cross saving

[budsmith]

well I cant seem to get this cross saving right in my head, could one of you pros help me understand it and why I need to use it>>>This a great forum and I read all of your post and have learned a lot and just waiting for the sun to shine and the warmer days to get into my test garden.....Bud

 

[Golden]

Hello budsmith, it's quite simple, really. Try this: select the relic search mode. Set it the way you think you would use it if detecting for relics. Now, you'd like to go into coin mode, using this same setting that you have in the relics mode. While you are in the relic mode, press the touchpad on the coin mode and hold down for a second or two. You should come up with "saved" after pressing the coin touchpad. Now you have your favorite settings saved from relic mode, to coin mode. This is called "cross saving". The reason some people use the cross saving feature is so that they can enjoy their particular style of detecting, but have the preference of using the ferrous or conductivity based audio response. Or they may like the ID icons on or off. I would suggest that you get a hold of the book written by Andy Sabisch on mastering the quattro, go to p. 43-52 and study it carefully, if you haven't already done so. Just try my suggestion, and learn what each of the modes are capable of doing, with the different settings, and take note of the differennces of tones and signals for same targets, in different modes. It just takes a bit of practice, but you'll get there.
Golden

 

[Gila Marc]

Hi.....Good reply, Golden. But I have another question on this same subject: Coin Mode reads high conductivity as high tones, low conductivity as low tones.....Relic Mode reads low ferrous as high tones, high ferrous as low tones. Now the question: Since a silver coin is BOTH high conductivity AND low ferrous, wouldn't it sound the same in EITHER mode? Most high conductivity objects are low ferrous, so they would sound a high tone in either mode. What's the point??

Maybe I'm missing something here...and I have Sabisch's book, and have read it several times, but still can't seem to grasp the point of cross saving.

Marc

 

[beachguy777]

Gila, how ya doin? This is the voice of guilt here, Marc Trainor. I'm so busy, and need to work tons of hours, I can't get with you quite yet, but that's another post, privatlly. Ok, I'm going nuts on this audio thing, but I pulled Andy's book out and I'd turn to page 46 and 47. This deal's getting pretty tricky here, so I'll take it slow and solomenly, but here's what it sounds like to me. On the Quatro, the "numeric" reading is always based on the ferrous versus conductivity rating: in onther words, if your looking at a nail or an old piece of iron it's gonna be in the negative number range, (-10 to -1) If it's a piece of tin foil, pull tab, copper, silver, it's gonna be in the 0 to 40 (positive number range). That's it for the numberic reading portion. Where it get's confusing to me and pretty tricky is the audio portion. On page 46 you'll see where the Explorer has two different "visual" settings, ferrous and conductive, where as the Quatro only has one visual setting. Notice that a wheat penny on the Explorer "visual" reading has 27 as conductive and 5 as ferrous. Now look at the same "Explorer" reading for a screw cap. The conductive reading is still 27 but the "ferrous reading" is 08, a higher reading than the 05 for the ferrous reading on the wheatback. Apparently, what we're seeing here is even though the wheatback would read at around 34 on a Quatro, and 27 on an Explorer, there must be some kind of "ferrous content" in both the wheatback and the screw cap in order for the Explorer to decern the differens in the "ferrous content". That's where I'm wondering what's going on here, but, all I know is what I'm seeing here and there's sure a difference in the "ferrous reading of the two different targets". Ok, with all that said, jump over to page 47 in the book and notice that even on the Explorer the two different targets here would have the same conductivity reading but different ferrous readiings. According to Andy, on the Quatro, when the audio is set at conductivity, there wouldn't be any noticible difference, but when you set the audio to the ferrous mode the screw cap would be lower tone than the wheatback. In other words, since the difference couldn't be seen on the visual screen because the Quatro only has one visual reference, you have to go to the audio to see the difference, meaning that the ferrous audio would show the difference. Whewwwwww. I hope I'm right on that, because that, to me is the whole crux of this audio cross saving thing and the main reason why we might use it. According to Andy, some ferrous targets can become conductive and give a high audio reading, but when you look at the visual reading it confirms that yes, it's truly a ferrous item wiht a low minus numeric reading. on the other hand, look on page 42. If your trying to read a dime, a quarter an indian head and a bullett in conductive audio, you won't hear any differnce but once you change over or "cross over" to the ferrious audio, you can hear the difference between those different targets. Also once you cross save from one mode to the other, you also need to go back and check on which numbers you want to be discriminated. At that point you can just "re-adjust" the discrimination "numbers" to suit your needs, In other words, first do the cross save for the audio preferences, then re-adjust the discrimination settings. Hope I'm right on all that, and hope it helps. Marc Trainor.

 

[beachguy777]

Gila, here's an adjunct to that huge, technical post I just sent to you. I pulled uout my Quatro. Set it on all metal. I have one mode with all metal and conductive audio and one with all metal and ferrous audio. I took a paper clip and waved it across the coil in all metal conductive. The "numeric" reading was -8 and the audio was high pitched. I did the same test in the same mode with a quarter and the pitch was about the same in audio but the "numeric" reading was +38 which is what I'd expect from a quareter. Ok,,, then I switched to ferrous audio, all metal and did the same test. The paper clip had a very low audio tone and read -8 on the "numberic" readout. The Quarter had a high pitched tone and read +38 on the "numeric readout". , which seems to coinside with what Andy is saying about all this. In reference to your question about, "gee, why bother with the different audio settings, in orther words, "what's the point". Good question, and my only answer is that as far as reading silver or any highly conductive material is: I's gonna get a positive numberic reading, whether your in ferious auido or conductive audio, but the audio will be different on a silver coin versus a paper clip or a piece of iron or something of lower range in the ferrous reading. I think the main point of all this is: The main reason for going with the ferrous audio, is the target discrimination factor. Yes, silver reads the same, ( a high pitched, "numeric reading and tone audibly also", but the difference is in the audio ferrous setting you could tell if it's silver or iron by the audio tone. Marc Trainor.

