CZ TECH Questions for CZ users

[cabochris]

I mainly hunt in saltwater with Excaliburs. But am always looking for a better machine, and feel the only real competition for VLF Excalibur is CZ20. While I have used most detectors over the years, with me Fisher slipped through the cracks. So in order to make up for lost time I have purchased a used CZ6a and CZ20. I am rather impressed. The 6a is just about the best land detector I have ever tried and I really like the overall design of CZ 20. I have found lots of gold jewelry in the sea with Excaliburs, but am wondering if CZ20 might actually be better? First off the CZ platform is better. The shaft design is better, and the hip mount is better. Plus I feel the CZ20 makes for a better land detector.

I still question which technology is better for finding gold in the surf. 17 frequency BBS with DD coils, or 2 frequency with concentric coils? But that is a whole topic that might take all day. In theory it seems like CZ20 might be better. So I want to give the 20 a good testing and am looking forward to CZ21. I sort of like the idea of the CZ6a for land hunting and a CZ20 8inch for water and a CZ20 10inch for beach.

My main CZ questions are for CZ users. I love the 3 tones in discriminate mode. But it seems like with every CZ I have tried so far, besides having to have correct ground balance, sensitivity must also be set correctly in discriminate mode. If sensitivity is set too high, I get constant false ground signals. So I lower sensitivity. OK that makes sense. But, I have noticed when in the all metal Auto tune mode, I can always crank up sensitivity to max, without any falsing! The one time I tried a CZ20 in the salt, I had to search with a sensitivity of 4 in discriminate mode for stable operation. Plus I have noticed if I hunt at max sensitivity in all metal, hit a target and then switch to discriminate mode to check target ID, it works! I could never hunt at max sensitivity in discriminate!

So for a CZ is this the way to hunt, in all metal max sensitivity, then switch to ID target sounds? Will I get more depth and ground coverage that way? Or will CZ still go nearly as deep with lower sensitivity settings (4 or 5) in discriminate?

The CZ 20 seems like a good compromise between an Excalibur and Pulse machine. Are there any longterm CZ/Excal users that can add their thoughts? CC.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Hello CC,

I'll try to answer some of your questions but as I have never used an Excal I can't provide any comparisons.

In my current line up is a CZ70PRO, CZ20 8", & cz20 10". I hunt freshwater & saltwater beaches with a variety of ground conditions for both. That is they vary from clean white sand, to severe black sand, cobble fields, and the worst conditions being saltwater with severe black sand and cobbles combined.

Over the years there have been many posts with observations concerning the questions you are asking which I will try to summarize.

Sensitivity

This is one area where there has not been a consensus as to how high can you usually run it. With my CZ20 8" on a moderate black sand saltwater beach I can run her at 10 pegged out, no problem. But on the CZ20 10" only 5>6, which the thought may be that it's because it's a larger coil and seeing more of the ground. However, I've seen many posts over the years where those sporting a 8" can only get as high as 5 or so to remain stable. As locations vary, the only way to really know for sure is to gather a bunch of these together in the same location and try them out. So my thought on this is that you have to live with whatever the way your's acts. You might put the CZ6A in Salt mode and compare it to the CZ20.

All Metal vs Disc depth

I believe most users that hunt in (0) zero Disc find that it is deeper than Autotune despite what the manual says. That may because the Disc audio is a saturated response, as opposed to trying to hear a slight audio rise in the Autotune mode. I personally hunt at (0) zero Disc 99% of the time because I find that it is the best way to get the real deepies. The only time I don't is on a saltwater severe black sand beach with cobble fields where the machine constantly spits in Disc mode no matter where the sensitivity is set. But that is a truly miserable place to hunt, which I don't do very often, and maybe a ground balancing PI is the only thing that would stand a chance there. Over the years I've taken a dozen or so VLF's there, and so far nothing runs smoothly, some like the Tesoro Tejon are in overload six inches above the sand.

Ground Balancing

To get the most performance I usually GB in Autotune to get in the ballpark. I then switch to (0) zero Disc and pump, then swing the coil over the sand, while adjusting the sensitivity and GB to get the optimum setting. Kind of like stick and ruddering her to get just on the brink of instability.

Important Tip

The de-tunable VCO pinpoint is your best friend. Example; Hunting in (0) zero Disc you get what you think might be a weaker low toned target. Is it iron or a deep good target that the CZ can't ID because of depth, so it reports a low tone? Switch to pinpoint and listen to see how high(tone) and loud the target sounds. After a little practice you will get an idea of how deep a coin is just by the way the pinpoint responds.
If the target is very weak in pinpoint, take away 5 to 6" of sand and re-check. If the target is now much louder and still sounding iron(low tone), move on. But if the target is still weak or has begun to signal mid/high tone then dig some more. The one target that will drive you crazy are rotten zincs, I have dug them at +20" in semi-frozen beach sand with the cz20 8" on a consistent basis. This because they have leached heavily into the surrounding sand, and they never give a consistent ID. And yes if there are no children around, you are allowed to call them bad names.

Hope this gives you some more ideas and things to try.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[RLOH]

Chris, I don't beach hunt so that part of your question has to be answered by someone else. I have had every CZ made and I use them alot. First and foremost, get a good ground balance. I use the pump method in all metal. It is my opinion that getting the ground balance right will give you another inch or so of depth over a not perfectground balance. Any CZ that I have owned can get great depth at a sens of 4. I currently have a 70 and in most places, I can run the sens at 6. I never could do that on the 3d, 5, or 6a that I owned. I could sometimes get it up to 5, but that was the limit. I use all of the CZ's in disc mode with little or no discrimination. Listen to all the tones and after digging some deep coins(8 plus inches) the high tick will be money in the bank. I have tried the autotune mode in open, clear fields, but I find the audio to be too mushy. Don't sweep too fast as you can miss a deep coin. As the CZ guru Detector Dan says, coil for coil as deep as any detector made. I will always have a CZ in my hands. R.L.

 

[patch]

I HAVE HAD THE CZ6AND NOW HAVE THECZ5.OVER 95% OF THE TIME I RUN THE SENSITIVETY AT A FULL 10.WITH NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.YOU WILL NOT FIND A BETTER NICKEL FINDER.I USE THE REGULAR GROUND BALANCE METHOD,NOT THE BOBBING METHOD.MY ONLY 2 COMPLAINTS WITH THE MACHINE ARE THAT THEY DID NOT MAKE IT WATER RESISTENT LIKE THE CZ6,AND YOU CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NEW PENNY,DIME,OR QUARTER. AT LEAST I CAN'T.AS I UNDERSTAND IT THE CZ20 HAS THE EXACT SAME INSIDES AS THE CZ6,CZ6A,AND THE CZ5.IF I'M WRONG ABOUT MY LAST STATEMENT SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT ME.HOPE THIS HELPS.

 

[cabochris]

n/t

 

[NamVetLesTreasureSeeker]

G-R-E-A-T QUESTION Chris!! Also, VERY INFORMATIVE responses GUYS!! MANY THANKS, Les Robinson