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CTX Discrimination & Silver - Iron Bounce & No Audio?

Coin Sniper

New member
Hello all,

I'm having an issue with the CTX that I need some help with.

First of all, let me just throw in the fact that I've only had the CTX for a few months and that this is my first-ever metal detector, so to say that I'm a newbie is an understatement. :lol:

I've been getting out and practicing as much as time will allow and I'm having lots of fun finding stuff with my wife and kids, which was the point of getting a detector in the first place. In order for me to learn the visual side of this machine, I've taken a notebook with me and I've been writing down all of the FE-CO numbers I've personally dug up. I've also added the FE-CO numbers of clad and rings that I've thrown out in my backyard. Finally, I've taken the liberty of adding the FE-CO numbers that I've been able to see on many of the videos I've watched. The idea here was to build a database of FE-CO numbers so that I could try to identify what was in the ground before even cutting a plug or moving any sand or rocks. I've called a few out and my kids now think that I'm a mind reader, so I guess I'm on the right track. ;)

After going over the database of numbers with my oldest son, we noticed that almost everything I've written down resides somewhere on the FE 12 line. The two exceptions, so far, are one item on the FE 11 line and another on the FE 13 line. Using this data as the basis for building an aggressive discrimination pattern, we decided to create a discrimination pattern to eliminate everything from FE lines 1-10 and FE lines 14-35, leaving only FE lines 11-13 available. Yes, I agree that this is an unconventional discrimination pattern, but we had an awesome time pulling clad out of a rocky beach a couple of weeks ago!

Here's where things get confusing for me:

Yesterday, I decided to take out some oddball coins that I've had stored away for years and run the coil over them in my backyard. Within those coins, I happened across a tarnished 1890 Morgan silver dollar. To my surprise, running the discrimination pattern that my son and I set up, I was getting a pretty steady 12-42 on the visual, but no audio whatsoever because the CTX was simultaneously bouncing towards 35-50. Obviously, this confused me and prompted some questions:

1) In Ferrous-Coin mode, does a Morgan silver dollar read 12-42 with an iron bounce to the extreme lower right corner? I have ZERO experience with silver coins, so maybe it's doing what it's supposed to do?

2) Whenever I've dug anything with an echo that far down in the chart, it's always been junk. Is this a correct assessment?

3) If I run this particular discrimination pattern and happen across something silver (assuming the iron bounce over silver items to be correct) or something that has a nail next to it and the CTX kills all of the audio (due to the simultaneous iron reading), if I happen to not be looking at the video screen at that moment and miss that big red "dig me" dot on the screen, I'll have essentially walked over a worthy target and not even have known it, right?

What do you think about this? I highly doubt that I've missed any Morgans :)lol:), but I don't want to imagine that I've been doing things correctly only to find out at a later date that I've been leaving good targets in the ground.

As an example, I took this quick video with my phone. At first, I show that the ground is clean. After, I toss down the Morgan and swing over it with an open screen. You can see the 12-42 and the bounce down to iron and hear the external speaker doing its job. When I switch over to the discriminated screen, however, all the sounds disappear, but the video screen continues to do its job correctly.

http://vimeo.com/57487635

Thanks in advance for your time and efforts!
 
With or without sound if I had a target that solid within the pattern I would dig it with those Fe-Co numbers, especially if it's 5" or deeper. That close to the coil is highly unlikely in a real-world dig, so bury the coin, and retest it. See if you get the same results.
 
As you gain more experience you will discover that less discrimination is better...... far better. Many of us listen to most of the targets in the ground and let the brain do the discriminating because in time, you will develop a sixth sense. A little voice telling you to dig that iffie target with the odd numbers and the audio that just doesn't sound quite right for trash. :devil: You just might find your best ever finds that way. Try the dollar with the coins program and see what you get and be sure to spend some time with P2, the open screen. After you get a couple hundred hours with the CTX, I think you will be using a lot less discrimination. :biggrin:
 
Am I the only one that doesn't see a video here?
 
\"Dr.Tones\" said:
Am I the only one that doesn't see a video here?

Yup, it must be that damn MAC. :rant:
 
Haha, must be. I'm on my iPad so ill have to checkit out when I get home.
 
Larry (IL) said:
As you gain more experience you will discover that less discrimination is better...... far better. Many of us listen to most of the targets in the ground and let the brain do the discriminating because in time, you will develop a sixth sense. A little voice telling you to dig that iffie target with the odd numbers and the audio that just doesn't sound quite right for trash. :devil: You just might find your best ever finds that way. Try the dollar with the coins program and see what you get and be sure to spend some time with P2, the open screen. After you get a couple hundred hours with the CTX, I think you will be using a lot less discrimination. :biggrin:

I replied to your post in the other forum but Larry nailed it. Discrimination is the DEVIL! lol
 
A 12-42 is more in the silver dime range isn't it? At least from what I've seen on videos.Or will to much disc. make that number lower on these> My CTX just showed up today, so thank you Bart..I have lots to learn also.
 
ronfin said:
With or without sound if I had a target that solid within the pattern I would dig it with those Fe-Co numbers, especially if it's 5" or deeper. That close to the coil is highly unlikely in a real-world dig, so bury the coin, and retest it. See if you get the same results.

