CTX Learning Curve

[huntindog1]

How many people after having their CTX for some time are still learning about the the nuances of the machine.

I have had mine for around a year and basically used the base programs and played with sensitivity and fast , deep and high trash settings.

Of course with hunting different areas it gets complex in trying to keep all the variables straight in your head.

I need to start using some of the more advanced features, this year.

When I got my ETRAC 3 years ago (traded it in for ctx) maybe its just me but it seemed people had that thing figured out more than the CTX 3030.

I wonder if a person should go back and re-read all the ETRAC stuff to as a refresher on FBS type detectors.

Since the weather is bad and itching to go I really want to get more in depth on CTX what it can do and can not do.

As a side note alot of people talk about Gone Hunting program which is a pretty simple program.

But then seems like not alot of other programs that get alot of talk or talk about why it works good or why it doesnt work as good.

I like the way Sube digs into the machine. Thanks for your info.

 

[KinTN]

Good god Yes, still learning. Only had mine about 6 months but I expect to still be learning it when the next gen comes out in a decade or so.

I look at and study other's programs but never run them. Ground varies too much and every hunt, even at the same site things are slightly (or more) different every time you hunt it. Some days you figure out The Secret of the ground and some days you don't. Some days you stumble onto The Secret while tweeking/playing with your CTX. I guess someone else's program can be a good place to start, but the beauty of the CTX is how easily user modifiable it is. Learning the machine is a lot of fun too.

I think the main knowledge that the CTX has given me is to better understand what my Safari was trying to tell me. Target and Pinpoint Trace are my favorite features of the CTX. It isn't Xray vision, but it is on the trail to there.

 

[team sidewinder]

Having only had my CTX a few months and even then with the winter weather only had it out a dozen times. I love it and am happy with my purchase. The learning curve for me isn't that it is steep but rather it is gradual and long. My CTX replaces my 705 which although after using it 2 years I was still learning it so I expect to be learning all this machine has to offer for a long time.

 

[tcp]

I have had mine for about a year and I too have found the learning curve steep. I do not plan to ever use the GPS feature and I hope I never have to connect it to the computer again. I would appreciate a three or four hour workshop where I could ask questions. It would save hours trying to learn on my own. Perhaps someone could make some money on Facetime with their knowledge of selecting mode options.

 

[surfman]

I've had mine for about a year now and although I'm still learning I think I'm getting the hang of it. I started out with the gone hunting mode but soon modified it to suit my needs. I had a great year with it last season and dug quite a few deep targets that I know I would have walked over and never even heard with my Explorer. I just started using the 6" coil this past fall and love that thing. At first I was amazed at just how small it was but with only a little time with it I was pulling Merc's out of a really trashy home site. That coil is a must have if you hunt trashy sites.

 

[huntindog1]

Well I posted this to get some conversation going on learning this machine .

Glad you guys responded.

The base theory on these detectors is similar to the ETRAC so I would say if you go to the ETRAC forums you can pick up insights there also.

The CTX is faster processing times and has other features , its more accurate ID. I have read the CTX is more visual detector as in info on the screen.
As it can show you more stuff on the screen. The sounds of the ETRAC are more unique allowing people to discriminate with their ears.
The two tone ferrous of the ETRAC will get you a base idea for the more advanced version on the CTX. The CTX version is called the Combined mode.
The CTX instead of only having two tone ferrous (TTF) like etrac has 5 tone ferrous (5TF).

Here is Goes4ever explanation of two tone Ferrous:

http://www.goes4ever.com/ttf-explained.html

Check these out also:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,1726458,1726537#msg-1726537
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,1814421

 

[trojdor]

Well I posted this to get some conversation going on learning this machine .

The two tone ferrous of the ETRAC will get you a base idea for the more advanced version on the CTX. The CTX version is called the Combined mode.
The CTX instead of only having two tone ferrous (TTF) like etrac has 5 tone ferrous (5TF).

Kind of / not exactly.

The CTX DOES have a two tone ferrous (I use it a lot) ...and a four tone ferrous...and even a 35 tone ferrous....but no 5 tone ferrous.

The Tone ID Profiles are listed on page 36 of the manual;

1 single tone
2 tone CO
2 tone FE
4 tone CO
4 tone FE
35 tone FE
50 tone CO
Combined

I do agree that the CTX take time to learn, is a little complex, and the folk describing it as a 'turn on and go' detector are being somewhat misleading.


mike

 

[huntindog1]

Thanks for the correction.

Well I posted this to get some conversation going on learning this machine .

The two tone ferrous of the ETRAC will get you a base idea for the more advanced version on the CTX. The CTX version is called the Combined mode.
The CTX instead of only having two tone ferrous (TTF) like etrac has 5 tone ferrous (5TF).

Kind of / not exactly.

The CTX DOES have a two tone ferrous (I use it a lot) ...and a four tone ferrous...and even a 35 tone ferrous....but no 5 tone ferrous.