 

[Golden]

all cross saving is, having the benefit of ferrous and conductive sounds or signals. Here in Oz, we have 2 types of silver coin readings, those prior to 1947 have a higher silver content, those after 1947, have a lower silver content. Becuase we do a lot of goldfields detecting, we use All Metal mode, as our silver coins give a very crisp, high pitch sound, and read high on the numeric scale, which distinguishes easily from other coins, like your copper and brass. I think your coins may read a little differently, and I'm not familiar with these. What you can do is by using a discrimination pattern of say the coin/jewelry mode, and cross saving to benefit from the ferrous sounds. When I first started to detect, I used to cross save from the coin/jewelry mode into the All metal mode with a discrimination pattern from the coin/jewelry mode, set into place. When I'd detect a target, I'd press the touchpad on the All metal, and go from the cross saved pattern, to the All metal pattern (with no discrimination), just to hear the differences in tone and sound, and there was a difference, particularly with old objects like iron.
By listening to the differences in sounds, I soon learned to know the difference between a possible good target, from rubbish, so now, I can walk away from sounds I know to be rubbish. Occasionally I dig these sounds, to verify it to myself. I don't use the cross saving anymore, as I purely detect In all metal, whether on the beach or goldfields, as the cross saving method helped me to understand what is likely to be a good or bad target. But this applies greatly more so, on the goldfields. On the beach, your rubbish can have same or similar sounds to good targets, like rings or coins, which is why unfortunatley you may have to dig everything in rubbishy ground, to get the good targets. Fortunately, the beaches I hit, aren't so bad.
I haven't used cross saving for ages, so if there's anything I'm missing, I've probably forgotten. Maybe someone else here may be able to shed more light on the subject.
Cheers Golden

 

[Wirechief]

Hey Marc, I hunt in the all-metal mode with the ferrous audio. I can't stand all those high tones in conductive. Our soil is full of iron and so the ferrous audio kinda gives me a low tone floor and when the coins are detected they pop up right through the low tone. I really like the Quattro even though it is pretty slow and I am using the Platypus coil on it. I love the high tone from the coins. Ok Marc CU later.

John Tomlinson,CET

 

[beachguy777]

Yea, I'm with you on that ferrous audio. I prefer it too for the same reason you like it. By the way, how do you like that Platypus coil. I think I heard you say in another post it was pretty sensitive. I'll bet you get some good depth with it. Take care, and talk at you later. (I don't think I'll ever live down the fact I write such long posts. I just get wrapped up in it and before you know it it's half a page. Well, let me know how you like the Platypus, I'm curious. Marc.

 

[Wirechief]

That's ok Marc just write what you think! I love the Platypus and it is a permanent part of my Quattro now. I love the shape and yes it is sensitive and appears to be pretty deep. Doesn't feel near as bulky as the stock coil. Ok CU later and happy hunting!

John Tomlinson,CET

 

[Gila Marc]

Uhhhh.....Ok. And thanks to all replies!!!

I THINK it's a little clearer. I guess the different audio modes kinda make up for not having the two thing-um-bobbers the Explorer has. I can see that now. I need a lot more effort and practice, I can see!!

Marc

 

[beachguy777]

Bless your heart, Gila. If you read the "monster" post I did, you get an award just for reading it, in my eyes. I need to try and simplify my posts a whole bunch, but I think you got the idea. At least as far as I see it, the Explorer has "both" the numeric readouts and multiple audio sounds, whereas the Quatro only has one numeric readout and multiple audio sounds. Don't feel bad about all this, I've had my detector for a couple of years now and I'm still working on this audio diferintiation thing. I don't think it's too complicated, but for some reason I don't have it "totally", straight in my head, where I don't have to "think" about it all the time. I guess that just comes from practice, practice and some study and more practice. I've been slammed at work lately so I'm on the hot seat at the moment as far as being able to go out of town, but I promise I'll call or email you soon and we can talk a little more about possibly getting together and when. Take care, Marc.

 

[budsmith]

Its a little cool out today but the sun is shining so I got out in the
garden.....I have penny, nickel, dime, quarter at depths of 3, 6, 9, 12 inches....the quattro picked up signal in 3, 6, and iffy in 9, but couldn't get any signal at all in 12, not even in all metal...On pinpoint on the 6 and 9, I get some chattering on the audio, not a solid sound, like its not quite picking it up solidly..Dont know what that means...Overall I'm picking up on it and getting better in understanding...Bud

 

[beachguy777]

Budsmith. One more thing I forgot to mention that could affect depth, it's the sensitivity setting. I would try everything from Auto to Manual and start going down a number at a time and see how it reads. If your getting all kinds of extra, spurious, noises, it's probably too high of a manual setting and you should set it lower. That's been a big debate for years, this sensitivity setting, but it's really important to learn how it reacts, because, I believe in good soil, if you could set it on a high manual setting you'd probably get a little more depth. Take care, and keep posting. Marc.