Ron, my oldest son and I were just experimenting, like we always do. This experiment happened to leave us with the unknown of why I wasn't hearing the coin's signature, but was seeing it on the screen. As I've read many times before, everyone is listening first, then checking their screens when they hear an audio signature that sounds "correct". My problem is, the screen is doing its job, but the audio is non-existent, due to the iron bounce and the discrimination. This was just a test, so no harm done. However, if it were a real-world scenario, I would've walked right over a Morgan and never known it, unless I happend to peek at the screen at that particular moment. THAT is what I need to figure out. My inexperience is probably what is to blame, but I need to figure out the why of this scenario so that I learn the machine a little better.
 
Larry (IL) said:
As you gain more experience you will discover that less discrimination is better...... far better. Many of us listen to most of the targets in the ground and let the brain do the discriminating because in time, you will develop a sixth sense. A little voice telling you to dig that iffie target with the odd numbers and the audio that just doesn't sound quite right for trash. :devil: You just might find your best ever finds that way. Try the dollar with the coins program and see what you get and be sure to spend some time with P2, the open screen. After you get a couple hundred hours with the CTX, I think you will be using a lot less discrimination. :biggrin:

Larry, I completely agree. Please see my reply to Ron above. Thank you for your input!
 
\"Dr.Tones\" said:
Am I the only one that doesn't see a video here?

Doc, it doesn't show on my son's iPad, either. I guess it's just an Apple thing?
 
Big Boys Hobbies said:
Larry (IL) said:
As you gain more experience you will discover that less discrimination is better...... far better. Many of us listen to most of the targets in the ground and let the brain do the discriminating because in time, you will develop a sixth sense. A little voice telling you to dig that iffie target with the odd numbers and the audio that just doesn't sound quite right for trash. :devil: You just might find your best ever finds that way. Try the dollar with the coins program and see what you get and be sure to spend some time with P2, the open screen. After you get a couple hundred hours with the CTX, I think you will be using a lot less discrimination. :biggrin:

I replied to your post in the other forum but Larry nailed it. Discrimination is the DEVIL! lol

Bart, you crack me up! :laugh:
 
WildOutdoorAddict said:
A 12-42 is more in the silver dime range isn't it? At least from what I've seen on videos.Or will to much disc. make that number lower on these> My CTX just showed up today, so thank you Bart..I have lots to learn also.

Too much discrimination will not change the FE-CO numbers. They are what they are and should come through on your screen as such. The issue I'm trying to figure out is why I'm not HEARING a good signature on the FE 12 line due to a discriminated FE 50 line. As I've read, one should hear the target first, then check the screen. How do you check the screen, though, when the audio doesn't come through? That is my dilemma with the Morgan and the reason for my post.
 
Victor, you have come across something noticed early on. When Digger, Gonehunting, and I were compiling the coin responses for the TID chart, we noticed this. You will probably see, that silver dollars and silvers halves, in particular, can read in a couple of places, depending on the Tone Mode being used. The dollar seems to want to be on the 1 FE - 39-42 CO when in the Low Trash, High Trash, and Ground Coin, but on the 12 line for the Ferrous Coin tone mode. When in the Ferrous Coin mode, in addition to the bulls eye on the 12 line, it has either a bulls eye, or red square, down in the bottom right corner. (depending on, if the bottom right corner is disc.d out or not). You will, also find in the Ferrous Coin tone mode, if you have 12 line open, and have the 1 line disc.d out where the dollar reads when in the other Tone Modes, you will receive a bulls eye on the 12 line, but no sound response. Still in the Ferrous Coin tone mode, if you open the 1 line for the silver dollar area, you will still get the 12 line reading, but will also get a tone. The half does similar things, but has different TID numbers. I'm no electronics person or programmer, but I always thought that this could possibly have been some kind of a programing error. Maybe not though. At any rate, I always keep the TID areas of the silver dollar and silver half open, so as to get a audio response.
I will point out one more thing. If you only hunt with the 12 line open, you miss a lot of good targets. Additional coins, of like metal or not (toss a nickel in with silver and scan it), angle of coin in the ground, etc. can cause the FE-CO numbers to vary. Whenever I have created my disc. patterns, I always have a tolerance of a couple of numbers each way from the "perfect world" numbers achieved by scanning. I actually use a very open pattern usually and don't use a tight disc. pattern very often, just depends on the area. Getting the tone bins set for yourself, is more important to me. It will alert you to what target range is under the coil, by the tone, then it's up to you to determine if the target is worthy of recovery or not............HH
 
Video shows up on my iMac but not on my iPad? Whatever. Anyways... Minelab NEEDS TO ADDRESS THIS!
 
Ok... So I just tried to replicate this on my CTX using a disc. program that is very similar to the stock coin program. In ferrous coin target separation I get a response both visually and auditory at 12:42. I also get the iron target that shows up in the lower right corner showing the red square around it because it's disced out. The only thing that I can think of is that you're pattern might be to tight around that 12:42 area and it's cutting off the top and bottom of your bulls eye target. Try opening up that 12:42 area a little and see what happens. I did notice that if you're using a high trash pattern in the high trash target separation mode you'll miss those large silvers every time.
 
Open up the 1 line from 39 to 48 and you will get tone for silver dollars. High Trash and Low Trash tone mode silver dollars read on the 1 line.
 
C&RHunter said:
Open up the 1 line from 39 to 48 and you will get tone for silver dollars. High Trash and Low Trash tone mode silver dollars read on the 1 line.

I need to make a correction. I have no idea, in my two prior posts, why I have been referring to "Tone Modes"???? Low Trash, High Trash, Ferrous Coin, and Ground Coin are Target Separation settings...........HH
 
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