The Tone ID Profiles are listed on page 36 of the manual;

1 single tone
2 tone CO
2 tone FE
4 tone CO
4 tone FE
35 tone FE
50 tone CO
Combined

I do agree that the CTX take time to learn, is a little complex, and the folk describing it as a 'turn on and go' detector are being somewhat misleading.


mike

 

[huntindog1]

Here is some good info from Digger:
Looks like it points to the 5 tones:



Re: Help understanding combined mode
Posted by: Digger [ Send a Message ]
Date: August 20, 2012 02:56AM
Admin
Registered: 9 years ago
Posts: 5,677
Combined audio allows the user to hear different target signals, based on either ferrous or conductive properties. You set the ferrous line (horizontal line) where you want ferrous targets to provide the audio response. If, for example, you set it at 21, then any target with a ferrous reading of 21 or higher (larger number), you will hear the audio tone that you program for ferrous targets. On the other hand, if the target has a ferrous reading that is less than 21, the target response will be based on it's conductive properties. And in Combined audio, you have four "bins" representing conductive groups. With conductive numbers running from 01 - 50, you simply move the lines to represent different target groups, then assign a tone for each group. For example, you could set bin one with the lines at 01 and 14. Any target with a ferrous value less than 21, and a conductive value of 14 or less would "fall" into this bin and provide the audio tone you associated with it via programming. Bin two, for example, could represent targets between 15 and 28. Bin three could represent targets from 29 - 40. And bin four could be the remainder of conductive targets, with CO values of 41 - 50. So with the numbers used in these examples, if you passed over a target with a FE value of 12 and a CO value of 44, it would provide a conductive tone that you assigned to conductive bin space four. If you passed over a target that read 11/22, it would provide a tone based on conductive bin two. If the target read 24/29, it would give you the tone you programmed for the ferrous value (below the horizontal line). Again, the user can resize and assign tones to each target group (bin). For the folks who enjoyed hunting in Two Tone Ferrous on their E-TRACs, this is like TTF on steroids in that you can adjust the FE line, and break down the CO targets into four separate groups. HH Randy

 

[trojdor]

No, it points to a very detailed understanding of the COMBINED mode, (Re: Help understanding combined mode) but it's NOT a 5 tone FE.
You do get 5 tones in COMBINED mode...but they're not 5 FE tones.

It's called the COMBINED mode because it COMBINES the FE and the CO channels into one mode/screen...but only ONE FE tone, and FOUR CO tones.

It's by far the most popular mode because of that flexibility, but there's still times when TTF is useful/preferred.


HH,
mike

 

[Johnnyanglo]

Unless I'm mistaken, there are 2 Fe tones in combined mode. The second Fe tone exists because the four Co tone indicate the Fe value is NOT the bottom bin.

So, you get 4Co tones, 1Fe tone, and 1Fe non-tone in combined mode.

 

[trojdor]

Unless I'm mistaken, there are 2 Fe tones in combined mode. The second Fe tone exists because the four Co tone indicate the Fe value is NOT the bottom bin.

So, you get 4Co tones, 1Fe tone, and 1Fe non-tone in combined mode.

Johnnyanglo,
I'm not sure I follow you...perhaps it is I who am missing something?

You can set the breaks and frequency (in the tone profile) of a grand total of 5 tones in combined mode. Each of the 4 Co (top) bins and the 1 Fe (bottom) bin. There is no other tone to set.

What is this 1Fe 'non-tone' of which you speak?

thanks,
mike

 

[Jason in Enid]

I think there is some confusion here by trying to think of the CTX in E-Trac terms. Combined mode is both FE-toned and CO-toned. It is completely unique in letting the user define the tone points.

 

[Johnnyanglo]

="What is this 1Fe 'non-tone' of which you speak?"

I guess I wasn't clear... here's an example:

Let's say the bottom bin is set to 28Fe, everything above that is a Low Tone.

The other four bins are set to anything else that is not the same Low Tone.

Typically the four bins are described as 4 tone Co. But technically, in this example, they are all Fe tones < 28Fe.

So, if you are a ferrous tone hunter you have low tone for > 28Fe and NOT low tone for < 28Fe.

You get one tone for Ferrous and one other tone (from the 4 bins) that dfferentiates from the bottom bin (thus two Ferrous tones)

Essentially, setting the 4 tone Co to the same tone for all, with a LowTone for the bottom bin returns the combined mode to a TTF setup.

In the TTF you get just 2 Fe tones. The combined mode is TTF-like but the Co values selected don't change that you can still only differentiate 2 Fe zones.

Hope that makes sense,

Johnnyanglo

 

[huntindog1]

Here is more to add to this topic.

http://www.minelab.com/treasure-talk/combined-tone-id-profile-on-the-ctx-3030-the-best-of-both-worlds

Also Thanks for the explanation of the non-tone.

 

[trojdor]

="What is this 1Fe 'non-tone' of which you speak?"

I guess I wasn't clear... here's an example:

Let's say the bottom bin is set to 28Fe, everything above that is a Low Tone.

The other four bins are set to anything else that is not the same Low Tone.

