried lots of them. And all of them get lower VDI numbers on targets the deeper you bury the target in the stuff, until you finally get an iron reading. This is not unusual; not one machine I have ever tried yet does not do this to some degree. My theory is the deeper the target, the higher the ratio of ground mineral to metal you are getting until the machine sees so much ground mineral it calls the target ferrous.

Machines I have tries include the Explorer, CZ series, MXT, Vaquero, Troy X-5, X-Terra units, and more. A bunch of the best. All do it.

I was getting VDI wrap on deep targets, and some deep coins pulled so low they wrapped around back to extreme high VDI as "hot rocks". This does make it look like the VDI was pulled higher when it actually was being pulled extremely low.

The coil makes a huge difference. The larger coils simply see even more ground to target, and so make the effect worse. Smaller coils or DD coils can do better than stock coils in most cases by reducing the ratio of ground to target.

So, with that lead in, I found the X-Terra units in the discriminate mode to be somewhat middle of the pack in this particular regard. BUT, I have just got the 3 kHz coil for my X-Terra 70 and it may help. The DD coil may also help. So the jury is still out as far as I am concerned.

What I do know for sure is in disc mode the targets are much weaker than in the Prospecting Mode on my X-Terra 70, and that I have taken to using the Prospecting Mode in the pea gravel. The digging is easy, and targets you cannot get at all in the disc mode read loud and strong in the Prospecting Mode. The X-Terra 70 has a very powerful true all-metal hunt mode the X-Terra 30 and 50 lack and which is alone worth the extra money for the unit for what I do.

Steve Herschbach
Alaska Mining & Diving Supply

 

[brissietex]

Steve,

Thanks for your thorough explanation of how deep fringe targets are handled by any detector. It makes sense...I have done a bit of detecting in pea gravel before with my CZ-70 and I got really frustrated. Now, I know why I should've had the smaller 5" coil instead of the 10.5" coil.

cheers...Keith

 

[BarnacleBill]

you describe is something I deal with on a regular basis, being that about a dozen of the lakes I frequent have an ancient volcano as their epicenter. Some of this I described in previous posts here:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,308289,308289#msg-308289

and here:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,321332,321332#msg-321332

There is a larger chunk of one of the culprit minerals(basalt) in the sand and gravel I deal with, at a particular beach, and I always take the opportunity to check every new detector against it. In the picture you can see me pinpointing it with the X70, and notice the ID. I recently ran a cz20 w/ 10.5 inch coil over it as well as an Edge, both produced overload signals. Having deep targets shoved down in ID and wrapping is nothing new to me, that's why I always check the wrappers and deep weak ferrous by kicking away some sand and re-sweeping.
[attachment 25599 basrock.jpg]

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Today out of about 10 deep targets that bounced ferrous/non-ferrous and did not show as iron with the foot scrape or when using Monte's EPR, only one was non ferrous. The rest were iron with the exception of one hot rock. These were deep targets in a freshly plowed field, all but a couple were below this years plow line. I did not consider it all that bad really. Things did get better, after digging the hot rock I dropped the GB one number lower. No more hot rocks and shallow iron was a bit easier to deal with.

Tom

 

[Jackpine Savage]

at a fresh water beach that initially read -8/48 and gave mostly a high tone. As I removed sand the ID dropped down until finally at double digit depth the pennies appeared. I dug 4 in a row all starting out reading the same way and dug no iron, which from using other detectors I know is there. Thought I would mention this as a counterpoint to yesterdays post about the plowed field where the bouncers were mostly iron.

I was very impressed to say the least as I have never dug coins anywhere near that deep before on the beach and the 70 got 4 in literally a few minutes. There is a beach a half hour away from me that is known to have old coins, I hope this performance repeats there.

Tom

 

[Tinfoil]

Hi, may I ask why you decided to dig a bouncing wrap around signal such as the -8 to 48 id. Or was it the high tone that made you dig the signal. I have a 70 comming along with the hi Freq 5x10 coil. Just wondering. I am trying to get as much info: on this machine as I can. I have not been on any forms for a while as some of you already know me. My computer bit the bullet twice with some real bad viruses that even Norton couldn't get so I just quit fooling with everything and finished up on all my retirement stuff and got th old computer fixed, ordered a 70 from Ronnie Dugger. Got about 8 machines but ya'll know how it is just one more won't hurt, Right. It will go good with my Expll and all the rest hahahaha. Later, And May All Your Days Be Filled With Gold. Jerry aka Tinfoil

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Hi Jerry,

Welcome back to the forums and congratulations on your retirement!

When beach hunting I'm always on the lookout for those fringe targets so digging those signals was a given. To be honest I fully expected them to either be nails or rusting away bottle caps. I was pleasantly surprised when the pennies showed up instead. Out in the field I hunted the other day deeper iron tended to continue to read high over the open hole and these pennies were dropping down in ID as the coil got a little closer. Honestly I have used almost all the high gain relic machines and I don't believe they would match the 70 on these targets even with the disc set to accept nails. Now before everyone goes out and buys a 70 based on my post this was only one instance and I have seen the 70 raise trash targets up to the point where they would become a nuisance for certain typs of hunting like deep turf. Still for me and my type hunting and after a fairly long struggle the X-T 70 is becoming a keeper.

