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CTX vs ATX
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Larry (IL)
Well-known member
You are right Gary....... apples and oranges, nothing to compare.
Larry (IL) said:
Not tossing a rock or starting a whizzing contest but it is difficult to compare an orange (a 3030), to anything really. There just isn't another orange around at the moment. There are some smaller similar 'lime-like', maybe a satsuma, or a lemon drop things.
I have handled and used the ATX a tiny bit. It does a have a bit of discrimination in the tone, high to low and low to high. Super sensitive with air test. But, heavy on the arm and 'clunky' feeling! A system of flashing lights for depth and other responses. To me it is definitely aimed at the Minelab Gold machines and it appears Minelab has responded with their 'mid range' gold machine due out soon.Nes (south Coast-CA)
New member
Before this particular topic disappears from this board, I'd like to say that I'm intrigued with the design of the ATX. I'm not a Garrett lover by any means, but a collapsible design into a compact machine that will fit about anywhere is a design advance that will sell many machines to beach hunters. That, and it is truly waterproof. The drawback is of course is the price which it shares with the CTX.at around $2500. One of the most productive machines I ever had was a Surfmaster PI. I know you dig everything, but it sounded off on every target it passed over at the beach... nes
steve herschbach
New member
Funny, I have a CTX 3030 and could not wait to get the Garrett ATX. They are indeed apples and oranges, a multi-frequency VLF and a PI. Which is why I wanted them; vastly different machines. Why would I want two detectors that do the same thing?
The CTX is for when I want the best discrimination, the ATX is for when I want pure depth. I use both for coins and jewelry. Coins and Jewelry with the Garrett ATX
For me they complement each other rather than compete with each other.
The CTX is for when I want the best discrimination, the ATX is for when I want pure depth. I use both for coins and jewelry. Coins and Jewelry with the Garrett ATX
For me they complement each other rather than compete with each other.
Steve, I've read this write-up of yours a few weeks ago. Thanx for writing it up. I'm on the coast of CA, about, about 7 hrs. west of you.
Ok, I know you say in your writeup the following:
"I am not trying to sell anyone on coin detecting with a PI. I repeat, I am not doing anything here but telling you what I am doing and my results. Those who want to scoff and tell me all about how that can't work in their parks etc etc please save it as I do not care. This is me doing for me what I want and I am liking it. Urban PI detecting is not for the faint of heart or those who detest digging junk"
I'd like to comment on that. First of all, I know you say explicatly you don't care what others think about your analysis of the ATX in parks/turf. So if so, this is also directed to Botics too then. But I can't help but comment: Your inference that those who detest digging junk in parks are "faint of heart" ..... has a bunch of inferences bundled up in it:
No one (especially a newbie reading a forum) wants to be called or lumped into a category of being "faint of heart". That explicatly infers that this particular type hunter is going to be "missing out" or "hunting wrong or unproductively" or "lazy" or whatever. And sheesk, which of us wants to wear a big "L" on our foreheads, when a noted authority like Steve Herschbach says they're ...... in effect ... a wussy for not wanting to dig junk ? On the one-hand Steve, yes: I agree that someone who ONLY digs "coin" signals, and NEVER digs a tab or a nail signal, ..... then yes, of course, we can both agree that this person is truly being TOO selective. However one of the tactics of turf, I'm sure we can both agree, is that ....... strip-mining is out-of-the-question, for most urban turfed parks. And as for jewelry: most guys who want to angle for jewelry are NOT wasting their time in blighted junky turfed parks ....... now are they? Hence the old parks are LOADED with low conductor shallow signals (foil, tabs, slaw, etc...) that hunters have been passing for 35+ yrs. now, in their religous quest for silver and high conductors.
It's not that we turf hunters DON'T want gold rings which are certainly there in the turf (at hundreds to one ratios ... or worse, in some blighted parks). And it's not that we DON'T want deep nickels (in fact, some hunters intentionally play the odds with machines like the CTX, to edit those *in*). However, let's face it Steve: There's a heck of a lot of parks that you would soon grow wearing of trying to be a hero and rescue rings and/or 15" deep nickels. Or you'd be kicked out of the park d/t too many holes.
If gold rings are a person's goal, then at some point they have to stop and ask themselves: "what am I doing in junky parks trying to dig all the aluminum out, in quest of a few gold rings hiding here?" If gold rings were REALLY their goal, then what-the-heck are they hunting junky urban blighted parks, ....... to begin with? . Their purpose would be better served to simply go to a swimming beach. Where a) jewelry losses are much more condusive, and b) digging in sand is much easier/faster.
When the TDI first came out (which is the not-too-distant cousin of the ATX, right?), a few of us here where I'm at, mused that FINALLY a pulse machine existed, which could possibly rival VLF for standard coin/relic/jewelry/land hunting. Because it's no secret that pulse machines usually afford more depth than VLF. However, it's also no secret that pulse machines didn't/couldn't reject iron, or have target ID, etc... But when the TDI came out, rumor circulated about how it could indeed be set up to identify/reject iron. And it could indeed be set up to tell high vs low conductors . Hmmmm.
