Dave J. Why does an analog meter

[vlad]

seem to hit solid and lock with little or no movement, but a digital unit bounce? Is it a matter of the analog meter being less sensitive?
(As I recall, the Tek 9000 was an analog unit with a digital LCD, and locked like the 8500 analog meter.)

 

[Dave J.]

don't know enough about the 1980's Teks to comment. If you're referring to the CZ's, each segment covers a range that would be many numerical digits on a 0-99 scale, so you see less bounce. Also, the CZ's are multifreakers, so in the nonferrous range they give much more solid ID than an otherwise similar singlefreaker would.

 

[vlad]

at the Compass X detectors & Coin/Gold Scanners, Garrett ADS, Tek Mk-1, Whites 6000, 5900, Pro XL, all used numbered analog meter (not notch groups). One sweep lock-on of a number and does not move. (Disc., or stat if it i.d.s)
The early Tek 4 filters used averaging; depending on ground mineral knob setting, either 3, or 6 sweeps for best i.d., but lock same as other analogs above.
With the CZ yes its steady (& analog); and like you said, notch-categories; with a (relative) wide group of numbers within each notch so the variation is minimized even more; this also includes units like Whites IDX Pro.
(I see no difference in a 6A, 3D &, 70 Pro on solidness of lock.)

But take the F-75, T-2, C$, AT Pro, Whites XLT, DFX, ( these 2 had the option of averaging on/off) MXT, V3i, Sovereign, ML multis......the numbers bounce around on each sweep (disc, or stat mode it it i.d.s)
and they all use a numbered digital scale. Are these meters so much more sensitive, I wonder?

 

[MarkCZ]

I've owned the Teknetics 9000/B, 8500 and the Mark I the best lock on meter of the three was the 9000/B by a LONG shot!
The machine wasn't very deep, but as deep as the rest in that time period! and to this DATE no detector I've touched would meter
NEAR as good as the 9000/B did, BUT!! the nearer ones may very well meter better beyond the 5" depth range!
If I could have gotten a replacement working meter for my 9000/B I would still have it and have a good use for it!!

The Teknetics 9000/B was a four filter detector and if I remember right the later Teknetics Condor was a three filter detector that was a little
deeper but I never got a hold of one of them.
If someone could take the same electronics (exactly) including the meter of the 9000/B, condense it to a modern sized package and ONLY improve its depth
it would be a modern day WONDER!
and at last time I checked First Texas consumed (also bought and got rights to) ALL the patents for EVERYTHING the OLD Teknetics company had.

Mark

 

[vlad]

the 8500 and 9000 (4 filter) were for high trash areas to 6" with those 7.5" loops. (Shortly after Whites came out with the single sweep 6000di-I never cared for the mode change setup.)
I do not exactly recall the warranty, but a friend in Memphis had the meter go out on his 9000(A) and I think he may have to pay, so they just stuck the 8500 meter in.
Basically they were the same units. The i.d. & depth both worked in all metal on the 9000-but did not i.d as well as the motion mode. When the 10" wafer came out it helped add some depth though.
I sold my 9000 in 1990 and the meter worked fine. (but the 14 battery setup was awful--the clips broke constantly)
The 3 filter units like the Condor did not add much if any, and George did not like them-but they were stretching the market and Ron ran things. George also worked some at the same time as
a gunslinger for other companies like Compass on the X-100 and the Scanner models, and his units were designated as Pro.
At one time just a few years back, George was going to update the Mk-1 into the Micro Mk and talked about it on JB's Forum, and would have added auto ground like in his personal Mk-1
(that feature did not go into production on the Mk-1 because would have added $100) and kept the switchable ground filters. I guess in a digital readout, but he never confirmed.
George is still around, in commercial P.I.s I guess (but when JBird passed away his forum came down-maybe George hits Carls sometimes.)

