CZ3d questions

[epi-hunter]

Hi everyone,

I've posted before, but it's been awhile. All of you were great help then, and I've continued to read this forum for tips on how to use my CZ3d. I appreciate your advice - it has helped me a lot along the way.

I now have I would guess about 200 hours of use on my 3D. I'm digging very few rusty nails now (versus a LOT of rusty iron at first) although now and again I still get fooled. My question(s) have to do with very deep targets, and also regarding salt versus enhanced mode.

First off, I bought the 3d mainly because I wanted to hunt old homestead sites. Since then I've learned that most of the old homestead sites that I hunt also have "new" trash (kids partying, people throwing junk, or whatever). Most of them are actually still in use. So I still hunt newer (post-1950) sites with this detector, although these sites have a long history too. I use enhanced mode for all of the sites, even the trashy ones, and have developed a method that doesn't drive me nuts in terms of the trash.

So my first question has to do with this method. What I do is to hunt in enhanced mode, then flip to salt mode once I have a repeatable target. If I get a repeatable high coin signal in enhanced but the needle jumps (even just once) down to zinc/token in any direction, it's a zinc penny, or it's otherwise junk (metal screw tops do this too). I have dug quite a few of these and have never found anything except junk.

Similarly, if I get a zinc/token signal in enhanced, then flip to salt and it goes to square pulltab, 75% of the time it's a square pulltab. The other 25% of the time, in my experience, it's been junk. So I ignore these signals.

My question is, am I missing something by doing this? I wonder if I'm defeating the 3d purpose by using both modes (because really I'm using the salt mode as a deciding factor to dig or not).

My other question is, what does a 'really deep target' sound like? I always hunt with disc at 0 (I need to hear the iron so I can determine if I've got a coin or rusty nail). I have never used autotune mode. The deepest coin I've dug is about 7 inches. So what does a coin at, say, 9 inches sound like?

Thanks, as always, for your great help

 

[WVAdirtdigger]

First, let me say that you have come a long way with the machine and seem to be doing pretty well. You told us about your bad finds. What good finds have you made?

Second, by passing on hi-coin signals that bounce to zinc you could be missing IH pennies or corroded wheat pennies. While bypassing a corroded wheat might not be a big deal, IMO passing on any IH is. I have found quite a few IHs that did this. I've also dug MANY IHs that were solid Zinc signals. I have dug 75 IHs with the 3D in the last 2+ years. The bouncing Zinc/SQ tab signal could be a 1860's IH but I'm with you that it has a 99 percent chance of being junk. I also don't think I've ever dug a SQ tab reading that wasn't junk. I hunt 90 percent of my time in pre-1900 yards. Yes most of them are used still today so I have the same problems as you.

The only time I switch to salt to check a signal is with nickels. I dig all hi-coin and Zinc signals. I also use the pinpoint mode to size the target and help me decide whether to dig or not. I have had only a few coins give a large pinpoint but I still dug it. They were usually pennies. also there could be more than one coin in a small area and that can increase the pinpoint area as well.

If you're using the 8" coil, 7" is about as deep as you will ever dig. That's the deepest I've dug with it. I have dug 8" deep pennies with the 10" coil. I don't give out exaggerated depths. Rule of thumb is that depth will equal the coil size and that's pretty much what I've found to be true.

Good Luck,
Dave

 

[Bill W.]

Everybody's approach to detecting is different. Some like to minimize digging with iffy signals. I am not one of them because I've seen what some of those iffy signals can produce. I've hunted alot of pounded parks and know first hand what people leave behind. I am with Dave (WVAdirtdigger)... by passing up those signals in enhanced mode on older sites you're definitely leaving coins behind. I've had IHs (in enhanced mode) ID in the relic catagory. That would translate into a 'high' square tab on most machines. That's even below the zinc catagory. So, if you get my point you'll understand why I think you're leaving coins. Is all of the digging worth it? Only you know what type of hunter you are...

As far as depth out of the 8 inch. The deepest I've dug is close to 8 inches on a penny. The normal depth is about 7 inches that you've experienced. My record for a deep IH is slightly over 10 inches with the 10.5 coil. Norm for the 10.5 is 8 inches may a little bit more. But, the conditions must have been excellent that day because I usually don't dig coins that deep. I do have my digger marked so I can use it to measure depths of holes. So, all of my deepest finds have been measured and is not a guess. Depth is also dependant on your mineralization. There are places I get excellent depth then there's places it's a struggle to ID deep coins. Extremely deep coins are a crap shoot. There are sites that if I dig those very light and repeatable high tones with an occasional bounce to iron that it's a coin. But, there are places that if I dig any targets that even bounce to iron once it's iron. The CZs like their deep iron. The 3D is no exception. You definitely dig some deep iron going after the extremely deep coins.