So a few of us took a TDI out to a particular local school yard that dates to the early 1920s. At this particular school yard, I could, at that time, still fairly reliably go out and find a few remaining deep wheaties (7" or more), etc.... And the turf wasn't that junky. So I figured this would be a good place to test this TDI on flagged signals. I flagged a few suspected conductors: a) deep high conductors which were possible penny/dime type targets-at-depth. b) random clad, foil, tab signals c) iron signals. These were all fairly easy to "call" with my explorer, since I'm very familiar with it, and since it affords good TID for this type hunting.
Then we got the TDI out. I had studied all the material at-the-time written about it. Gone through the instruction book for hours. Studied everything on line from those early users about how to tell high vs low, iron vs conductive, etc.... And we passed it over all our marked signals with a variety of settings, over the un-dug flagged items.
My conclusion was that if a person elected to set up his TDI to identify iron, (the off-de-tuning, of ... essentially ... being out of ground balance), that he sacrificed depth. So much so, that by the time you had it set to properly identify a nearby flagged nail, and then went back over the 7" or 8" deep penny/dime signal, it was all you could do to get the penny/dime signal. Contrast to if you had it "wide-open" (in usual pulse power-house beach/nugget type hunting modes), then you would get the penny/dime signal to perhaps a foot or more, with room to spare. But the moment we tried to discern highs versus lows, iron vs non-iron, it was as if we'd lost all that "fabled depth" that pulses are famous for. So in effect, it was like "why change then? Why even switch?"
So I determined then and there that a machine like the TDI was just way-too-squirelly sensitive to be used for typical relic/land/turf type hunting . Ie.: the "apples to oranges" others here are saying. For the beach and or nuggets, sure. But no, not for parks, schools, relics, etc...
And yes I know the ATX is improved over the TDI. But "improved" can be a double-sided sword. Because if by "improved" that means MORE sensitive, then often-time having a machine that is even MORE squirelly senstive is NOT the type machine you want to be using in a junky park. But if by "improved" it means a better ability telling iron vs non-iron, or highs verses lows, then yes, that would be an improvement if someone intended to use it on land.
However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the consensus on the ATX seems to be that any iron check feature it has, is only good to the top 4 or 5" down. Beyond that, and you can kiss iron ID goodbye. Right? So then, for purposes of land/park/turf usage, if this is true, then I don't see the ATX as any more of a land machine, than it's evolutionary predecesssor: the TDI.
As far as your park being 50/50 nails or junk to coins, then either a) you have extremely clean parks, or b) you have the ATX set up in some way to reject iron (but simply got fooled by the assortment of nails shown in your link pix?), c) and/or perhaps were rejecting low conductor signals, if the ATX offers that option?
But in the parks I can think of, where we routinely pull old silver coins out of, you would do a lot worse than "50/50" ratio of junk to keeper coins, if you went in with a dig-all mindset.
steve, have you ever read this post of mine? http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/373782-true-story-dig-all-lest-you-miss-gold-ring-philosophy.html
Ok, I know you say in your writeup the following:
"I am not trying to sell anyone on coin detecting with a PI. I repeat, I am not doing anything here but telling you what I am doing and my results. Those who want to scoff and tell me all about how that can't work in their parks etc etc please save it as I do not care. This is me doing for me what I want and I am liking it. Urban PI detecting is not for the faint of heart or those who detest digging junk"
I'd like to comment on that. First of all, I know you say explicatly you don't care what others think about your analysis of the ATX in parks/turf. So if so, this is also directed to Botics too then. But I can't help but comment: Your inference that those who detest digging junk in parks are "faint of heart" ..... has a bunch of inferences bundled up in it:
No one (especially a newbie reading a forum) wants to be called or lumped into a category of being "faint of heart". That explicatly infers that this particular type hunter is going to be "missing out" or "hunting wrong or unproductively" or "lazy" or whatever. And sheesk, which of us wants to wear a big "L" on our foreheads, when a noted authority like Steve Herschbach says they're ...... in effect ... a wussy for not wanting to dig junk ? On the one-hand Steve, yes: I agree that someone who ONLY digs "coin" signals, and NEVER digs a tab or a nail signal, ..... then yes, of course, we can both agree that this person is truly being TOO selective. However one of the tactics of turf, I'm sure we can both agree, is that ....... strip-mining is out-of-the-question, for most urban turfed parks. And as for jewelry: most guys who want to angle for jewelry are NOT wasting their time in blighted junky turfed parks ....... now are they? Hence the old parks are LOADED with low conductor shallow signals (foil, tabs, slaw, etc...) that hunters have been passing for 35+ yrs. now, in their religous quest for silver and high conductors.