 

[MarkCZ]

the 8500 and 9000 (4 filter) were for high trash areas to 6" with those 7.5" loops. (Shortly after Whites came out with the single sweep 6000di-I never cared for the mode change setup.)
I do not exactly recall the warranty, but a friend in Memphis had the meter go out on his 9000(A) and I think he may have to pay, so they just stuck the 8500 meter in.
Basically they were the same units. The i.d. & depth both worked in all metal on the 9000-but did not i.d as well as the motion mode. When the 10" wafer came out it helped add some depth though.
I sold my 9000 in 1990 and the meter worked fine. (but the 14 battery setup was awful--the clips broke constantly)
The 3 filter units like the Condor did not add much if any, and George did not like them-but they were stretching the market and Ron ran things. George also worked some at the same time as
a gunslinger for other companies like Compass on the X-100 and the Scanner models, and his units were designated as Pro.
At one time just a few years back, George was going to update the Mk-1 into the Micro Mk and talked about it on JB's Forum, and would have added auto ground like in his personal Mk-1
(that feature did not go into production on the Mk-1 because would have added $100) and kept the switchable ground filters. I guess in a digital readout, but he never confirmed.
George is still around, in commercial P.I.s I guess (but when JBird passed away his forum came down-maybe George hits Carls sometimes.)

Did you ever actually see the LCD display out of a 9000/B, in your hand that is? it was the weirdest thing. I had three of them in total, and all it was was two pieces of really small glass
sandwiched together WITH NOT ELECTRICAL connection point AT ALL!!!! The displayed laid into a rubber like gourmet of sort how is worked baffles me to this day??? And no it didn't have ANY
METAL contact pins or buttons on it either!!!
The problem with them were the bond between the glass had to be 100% air tight. well over time the seal went bad and they leaked, which smeared the display.
Here is a short story about the ID ability of the 9000/B vs The Mark I.
I got the 9000/B off from my big brother USED right after Teknetics came out with the Mark I. My brother just had to have the Mark I.
So, one day we were out hunting in a SILVER hot spot and he was using the new to him Mark I so about every good target he found he would call me over to compare the target ID response between the
9000 and the Mark I. Well he excitingly calls me over to this target (still in the ground) and he says if its a coin its for sure a Silver Dime! I check it and I tell him that its NOT a silver dime! and if its a coin at all
its a Silver Quarter! Well, it was a Silver Washington Quarter. The 9000/B would ID and make change!
MUCH later I was hunting with a friend who had gotten one of those 2500 talking detectors (can't think of the brand for some reason) and we were out hunting a real trashy area and his detector kept telling him
COIN.......COIN......... the display sized and gave the depth of the target. Well, after several times of calling me over to check the target for him before he dug it, each time his detector gave him a SOLID target ID response
my 9000/B would call it junk!!!
The last target he called me over his detector LOCKED solid on a Half Dollar!!!!! I think it even displayed a Half Dollar, the woman (voice) in his headphones kept repeating COIN, Coin, Coin, on every pass over the target.
He calls me over and he is EXCITED!!!!!! this was his first half dollar!!!!! I sweep over the marked target, did a 360 around it sweeping over it an several direction trying to get this wonderful half dollar reading which didn't happen.
I looked at him and I said I would NOT dig that target at all, its JUNK!!!!! He was still excited about the find and dug it, I don't remember what it actually was now, but it was a total piece of trash! he threw his detector over his
shoulder and STORMED off, he never hunted with that detector again and traded it off soon after that hunt!! I wish I could remember the brand of that detector, I know it was SEVERAL years newer than my antique, boy was he mad that day!
True Stories! I had a lot of fun with that 9000/B It really was an amazing unit.

EDIT!!! I just remembered the brand, it was a Garrett and it talked, and you could select a man's or a women's voice! At the time I really hated that my friend got so upset that day, but at the same time I was pretty proud
of my old 9000/B.