If I remember correctly your soil and fresh water beaches tend to be be simiilarly mild as mine are. Let us all know what you think of the 70 down there.

Enjoy your retirement and post up some gold when you find the time.

Tom

 

[Tinfoil]

Between guys like Monte, you, me, Barnacle Bill, Mike Bearden, Steve Herschbach, Dan PA, Dave "Z", Bill (OR) and Rick (N.D.) and some others I know I forgot to name, have owned almost all of them and have spent alot of money on detectors. It is just a hobby I love. I don't belive anything about any machine so I just buy them and run them thru the mill myself. That way I eliminate the hype and I find out for sure what the machine will really do. I don't smoke, drink, do drugs or run the bars but I do love to metal detect and try different machines. I hunt alot of water and beaches, fresh and salt water. There ain't nothing better then a pretty gold ring with those real diamonds in it. Tinfoil is my favorite signal to dig up. That is where all those nice rings fall in with the nice big Diamonds. I have dug a few nice honkers that fell in the round pull tab, square pull tab and nickle range though. Oh I had to recount the machines it is 12 now instead of 8. Oh well when you get as old as I am you are allowed to miscount every once in a while. There are two things you lose when you get old. One is your memory and I forgot what the other one was . Later my friend, Jerry aka Tinfoil

 

[BarnacleBill]

understand you been having some virus troubles. Thought I'd throw at you what we have been using at work for a couple of years(me being the IT director), that has worked pretty well. It's called NOD32 from Eset, 1 year subscription is $39 and renewals are $27.30. It has consistently beaten just about everything out there effectiveness wise for years, even though it's not well known.

http://www.nod32.com/index.php

It runs in the background and checks everything before you open it, including e-mails, and doesn't slow your machine down much, nor has it seemed to cause crash problems on a wide variety of operating systems we run it on.

Don't own any stock in it, but $39 is cheap money considering the kind of grief you've been through.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Tinfoil]

It sure is nice reading you guys posts. Me I don't post much but I hunt alot. I have read all of your posts on the 70 and especially the 18.75 coil. Excellent posts and very informative and detailed with what info you need without all the tech. stuff. That is my kind of post. I am like Chuck Digging In Fl. I just don't have that writting ability but if you get me to talking I don't have any trouble saying how things work for me. Wish I had that ability of getting my point across in writting. Maybe I would not talk so much. I am looking forward to the 5x10DD 18.75 myself. Just would like to say your posts, Diggers post, and Steve Herschbach's post are excellent. Thanks alot. Later Jerry aka Tinfoil

 

[Tinfoil]

It sure is nice reading you guys posts. Me I don't post much but I hunt alot. I have read all of your posts on the 70 and especially the 18.75 coil. Excellent posts and very informative and detailed with what info you need without all the tech. stuff. That is my kind of post. I am like Chuck Digging In Fl. I just don't have that writting ability but if you get me to talking I don't have any trouble saying how things work for me. Wish I had that ability of getting my point across in writting. Maybe I would not talk so much I am looking forward to the 5x10dd 18.75myself. Just would like to say your posts Diggers post and Steve Herschbach's post are excellent. Thanks alot. Later Jerry aka Tinfoil

 

[steve herschbach]

...I'm flattered to be mentioned in the same sentence with people whose posts I always read. I'm just a schmuck in Alaska after all!

Happy Hunting!!

Steve Herschbach

 

[Tinfoil]

All I get to hunt is beach and water 10kt, 14kt, sometimes 18kt, and I have only 2 items that are 22kt. That is still a stretch from that nice 24kt. stuff you find. Maybe one day I will get to come up there and dig the 24kt stuff. That is one of my retirement go doo's. I hope I get to do it now as I retired March 10th. Later Jerry aka Tinfoil

 

[North Georgia Relics]

n/t

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Hi Don,

EPR stands for edge pass rejection. Passing the edge of the coil over a suspected iron target that reads non-ferrous will many times show the true iron ID. Another Monte-ism is the "quick out" test which is sweeping the coil briskly over the target to get a true iron ID.

Monte explains it much better.

Tom

 

[Farmercal]

Jerry,

There is a FREE program called AVG by Grissoft and it has saved my computer from viruses at least 20 times already. The cost is free and the updates are also free. Im a network manager and used to use Norton until I found the hard way it wasn't doing the job. Hope this helps you out.

 

[Tinfoil]

Now I got the latest Norton and it up dates on it's own and I don't have to do anything but run it once in a while and check everything. So far so good. Thanks, I appreciate it, Jerry aka Tinfoil

 

[Monte]

E-mail me at: MonteVB@comcast.net and I will send you a two-part E-mail about my A.T.C. (Audio Target Classification) tips that include "Quick-Out!" and E.P.R..

I remind everyone that NOTHING is going to be 100% accurate, nor do certain techniques work all the time in all places, but ....... I have employed these techniques and instructed them now for nearly a quarter of a century and it has helped to deal with some very trashy environments.

Happy Hunting,

Monte