It's not that we turf hunters DON'T want gold rings which are certainly there in the turf (at hundreds to one ratios ... or worse, in some blighted parks). And it's not that we DON'T want deep nickels (in fact, some hunters intentionally play the odds with machines like the CTX, to edit those *in*). However, let's face it Steve: There's a heck of a lot of parks that you would soon grow wearing of trying to be a hero and rescue rings and/or 15" deep nickels. Or you'd be kicked out of the park d/t too many holes.
If gold rings are a person's goal, then at some point they have to stop and ask themselves: "what am I doing in junky parks trying to dig all the aluminum out, in quest of a few gold rings hiding here?" If gold rings were REALLY their goal, then what-the-heck are they hunting junky urban blighted parks, ....... to begin with? . Their purpose would be better served to simply go to a swimming beach. Where a) jewelry losses are much more condusive, and b) digging in sand is much easier/faster.
When the TDI first came out (which is the not-too-distant cousin of the ATX, right?), a few of us here where I'm at, mused that FINALLY a pulse machine existed, which could possibly rival VLF for standard coin/relic/jewelry/land hunting. Because it's no secret that pulse machines usually afford more depth than VLF. However, it's also no secret that pulse machines didn't/couldn't reject iron, or have target ID, etc... But when the TDI came out, rumor circulated about how it could indeed be set up to identify/reject iron. And it could indeed be set up to tell high vs low conductors . Hmmmm.
So a few of us took a TDI out to a particular local school yard that dates to the early 1920s. At this particular school yard, I could, at that time, still fairly reliably go out and find a few remaining deep wheaties (7" or more), etc.... And the turf wasn't that junky. So I figured this would be a good place to test this TDI on flagged signals. I flagged a few suspected conductors: a) deep high conductors which were possible penny/dime type targets-at-depth. b) random clad, foil, tab signals c) iron signals. These were all fairly easy to "call" with my explorer, since I'm very familiar with it, and since it affords good TID for this type hunting.
Then we got the TDI out. I had studied all the material at-the-time written about it. Gone through the instruction book for hours. Studied everything on line from those early users about how to tell high vs low, iron vs conductive, etc.... And we passed it over all our marked signals with a variety of settings, over the un-dug flagged items.
My conclusion was that if a person elected to set up his TDI to identify iron, (the off-de-tuning, of ... essentially ... being out of ground balance), that he sacrificed depth. So much so, that by the time you had it set to properly identify a nearby flagged nail, and then went back over the 7" or 8" deep penny/dime signal, it was all you could do to get the penny/dime signal. Contrast to if you had it "wide-open" (in usual pulse power-house beach/nugget type hunting modes), then you would get the penny/dime signal to perhaps a foot or more, with room to spare. But the moment we tried to discern highs versus lows, iron vs non-iron, it was as if we'd lost all that "fabled depth" that pulses are famous for. So in effect, it was like "why change then? Why even switch?"
So I determined then and there that a machine like the TDI was just way-too-squirelly sensitive to be used for typical relic/land/turf type hunting . Ie.: the "apples to oranges" others here are saying. For the beach and or nuggets, sure. But no, not for parks, schools, relics, etc...
And yes I know the ATX is improved over the TDI. But "improved" can be a double-sided sword. Because if by "improved" that means MORE sensitive, then often-time having a machine that is even MORE squirelly senstive is NOT the type machine you want to be using in a junky park. But if by "improved" it means a better ability telling iron vs non-iron, or highs verses lows, then yes, that would be an improvement if someone intended to use it on land.
However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the consensus on the ATX seems to be that any iron check feature it has, is only good to the top 4 or 5" down. Beyond that, and you can kiss iron ID goodbye. Right? So then, for purposes of land/park/turf usage, if this is true, then I don't see the ATX as any more of a land machine, than it's evolutionary predecesssor: the TDI.
As far as your park being 50/50 nails or junk to coins, then either a) you have extremely clean parks, or b) you have the ATX set up in some way to reject iron (but simply got fooled by the assortment of nails shown in your link pix?), c) and/or perhaps were rejecting low conductor signals, if the ATX offers that option?
But in the parks I can think of, where we routinely pull old silver coins out of, you would do a lot worse than "50/50" ratio of junk to keeper coins, if you went in with a dig-all mindset.
steve, have you ever read this post of mine? http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/373782-true-story-dig-all-lest-you-miss-gold-ring-philosophy.html
steve herschbach
New member
Uh, yeah, sure Tom. Not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm sure your right. I'm not trying to tell you to detect. It seems like all I was doing is explaining what I am doing. I thought it might be useful or at least interesting. I went out if my way to make it clear I am not advocating it to anyone just to try and head off responses like yours, and you turn it around into some mind game I am playing. Amazing.
Anyway, sorry I pushed some sort of button. It wasn't my intent.
Anyway, sorry I pushed some sort of button. It wasn't my intent.
GoldChaser
New member
I, for one, appreciate ALL of Steve's posts. He has more detecting experience and expertise than 99% of those on these forums and I feel privileged to be able to receive his guidance and wisdom.
