Could this be the origin of some "off limits" spots:

[Tom_in_CA]

I am thinking of a particular location, that for several decades now, rumor has it amongst hobbyist's ranks, that it is "off limits". I don't want to say the name of the place, lest it merely start a minutia rules debate, over whether it really is, or isn't, off-limits. That part, for the moment, isn't important. The important thing is, that md'rs believed it is. Perhaps someone 20+ yrs. ago went in and asked at an entrance kiosk, and was told "no" by a confused desk clerk. Or perhaps someone got booted by an overzealous bored cop having a bad day? Who knows. But in each case, here's what might have happened next: The md'r who got the booting or the "no", promptly spreads the word to his fellow hobbyists at the next club meeting. Or tells the dealer in his area, who in turn puts the word out to other customers. Afterall, you wouldn't want to "be arrested" would you? And in today's internet age, information is diseminated even faster with all the hobbyist forums.

Well an interesting thing happened at this particular location though: A newbie hobbyist, who just didn't know any better, went to detect here. He did quite well in the dry sand. So well in fact, that he couldn't understand why locals weren't "all over it". So he went back everyday, for an entire week. He'd go in broad daylight, right in front of everyone and everyone, and never had a problem.

Then one day, he spills his "secret spot" to a long-time hobbyist in that area. The long-timer tells him "that place is off limits". The surprised newbie can't believe it! At first, he thinks the long-timer must simply be mistaken. Because surely someone would have said something to him by then. And the more he thinks about it, the more he realizes he went right in front of manned lifeguard towers, right past passing ranger trucks in full view, etc... No one cared.

So now the newbie is faced with this new information, and you can imagine, he's half tempted to simply continue, since obviously, no one seemed to care. The other part of him is asking himself "says who?" or "is it really off-limits"?

I give this example, because whenever I read on-line of some imminent park closure to md'ing, or a park(s) that are off-limits, I sometimes wonder if it's not a case of the above example: Someone asked a kiosk, finds some desk-bound bureaucrat to tell him "no" (because perhaps they morph something else to apply to his "pressing question"). Or someone got booted by a over-zealous bored gardener or ranger who *thought* you shouldn't be doing that. In each case, we dutifully let each other know. Information spreads, and pretty soon, it's just taken for fact. And then, flash forward 20+ yrs. later, everyone's looking around at each other wondering "says who?" "Is it really off-limits?".

 

[El]

Hey Tom, so would you say this place is within about 50 miles of where I live?

 

[jim tn]

Tom, good post...and I concur as I know for a fact that that has happened. And, the same can be said for those "hunted out spots." HH jim tn

 

[Tom_in_CA]

El, as I say, I decline to say the location, because then people would merely focus on the semantics of the particular place in question, rather than focusing on the larger culture psychology evolution picture that I'm asking about.

Or put another way: if a question like this is posed, and someone cites the name of an actual park or beach, then people would do this: Simply go to a kiosk, or desk-bound bureaucrat, and ask. Sounds simple, right? Seems to end any such debate, right? But do you see the circular logic? If you read the way I pose my question, it's answers that come from situations like that, that simply lend themselves to the question I started with.

I mean, it seems like a no-brainer to simply go ask "can I metal detect" to end any such question of whether there really is, or isn't, rules. But you know full well there are MANY places we can detect that .......... truth be known: if you kept asking high enough up the ladder, with the right combination of buzz words, you can eventually get yourself a "no". And oddly, they are places that no one cares, and get detected routinely. Ie.: no one cares till you asked. Thus my reason for declining to give the sample sites name, lest it detract from the larger question of the self-fulfilling psychology of all this.

 

[El]

I'm not asking for the location just wondering if I was within 50 miles of it.

 

[dahut]

.... whenever I read on-line of some imminent park closure to md'ing, or a park(s) that are off-limits, I sometimes wonder if it's not a case of ... someone asked a kiosk, finds some desk-bound bureaucrat to tell him "no" (because perhaps they morph something else to apply to his "pressing question"). Or someone got booted by a over-zealous bored gardener or ranger who *thought* you shouldn't be doing that. In each case, we dutifully let each other know. Information spreads, and pretty soon, it's just taken for fact. And then, flash forward 20+ yrs. later, everyone's looking around at each other wondering "says who

Sometimes it is just hearsay, sometimes its a genuine ban. I've experienced both.
In either case, the best way to find out is to start detecting.
If there is no problem, you'll know that. If there is a real issue, you'll know that soon enough, too.