Typically the four bins are described as 4 tone Co. But technically, in this example, they are all Fe tones < 28Fe.

So, if you are a ferrous tone hunter you have low tone for > 28Fe and NOT low tone for < 28Fe.

You get one tone for Ferrous and one other tone (from the 4 bins) that dfferentiates from the bottom bin (thus two Ferrous tones)

Essentially, setting the 4 tone Co to the same tone for all, with a LowTone for the bottom bin returns the combined mode to a TTF setup.

In the TTF you get just 2 Fe tones. The combined mode is TTF-like but the Co values selected don't change that you can still only differentiate 2 Fe zones.

Hope that makes sense,

Johnnyanglo

Ja,
Thanks, I'm following you now...
You're still talking the same number of tones/bins in combined, but you're actually being more specific about how they've defined ferrous/non-ferrous/conductive.
You're saying when you get a Co tone, it's also (by definition) a 'non' Fe tone, being on the other side of the Fe line.
(...and now your definition of an 'FE non-tone' make perfect sense.)

Who know? Maybe all this will change if/when the rumoured update happens.

mike

 

[Johnnyanglo]

I'm hoping the firmware upgrade will be something spectacular.

The perfect upgrade would:

1. ... allow the ability to assign a tone to each 1x1 screen pixel (1x1 frame)
2. ... allow assigned tone pixels to be color-coded to a palate of a dozen colors
3. ... allow the user to upload a dozen wav file tones of their own choosing to be used as tones


That would be the cat's meow

Johnnyanglo

 

[GKMan]

Johnny, you always sound geeky enough that you may actually want that level of control!

The first wav file that I would install would be "silver and gold" from the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer special.
[video]https://youtu.be/7EXCDCXaIkQ[/video]

 

[Digger]

Each of the 5 audio tones available in Combined are based on the location of the "bin" in which any given target will be categorized. Since we can change any of the target response tone frequencies for any of the "bins", the actual sound of each audio tone has nothing to do with a target being ferrous or non-ferrous. It is all about which bin the target is categorized into. In Combined audio, there is one bin at/below the horizontal ferrous line and four bins (each separated vertically) above the horizontal ferrous line. As the target is analyzed, FE and CO values are assigned within the parameters of the software. Since there are 35 possible Ferrous numbers, each combined with 50 possible conductive numbers, we have 1750 possible TID combinations. (For those who would like to have a different tone for each of the possible FE/CO combinations....good luck in deciphering those 1750 different audio tones!) If the ferrous properties (represented by the FE number) of that specific target place the target in a "bin" that is at or below where we set our ferrous line, the target audio response we receive correlates to the audio frequency that we assigned to that lower "ferrous" bin. If the target properties have less of a ferrous content than the number represented by the FE line, the audio response we get will be based on one of the four CO bins (separated by vertical lines) that we set up in our program. None of the tones are necessarily ferrous tones. And none of the tones are necessarily Conductive tones. They are simply audio tones that we have assigned to the bins. Since every target you detect will be "placed" in one of those bins, based on the FE and CO properties, each target will provide the audio response you have programmed to that specific bin.

The Tone ID profile is allowing us to chose how many tones we want to listen for, and what TID values each tone will be based on. The tone you hear is based on which bin you have programmed for each target's FE and CO properties. If you chose a single tone, all targets detected will provide that same tone regardless of FE or CO values, because there is only one bin. If you chose Two Tone Conductive, you now have two CO bins. And you will hear one of two different tones you assign, depending on the CO value of the target (which side of the vertical line it is sent to). If you chose Two Tone Ferrous, you now have two ferrous bins. And you will hear one of two different tones you have assigned, depending on the target's FE value (which side of the horizontal line it goes to). If you chose Four Tone CO, you now have four conductive bins. And you will hear one of four tones you have assigned, based on the CO value of the bin which represents that CO value. If you chose Four Tone Ferrous, you now have four ferrous bins. And you will hear one of the four tones you have assigned, based on the FE value of the bin you have chosen to represent that FE value. If you select 35 FE, you will hear one of 35 (graduated) tones, based on frequency range you have selected, and the FE value of the target. If you select 50 CO, you will hear one of 50 (graduated) tones, based on the frequency range you have chosen, and the CO value of the target. If you select Combined, you will hear either a tone based on FE properties, representing a target who's value is equal to or greater than the FE properties you have programmed to the bin at or below the FE line. Or, you will hear a tone based on the CO properties, representing the "bin" for the CO properties you have programmed above that Ferrous line. Granted, the four CO tone choices for this specific target are available because the FE value placed the target above the FE line. But the tone is provided based on the bin selection, which is determined by the CO value of the target. JMHO HH Randy

 

[Johnnyanglo]

...good luck in deciphering those 1750 different audio tones!

You always have 1750 possible audio tones - no matter what you do. The key is to have the ability to create bins anywhere within those 1750 tones. That currently you cannot do.

I would also like to have a wav file that says "gold" or "nickel" rather than "beep" or "beeep".