After reading a few years of Steve's posts, I can fully appreciate the words he uses and how he presents his own personal findings. They are true for him and that is all that matters. It is easy to pick out a few words from anyone's presentation and find some way to make an issue about them. Anyone's. Communicating with a spoken/written language is weak at best because there is so much more deeper information that a few sentences cannot capture. That's why they say "a picture is worth a thousand words." I appreciate brevity, however, and would rather not read a 10 page analysis even if that meant a more complete picture being presented. At the same time, putting one's owns meanings behind someone else's words is inappropriate. I try to always think the best about someone. I believe Steve has good intentions, therefore that is what I get out of his posts.
A big THANKS to Steve for everything he does and has done to support and promote this hobby.
After reading a few years of Steve's posts, I can fully appreciate the words he uses and how he presents his own personal findings. They are true for him and that is all that matters. It is easy to pick out a few words from anyone's presentation and find some way to make an issue about them. Anyone's. Communicating with a spoken/written language is weak at best because there is so much more deeper information that a few sentences cannot capture. That's why they say "a picture is worth a thousand words." I appreciate brevity, however, and would rather not read a 10 page analysis even if that meant a more complete picture being presented. At the same time, putting one's owns meanings behind someone else's words is inappropriate. I try to always think the best about someone. I believe Steve has good intentions, therefore that is what I get out of his posts.
A big THANKS to Steve for everything he does and has done to support and promote this hobby.
steve herschbach
New member
Thanks for the kind comment. I guess I am having a bad month. I get all excited about detecting and new toys and have generally enjoyed posting and sharing. There is nothing in it for me, however, and lately it seems the effort is not well received. I get accused of hyping the new ATX by one group, and then accused of being a Minelab fanboy by another group for not supporting the hype. The net result is I get the feeling I just need to keep my mouth shut. I have people that want to pay me to write so may as well focus on that instead. Best wishes to you and yours!
no, no buttons pushed at all. People on all hobbyist forums respect your writeups (as do I). And people make their decisions based on the writings of well-known and respected hobbyists. For example: Simply as a result of some of your posts and write-ups, there's a So. CA hunter who has gone out and got the ATX. And when I began to give him some "other sides of the coin" (food for thought , for his type hunting, that perhaps he'd not thought of), guess what instinctive thing he did? To merely go back to a few of your articles, and muse "hmm, Steve didn't say anything about that". And he fully intends to use it (or will at least try) to take it to parks as well. Why? Because he read your writeup, and afterall, doesn't consider himself "faint of heart"
Mind you, I'm not saying anything's wrong with that impact. So too would it be with something I were to write, that I too might be basing it on my own hunting experiences, goals, etc.....
There's a lot of machines going up on the market ever since the mid 1980s (when nuggets became all the rage of a new hobbyist wave) that were/are said to be "better on gold" or "more sensitive to gold". So believe it or not, there's actually people who've made the mistake of buying those and waltzing out to parks, for instance. Because by golly, they "don't want to miss any gold".
Or another example: There was a beach demolition site on the Santa Cruz boardwalk years ago. Heavy equipment went in and dug out a giant cavity of sand beneath an old ride, to make a basement for a new incoming ride. The workers dumped all that sand (which had been dug out down to bedrock!) out on the beach. Some of us md'rs went to town and had a field-day hunting those spoils A football field sized pile of sand just dumped out on the beach. And because it had come from beneath the boardwalk, in un-moving stationary sand, naturally it was filled with iron debri, nails, etc... Lo & behold one of the hunters who showed up to join the fray, had brought his beach pulse. His reasoning was: This is the beach afterall, isn't it? And he'd read that nails could be distinguished by a tell-tale double-beep, right? And afterall, you don't want to miss a tinsel fine chain, do you? But within 20 minutes, he was "shut-down" and had to drive back home to get his land machine.
So these are the type things that the ads don't tell you. They simply tout is as "the best beach machine possible" or the "best on gold" and so forth.
Thus no, you didn't push any buttons. I just wanted to add balanced comment, to the part about your results in your parks there in Reno.
Mind you, I'm not saying anything's wrong with that impact. So too would it be with something I were to write, that I too might be basing it on my own hunting experiences, goals, etc.....
There's a lot of machines going up on the market ever since the mid 1980s (when nuggets became all the rage of a new hobbyist wave) that were/are said to be "better on gold" or "more sensitive to gold". So believe it or not, there's actually people who've made the mistake of buying those and waltzing out to parks, for instance. Because by golly, they "don't want to miss any gold".
Or another example: There was a beach demolition site on the Santa Cruz boardwalk years ago. Heavy equipment went in and dug out a giant cavity of sand beneath an old ride, to make a basement for a new incoming ride. The workers dumped all that sand (which had been dug out down to bedrock!) out on the beach. Some of us md'rs went to town and had a field-day hunting those spoils
A football field sized pile of sand just dumped out on the beach. And because it had come from beneath the boardwalk, in un-moving stationary sand, naturally it was filled with iron debri, nails, etc... Lo & behold one of the hunters who showed up to join the fray, had brought his beach pulse. His reasoning was: This is the beach afterall, isn't it? And he'd read that nails could be distinguished by a tell-tale double-beep, right? And afterall, you don't want to miss a tinsel fine chain, do you? But within 20 minutes, he was "shut-down" and had to drive back home to get his land machine.So these are the type things that the ads don't tell you. They simply tout is as "the best beach machine possible" or the "best on gold" and so forth.