 

[vlad]

A (now deceased) friend loved his 9000B because there was something you could set on the audio to identify a nickel; I gave my A to my brother after I learned the Mk-1 (I have 3 of them,
and 2 have the depth mods by Keith Wills.) Maybe the 4 filter Teks did better in some ground than the 2 filter units; Ron once said George knew more about ground filters than anybody.
(When he built the Treasure Baron it had a push button ground balance; push and release and before your let off it was done. Mr.Bill often said the Gold Trax was the best nugget machine he ever used.)
I still have a Garrett Gti...(they battery containers are not good and the things break when changing batteries) the sizing feature is very useful in trashy areas-some coin signals size too big & it was good
on identifying bottlecaps and iron washers-but the unit was not that deep.
Something else that will distort a 9000 display was being out when it was freezing; about the time the nicads stopped from the cold the meter started to freeze-but it still worked ok after warming.
Have seen 9000's (and Condors {2*}, Hawks, Eagles/Eagle Pro {2*}) for sale at the bay, and other websites, usually around $200 in working condition-take a look.
Keith might have one too, or the parts.
(write or call Keith and ask about the contact point http://www.brokendetector.com/ ) You could get Eagle & Condor in choice of 3 or 4 filers too.
* 2 versions of each
Post by George on Condor:
The original 4 filter design works best in very high mineral ground. On the other hand, the 2 filter designs are best in low to moderate mineral. Our thinking was, at that time, that a 3 filter detector would actually be best for “all around” detecting. Therefore, to generate sales and spur new life in the 8500 and 9000 series I was assigned to rework the original design into 3 filters. Personally I didn’t want to. I felt that a new “grounds up” design would be better that tweaking the 8500/9000 series.

Anyway, reluctantly I reworked the 8500/9000 series into 3 filters. Got it to work but I was never satisfied with the result. Sorry to be so blunt. It never sold well and we had a number of complaints. Primarily, most of the sales went to Kellyco.

George
Hawk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1NT92Wk5oE
Condor:
https://www.losttreasure.com/Home/FieldTestDetail/6159

 

[MarkCZ]

After I discovered that my 9000/B couldn't be fixed even after I found two new replacement displays that was claimed to have been stolen from the factory years
before it closed down. The replacements were as bad as the old ones. I talked to Keith Wills about it and was told that those displays were pretty new to the
industry and he had had even new ones early on that were bad out of package once they had some age on them, they were very poorly sealed. Those displays were actually
way smaller than one would think, they were actually about the size of those microscope specimen glasses but double thick.
I sold my 9000/B on ebay several years ago as WORKING but with a bad meter. I don't remember what I got out of it but I did pretty good on it.
I moved the Mark I off pretty quick after I got it, it just didn't impress me as compared to the 9000/B spoiled I guess!
I had the same problem with the battery clips, but I got a set of replacements from Keith and replaced them myself.
The 8500 I got later after I sold the 9000 it was a pretty nice detector, but a person on the internet found out I had it and for whatever reason he wanted it even though
I didn't even have it up for sell, he made me a deal and I sold it.

Mark

 

[vlad]

were a somewhat soft plastic rather than glass......but I would not swear to it.
If I recall correctly the Condor and Eagle were (said) made to compete with the Whites Eagle-and Kellyco did have them.
because I talked to Stu about them. He had a good opinion of them....but then, he sold them (and Electroscopes too.).
You ever see or use a PRG? (TID in 1972)

 

[MarkCZ]

The plastic with all the information around the actual display or to say the external part was a plastic screen overlay, while
the actual LCD part was beneath that and was glass. I remember being surprised that when I got the display out ALL the rest of the information
was left in the face of the detector, the display was less than half of what I thought it was going to be, and NO Wiring at all to the display!
Now, there was some wiring going into the rubber framework that cradled the LCD display, so the connections to the glass part had to have been
proximity. It was really pretty strange for its time.

You ever see or use a PRG? (TID in 1972)

No, that's about 10 years before I got into metal detecting, I started out around 1981 with a White's 5000D Series2 (it may have been a 5000Di series2 ??)

Mark

 

[vlad]

Got this from Joe(TX)
Go to the Compass forum and to the archives section and type in PRG...and all of the PRG post will pop up...the name to look for is Keith and dated around 2012?
(I'm not a member-but if you are interested....it works differently than the units today)