This does not apply to private or fenced property, however. In these cases, you must know before you go.

 

[dewcon4414]

Ive gotten the ole .... well we just havent gotten the money to make new signs from park workers. Of course the park manager said as long as no one complains its ok. That tells you something right there. Toms right its easier to just say NO. You also get the Park Manager who clearly believe this is his property believing we are vandals destroying the park. I had one tell me if i let you do it EVERYONE will be diggin up the park. People clearly dont understand our hobby. But our posts dont help sometimes either. Apparently we arent very consistent as a group when it comes to digging.... do we need training or are we just lazy?

Dew

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Get permission from the powers to be, conduct yourself in a proper manner and be neat all comes to mind.

I think the problem emerges when we don't ask permission and leave a mess and the fences-signs and the like go up as we are all penalized for one bad apple..

Indeed there is a thin line between public and private property and what constitutes damaging the property so act accordingly....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dan, you say:

" Get permission from the powers to be ...... I think the problem emerges when we don't ask permission "

Instead of this (when it comes to public parks) couldn't a person do this instead: Look into the rules himself.

City park rules (laws, codes, regulations, etc...) is information a person can get at a city's website. If the city has no website, then they would have their codes and charter and stuff available for public viewing, usually at city hall somewhere on the front desk. If the md'r were to go through there, and see no prohibition or mention of detecting, then isn't that good enough? Why would a person need permission for something that isn't prohibited?

Because to ask permission (for something of which there's no prohibition) merely sets you up for the capricious whims of whomever you're asking, when in fact, there may be no actual rule, nor might that person have ever really cared or given the matter thought, nor ever have noticed you.

 

[targets]

its a job for the metal detecting shoes ?
i put a 4inch coil into a boot many years ago for my Tesoro

 

[Craig]

My rule is to never carry a shovel !!!! I have been places were I am questioned by park employee's. I show them what I am doing and they just say" have fun". I also save all the trash I am getting there amazed what's in the ground !

 

[dixiedigger57]

all good things must come to and end, and due to some REAR ENDS, i am afraid our little hobby is getting larger in numbers, therefore creating more chances for dummies that dont care or not serious, just stupid, getting us all on the not so good list. i see this often, some idiot with a big box store unit digging a churchyard or cemetary side lot and stuff. makes me sick. lost some private property due to poachers, got revoked. I shared finds, including gold rings with the nice little stones with owners, and kept it secret. then the dont ask, just go do it, all they can do the first time is run us off crowd hit. private lake, 12 rings in 4 outtings to start with, not counting other monies and jewelry. but now revoked because of newbie.poacher. that was my lost dutchman mine! i never put that news out to anyone, took yrs to get in. but owner got mad about poacher and said no more. even with a diamond and sapphire ring i handed over promptly out of agreement the first day. finds were split so not total loss, just soooo much more hunting could have been done. thanks jerk whoever you were!

 

[jmaryt]

well this kind of s**t can and does happen! i seen it enough myself over the years!..all ya can really do is to continue to do the right
thing!..and that is,make sure YOU cover ALL your holes,and hope and pray that everyone else does the same!..just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

this is exactly the problem!..YOU can demonstrate and convince the park employee
that YOU dig properly,and leave the place in better condition then what you found it in,
however it doesn't make 2 s**ts difference,because some a**wipe has already been through there
and tore the place up! it's "very disconcerting" because the "knothead" has f**ked YOU,AND everyone
else after him!..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

i agree with this analogy!..give it a shot,and you will know in short order,
once you open the ground up whether ,or not, you will have a "short" day.
of course,this ONLY applies to public places,and it's NOT "healthy" to attempt this on "private"
property,as has been already stated.

(h.h.!)
j.t.