Thus no, you didn't push any buttons. I just wanted to add balanced comment, to the part about your results in your parks there in Reno.
steve herschbach
New member
Ok, cool. Any words of wisdom on how to present things? If said with no warning people get the wrong idea. If said with "do not try this at home" it eggs people on to try it at home. Is the idea just to not mention off the wall stuff?
The ATX is a great detector and it is going to have an impact on the beach, relic, and prospecting fields. I do not see the harm of people experimenting. I honestly tried not to make it out to be a coin detector but IF, and that is a big IF, if the sites are properly selected it can pull coins. My last go was 6 pennies in 6 holes, no trash, two wheaties. It is all in the audio. Unfortunately the only way to know if a site is suitable is to try it. But for gosh sakes no, nobody should get an ATX just to turf hunt.
The ATX is a great detector and it is going to have an impact on the beach, relic, and prospecting fields. I do not see the harm of people experimenting. I honestly tried not to make it out to be a coin detector but IF, and that is a big IF, if the sites are properly selected it can pull coins. My last go was 6 pennies in 6 holes, no trash, two wheaties. It is all in the audio. Unfortunately the only way to know if a site is suitable is to try it. But for gosh sakes no, nobody should get an ATX just to turf hunt.
There's no way to head off-at-the-pass every conceivable alternate view or set of factors . So forgive me if I came across like that . I should have been more careful in my "contrary view" as being just that : only another aspect , opinion , side of coin , etc....
Steve : in your opinion of this new atx , how accurately can someone ID nails/iron too? And if a user elects to try to pass the majority of iron , will he sacrifice the fabled pulse depth ?
Because if the atx can afford fabled pulse depth (over 10" or 1 ft. on coins) WHILE able to reject iron , then yes , it would enter the caliber of land-hunting vlf machines (turf, etc ....)
Steve : in your opinion of this new atx , how accurately can someone ID nails/iron too? And if a user elects to try to pass the majority of iron , will he sacrifice the fabled pulse depth ?
Because if the atx can afford fabled pulse depth (over 10" or 1 ft. on coins) WHILE able to reject iron , then yes , it would enter the caliber of land-hunting vlf machines (turf, etc ....)
steve herschbach
New member
Sorry Tom, but I am cheating. The iron disc works well on shallow iron but we both know that is no help. I am digging low tones only, which gets high coins plus nails like in my photo. I further cheat by never digging two low tones next to each other, which are more likely nails double blipping than coins. So isolated, very clean, very pure low tones that, and I hate to say this, have roundness. I am going purely by ear and being picky. I look for areas where nails seem sparse and go to work. So far been working good but obviously it will not work in heavy iron. But it is cool where it does work.
If I had an iron infested site that really produced once upon a time with VLF but was dead I would nibble it. Go in, dig maybe 6-8 spread out good low tones, then quit. Few holes, and probably nails. Maybe go back in four months and dig 6 more. But I am patient and possibly nuts. I admit that. Comes from nugget detecting. I dig many hundreds of nails and bullets at depths up to two feet with my GPX for a single gold nugget. When my luck is down it is thousands per nugget. Now for me an 1800 coin is rarer than a gold nugget still so my trash to treasure threshold is probably set way too high but that us just me. I am extremely adverse to damaging parks so meter myself heavily by moving around a lot as needed. Plus around here I have to wait until the ground is wet as I won't dig dry turf. I still got a couple decades digging in me so I am in no hurry.
The audio on the ATX is closer to an old VLF than any PI I have yet used. Very good modulation, very informative audio. Anyone that hunted back in the all metal days will know what I am talking about and may want to play with it if the opportunity arises. I will shut up on all this for now but I am going to keep practicing. If I get ballsy enough maybe I can drive over your way and you can point me at a great but worked out spot and I can try while you watch? Be kind and try not to pick a nail garden! The ATX is not some magic grail but if you watch what the relic crowd is doing back east you will see PI should not be totally ignored. The real trick is site selection.
Now my CTX 3030, that is fun! Man, I can just dig coins like crazy with that thing and it all seems too easy. Makes way more sense but again, I like weird challenges.
If I had an iron infested site that really produced once upon a time with VLF but was dead I would nibble it. Go in, dig maybe 6-8 spread out good low tones, then quit. Few holes, and probably nails. Maybe go back in four months and dig 6 more. But I am patient and possibly nuts. I admit that. Comes from nugget detecting. I dig many hundreds of nails and bullets at depths up to two feet with my GPX for a single gold nugget. When my luck is down it is thousands per nugget. Now for me an 1800 coin is rarer than a gold nugget still so my trash to treasure threshold is probably set way too high but that us just me. I am extremely adverse to damaging parks so meter myself heavily by moving around a lot as needed. Plus around here I have to wait until the ground is wet as I won't dig dry turf. I still got a couple decades digging in me so I am in no hurry.