-Bill

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Many experiment with the ehanced mode versus salt mode especially in the nickel range and perhaps those that do can chime in as I never really did even in older CZ's....But many swear by their results to dig or not...
Yep after a while we start digging less nails and comes with time in the field and only get zapped when I go for iffies if things are slow.
Deep coin sound certainly depends on where you have the volume set, but the pinpoint mode tells all as that sort of muzzled VCO lets me know right way if its deep or not.
As far as depth goes all one needs is the stock 8 inch coil as in my neck of the woods 8-10 inch silver dimes are common and even went a foot for them. Do remember coin depths depend on the area and in some areas a 6 inch is a deepie..Recently hunted an old farm and found 3 100 year old silver coins at 2-3 inches deep as the ground had a rock base and they couldn't sink if they wanted to..
I can understand hunting old areas that are still in use with the enhanced mode as the trash will cause a lot of extra digging and basically the enhanced mode was made for just plain old areas that have been abandoned years ago...
As far as the autotune mode it may go a little deeper but just covers more area as the coil covers a wider path..Many use it and a flip of the switch puts them in discrimination as a second check.
I feel our WVA previous poster gave an excellent post and hope we have helped a bit....

 

[epi-hunter]

Thanks all of you. That's what I was afraid you were going to say . I have been feeling that I'm probably walking over coins and other good finds, which is why I asked the question. My frustration is that I really have few if any sites that don't have a ton of new trash, even though they are 'old' sites. Tons and tons of zinc pennies. One of my best sites is just filled with scrap metal. I've pulled several silver quarters and a silver half from this particular site, all fairly shallow (4 inches or less) but there is so much junk metal that I have to rely on the salt mode for my sanity. I'd love to dig it all, but I don't have time - I'd still be digging. Maybe I have the wrong detector for my type of hunting, I don't know.

I wish there was a way to notch out zinc pennies without losing the good stuff. Depth isn't really a good indicator of whether the coin is old, at least not at several of my sites. My best IH is a 1878 in beautiful condition found at 2 inches. The IH's I've found have all hit on high coin in both modes (but are also in very good shape, not corroded). Same for the wheaties (many) I've found.

Pinpointing helps narrow things down but again, there seems to be a lot of wadded up metal that pinpoints similar to coins. On the other hand, when I get a 'coin round' pinpoint I can be almost positive it's a coin. More often it's iffy (I dig the iffy pinpoints if they are high coin on both modes; those iffy pinpoints are coins about 25% of the time).

I keep the volume set at 5 (don't want the volume boost). I can tell depth usually by the quality and volume of the tone and pinpoint. I might be expecting too much from my stock coil. I keep sensitivity at 4.5 or so. The ground balance is driving me nuts - I have to re-balance every few feet at several sites because the ground type changes so frequently and I get falsing. Some tough areas to hunt. Automatic ground balance would be nice in some of these sites.

Thanks for your input, you have helped me a lot! I'm going to stop flipping to salt so much. Actually there is a quality difference in the high coin tone (at least when it's fairly shallow) between a silver or clad coin and a zinc penny or trash (probably you know what I'm talking about) so by now I can pretty much even predict when I flip to salt, if it's going to drop into a lower section of the meter. But I should dig those anyway.

I know I am walking over coins, I've just got to figure out the most time-effective way of getting to the good stuff without digging trash all day.

 

[Bill W.]

You could almost approach those kinds of areas in a couple different ways. The thing I would be inclined to do is hunt in salt mode and go through a dig all of the high coin tones since trash is such an extreme problem. Then go back through in enhanced mode when you have the time. That would be alot most logical way to balance your time to coins ratio. I'd serious consider a 5 inch coil if I was in your shoes. I know Dave (WVAdirtdigger) has one and uses it in places like those with good results. You'll be able to seperate targets alot easier and it would be well worth the money. Since you said your older coins don't seem to be that deep the 5 inch is probably going to beat the pants off of the 8 inch. I also usually run my volume on 5 and the sensivity between 4 and 5. Lowering your sensivity will help seperate shallower targets. What alot of us forget to say in our posts is we own multiple machines and coils. So, when we come into an area like that there are multiple ways to get coins. I think the 3D only short coming is in areas of high trash that you'd like to cherry pick the silver signals you can't because everything is lumped into high coins. I understand why it was lumped into one catagory but still wish it wasn't. I am sure others will add their opinion on how to get the maximum coins out of time spent. None is right or wrong just different ways to skin a cat... Dave and Dan are both very experience in detecting too. So, I'm sure what ever path you go it will help you some.

-Bill

 

[WVAdirtdigger]

about digging some trash. I just got an Explorer II a few weeks ago and I'm digging large chunks of Coke cans because they hit like the coins I dug. I'm sure in time I'll get better with it but right now I'm sure I would dig less trash with my 3D.

IHs at 2", that sounds like my areas. 1878 is a good IH. All of the 1870's are a bit rare.

Bill mentioned the 5" coil. I highly recommend it. It will help you pluck coins up against large trash. I've pulled them from so close that I had to null pinpoint the coin to get it.

BTW, post some pics of those coins. You've gotten some good ones and we'd all like to share in your good fortune.

Dave