The audio on the ATX is closer to an old VLF than any PI I have yet used. Very good modulation, very informative audio. Anyone that hunted back in the all metal days will know what I am talking about and may want to play with it if the opportunity arises. I will shut up on all this for now but I am going to keep practicing. If I get ballsy enough maybe I can drive over your way and you can point me at a great but worked out spot and I can try while you watch? Be kind and try not to pick a nail garden! The ATX is not some magic grail but if you watch what the relic crowd is doing back east you will see PI should not be totally ignored. The real trick is site selection.
Now my CTX 3030, that is fun! Man, I can just dig coins like crazy with that thing and it all seems too easy. Makes way more sense but again, I like weird challenges.
Sunken-Jewels
New member
Hi Folks,
I am really shocked when I read about people not digging signals that appear to be of low tone. I dug a Diamond Sapphire ring right at the shore line a few weeks ago using my White's PI. I was all set to leave the beach and while I was walking back, the low faint signal hit and I said to myself, should I dig it..? Well, I decided, what do I have to lose, I dug it, and I could not believe what was in my scoop. It was valued at $3,700.
It had no names in it or I would have returned the ring nor did anyone at the beach have a person placing a lost & found report. So, it was mine.
As for the Garrett ATX and the Minelab CTX3030 go, let me say this, the ATX was originally built for the Military and then it was turned into a detector for the public. With this said, the ATX is built like a rock.
The second issue is what the ATX can and cannot find as everyone keeps asking about, which detector is better..? Steve is doing the right thing in not choosing that detector for you because like he keeps telling people, metal detecting and the right detector is not within the detector, it is within the user. I have been detecting for over 35 years. I have purchased almost every middle to upper class detector in the industry. I use them for a few months and sell them at a loss.
So, as for the ATX and the CTX3030. Let me say this in hopes it will help people on this board with the main question, which detector do I purchase?
This will be said in some very simple sentences. The ATX is a beast without the "Digital Display" that will tell you many thing about your target and what you may be possibly digging while the ATX is a full signal detector, if you do not like what you hear, do not dig it, if you like the signal / pitch, dig it.
With the Garrett ATX, you have no screens telling you the hit may be a good one.
So what it comes down to is this, if you want a lot of help and do not understand the signals nor have time to learn them, you buy the CTX and hope you can setup the detector properly even with the "Digital Display."
If you have been detecting for a long time and have no need to look at a "Digital Display" for help, you buy the ATX and dig almost everything depending on how you have the discrimination setup on the detector. I read above that someone posted the ATX / PI machine has no discrimination, well, yes it does, you need to switch modes to get into the discrimination setting of the ATX.
Both detectors will find Gold and Silver along with old relics. Both detectors can go in the water 10'. One detector, the CTX has a "Digital Screen" with a bunch of settings that can be manually setup for the detector to work the way you think it should while the ATX has no "Digital Screen" showing you accept buttons and one lighted strip of lights.
So again, as Steve said in many posts, it is not about which detector is the best, it is really about how much experience you, yourself has metal detecting and how good you, yourself is in listening to each and every target you hit and deciding if those targets should be dug or left in the ground.
I have been waiting for many years for a PI Detector to come with Discrimination and Garrett finally did it. I've owned the Minelab Excal II and sold it after one afternoon, I took the detector out in the water, I covered the entire swimming area, almost a full neighborhood block of houses big. I was in the water for over 5 hours and found nothing, not even a penny. I checked the setting when I went in and again tested the detector with my wife's gold ring and some coins when I came out, the detector was working, why I did not find anything is another question that still puzzles me. I will say this, after that hunt, over 5 hours at a beach dating back to the 1800's, in the water, and not even a penny found, needless to say, I sold the detector within a week.
You know, I tell people, "Pay your money, take your choice." This is what needs to be done if you are thinking about buying either detector, the ATX or the CTX. If you do not like the detector you buy, sell it and buy the other and keep doing it until you buy one that works for you. Steve and I have the pleasure of doing just this so money is not an issue for us but we are by no means telling anyone what to do nor do we think we are the best in the industry, you will always find a person better with more knowledge and more money.
So again, I will tell you, if you like to "See how you are tweaking a detector, looking at the digital screen," you buy the CTX and hope for the best. If you do not care about a digital screen and just need to tweak the detector using buttons and a lighted strip of lights, you buy the ATX and hope for the best. If you have the money, buy both and love every minute detecting!
If you are just starting out and new with metal detecting, I would say, read, read, read and keep reading until you understand what people are talking about. Watch the YouTube videos, decide which video you think tells the story. At the end of the day, it will still come down to the main question, which detector should I buy?
I am really shocked when I read about people not digging signals that appear to be of low tone. I dug a Diamond Sapphire ring right at the shore line a few weeks ago using my White's PI. I was all set to leave the beach and while I was walking back, the low faint signal hit and I said to myself, should I dig it..? Well, I decided, what do I have to lose, I dug it, and I could not believe what was in my scoop. It was valued at $3,700.
It had no names in it or I would have returned the ring nor did anyone at the beach have a person placing a lost & found report. So, it was mine.
As for the Garrett ATX and the Minelab CTX3030 go, let me say this, the ATX was originally built for the Military and then it was turned into a detector for the public. With this said, the ATX is built like a rock.
The second issue is what the ATX can and cannot find as everyone keeps asking about, which detector is better..? Steve is doing the right thing in not choosing that detector for you because like he keeps telling people, metal detecting and the right detector is not within the detector, it is within the user. I have been detecting for over 35 years. I have purchased almost every middle to upper class detector in the industry. I use them for a few months and sell them at a loss.
So, as for the ATX and the CTX3030. Let me say this in hopes it will help people on this board with the main question, which detector do I purchase?
This will be said in some very simple sentences. The ATX is a beast without the "Digital Display" that will tell you many thing about your target and what you may be possibly digging while the ATX is a full signal detector, if you do not like what you hear, do not dig it, if you like the signal / pitch, dig it.
With the Garrett ATX, you have no screens telling you the hit may be a good one.
So what it comes down to is this, if you want a lot of help and do not understand the signals nor have time to learn them, you buy the CTX and hope you can setup the detector properly even with the "Digital Display."
If you have been detecting for a long time and have no need to look at a "Digital Display" for help, you buy the ATX and dig almost everything depending on how you have the discrimination setup on the detector. I read above that someone posted the ATX / PI machine has no discrimination, well, yes it does, you need to switch modes to get into the discrimination setting of the ATX.
Both detectors will find Gold and Silver along with old relics. Both detectors can go in the water 10'. One detector, the CTX has a "Digital Screen" with a bunch of settings that can be manually setup for the detector to work the way you think it should while the ATX has no "Digital Screen" showing you accept buttons and one lighted strip of lights.
So again, as Steve said in many posts, it is not about which detector is the best, it is really about how much experience you, yourself has metal detecting and how good you, yourself is in listening to each and every target you hit and deciding if those targets should be dug or left in the ground.
I have been waiting for many years for a PI Detector to come with Discrimination and Garrett finally did it. I've owned the Minelab Excal II and sold it after one afternoon, I took the detector out in the water, I covered the entire swimming area, almost a full neighborhood block of houses big. I was in the water for over 5 hours and found nothing, not even a penny. I checked the setting when I went in and again tested the detector with my wife's gold ring and some coins when I came out, the detector was working, why I did not find anything is another question that still puzzles me. I will say this, after that hunt, over 5 hours at a beach dating back to the 1800's, in the water, and not even a penny found, needless to say, I sold the detector within a week.
You know, I tell people, "Pay your money, take your choice." This is what needs to be done if you are thinking about buying either detector, the ATX or the CTX. If you do not like the detector you buy, sell it and buy the other and keep doing it until you buy one that works for you. Steve and I have the pleasure of doing just this so money is not an issue for us but we are by no means telling anyone what to do nor do we think we are the best in the industry, you will always find a person better with more knowledge and more money.
So again, I will tell you, if you like to "See how you are tweaking a detector, looking at the digital screen," you buy the CTX and hope for the best. If you do not care about a digital screen and just need to tweak the detector using buttons and a lighted strip of lights, you buy the ATX and hope for the best. If you have the money, buy both and love every minute detecting!
If you are just starting out and new with metal detecting, I would say, read, read, read and keep reading until you understand what people are talking about. Watch the YouTube videos, decide which video you think tells the story. At the end of the day, it will still come down to the main question, which detector should I buy?
Sunken-Jewels said:
On the beach, no, no one is passing low conductors. Because of course swimming beaches are usually the place where md'rs go to ply for jewelry, afterall.
But on some land sites (underneath bleachers, in junky-blighted urban parks, etc...) they/we often "cherry pick" for silver and old coins. Are they missing potential gold rings by doing that? SURE ! And you're more than welcome to go be a hero and rescue gold rings from such junky sites if you want
But at some point, you're going to realize, that if gold rings were your goal/objective .... then .... what are you doing hunting junky blighted urban picnic parks? Simply go to swimming beaches where a) ratios are better and b) digging in sand is easier Sunken-Jewels
New member
Hi Tom,
I understand your point and yes, it makes sense but for the people that have PI Detectors, what I am kind of saying is, they really have no choice with the ATX Detector, you have no "Digital Screen" with graphs, etc. etc. etc. to tell you what the target may be so in turn, you end up leaving the target in the ground or you dig it. I would say, over 75% of the time in trash sites, many of the low target hits might be trash. You have a 50/50 shot so if a PI is what a person wants, they might as well dig everything. I guess it all depends on each person's perspective, or from each individual's observation. At least with the CTX, you get some sort of "Digital Graph" that might help a person in identifying the potential target. The screen may be right or it could be wrong, who knows. I was lucky in finding the ring with the White's PI, I was not going to dig it. The target pitch was so low, it was almost as if nothing was in the ground. It was faint and almost non-existent. So, also, it comes down to laziness when detecting. If I was really tired that day on the walk back to my truck, trust me, the ring would possibly be still buried. I can honestly say this, with the deal Minelab has going on now with the CTX giving you a $400 free coil and coil cover with your purchase, even if you do not use the 17" coil, you can sell it and make a few hundred back and at the same time, you can buy the CTX for around $2,000 at a few dealers if you call around asking for a price just for the detector, trash the extras you don't need and tell them you just want the CTX Detector, no extras. With this, Minelab is still giving you the free 17" Coil without any package deal so it's a good deal for the CTX right now. I think the free coil special ends May 31st. I honestly think, this is only my opinion, you can have a $99 dollar detector and it still comes down to the person working that detector compared to the person working the $2,000 detector, you are only as good as your experience and pinpointing the targets and being able to understand what it may be you found. So, a person with a low priced detector could run circles around a person with a high priced detector, everyone knows this to be a true statement. Getting back to the ATX vs. the CTX, if it were me, I would buy the CTX and save up for the ATX. Try both, pick one or keep both. I think Garrett and Minelab make great detectors along with some other detector manufacturers. I will say this again, I think it all depends on each person's perspective, or from each individual's observation and how much experience they have in detecting. I honestly do not think one answer is the best. I like to keep an open and clear head when choosing a detector and using it and most importantly, when I try and explain my posts. I do not know it all nor will I ever so, I wish everyone the very best in digging the great targets, who cares if you own a $99 detector or a $2,000 one, just dig and have fun!
I understand your point and yes, it makes sense but for the people that have PI Detectors, what I am kind of saying is, they really have no choice with the ATX Detector, you have no "Digital Screen" with graphs, etc. etc. etc. to tell you what the target may be so in turn, you end up leaving the target in the ground or you dig it. I would say, over 75% of the time in trash sites, many of the low target hits might be trash. You have a 50/50 shot so if a PI is what a person wants, they might as well dig everything. I guess it all depends on each person's perspective, or from each individual's observation. At least with the CTX, you get some sort of "Digital Graph" that might help a person in identifying the potential target. The screen may be right or it could be wrong, who knows. I was lucky in finding the ring with the White's PI, I was not going to dig it. The target pitch was so low, it was almost as if nothing was in the ground. It was faint and almost non-existent. So, also, it comes down to laziness when detecting. If I was really tired that day on the walk back to my truck, trust me, the ring would possibly be still buried. I can honestly say this, with the deal Minelab has going on now with the CTX giving you a $400 free coil and coil cover with your purchase, even if you do not use the 17" coil, you can sell it and make a few hundred back and at the same time, you can buy the CTX for around $2,000 at a few dealers if you call around asking for a price just for the detector, trash the extras you don't need and tell them you just want the CTX Detector, no extras. With this, Minelab is still giving you the free 17" Coil without any package deal so it's a good deal for the CTX right now. I think the free coil special ends May 31st. I honestly think, this is only my opinion, you can have a $99 dollar detector and it still comes down to the person working that detector compared to the person working the $2,000 detector, you are only as good as your experience and pinpointing the targets and being able to understand what it may be you found. So, a person with a low priced detector could run circles around a person with a high priced detector, everyone knows this to be a true statement. Getting back to the ATX vs. the CTX, if it were me, I would buy the CTX and save up for the ATX. Try both, pick one or keep both. I think Garrett and Minelab make great detectors along with some other detector manufacturers. I will say this again, I think it all depends on each person's perspective, or from each individual's observation and how much experience they have in detecting. I honestly do not think one answer is the best. I like to keep an open and clear head when choosing a detector and using it and most importantly, when I try and explain my posts. I do not know it all nor will I ever so, I wish everyone the very best in digging the great targets, who cares if you own a $99 detector or a $2,000 one, just dig and have fun!
Overvoltage
New member
I don't own an ATX but I do own an Infinium LS (both similar PI's) and a CTX3030. So I believe it is a similar comparison. They are very different tools. Each has its place. I use the CTX mostly for trashy land hunts (ball fields, tot lots), shallow fresh/salt water hunting and beach hunting. I use the Infinium LS for out in chest deep surf and deeper salt water (good to 200') and relic hunting in large open fields and dig all targets anyway. For me it is basically 1) A time management issue. If I have the time to dig everything (such as an all day long relic hunt) I use the Infinium. 2) A respect the turf issue, I don't want to be at the ballfield or a tot lot with my Infinium and a relic shovel digging a 2'+ deep hole. So, yes apples and oranges, but more like a rock pick vs a sledge hammer. The right tool for the job at hand.