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Anonymous
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I don
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A
Anonymous
Guest
Cody,
The details of how a target responds to a dynamic magnetic field are complex and probably not of much interest to very many people.
ABOUT CONDUCTIVITY
Materials fall into generally three categories:
#1 Conductors are generally metals that have good conductivity from an overall standpoint. But, even in the conductor category there are significant difference such as good, better and best.
#2 Semiconductors are the materials from which transistors, diodes and etc. are made. These are not good conductors, but they adequate for some very important applications in electronics and are indispensible in today's world.
#3 Insulators are very very poor conductors and are intended to prevent conduction of electrical current
ABOUT LOOPS (e.g. CHAINS)
The eddy currents flow essentially around the outside perimeter of the target to prevent a changing magnetic field from penetrating the target. As a result the magnetic field is diverted around the target. The bigger the loop, the greater distortion of the magnetic field. This is a complex mechanism but follows very well and understandable laws of physics that I can discuss via email with anyone that may be interested.
A small loop creates only a slight distortion of the magnetic field. A large loop creates a larger distortion of the magnetic field. Now a chain is made up of a series of very small loops (of very small diameter) combined to make the large loop ( but of small diameter conductors). The problem is that every small loop must be making intimate contact to the adjoining loop or (from an electrical standpoint) we simply see a lot of small loops and no large loop. A group of small loops just do not create much distortion in the magnetic field and are difficult to detect.
YOUR RING WITH A CUT IN THE BAND
This behaves just as the discription of the chain. In this case there is no intimate contact around the large loop. Even when you touch the ends together, the contact is not intimate. If you soldered the end pieces together (to make intimate contact), then it will behave like a ring again. Even with a sterling silver ring (with the band broken) you will experience the same thing.
Sorry that this is so boring, especially if you do not have a love for physics.
HH,
Glenn
The details of how a target responds to a dynamic magnetic field are complex and probably not of much interest to very many people.
ABOUT CONDUCTIVITY
Materials fall into generally three categories:
#1 Conductors are generally metals that have good conductivity from an overall standpoint. But, even in the conductor category there are significant difference such as good, better and best.
#2 Semiconductors are the materials from which transistors, diodes and etc. are made. These are not good conductors, but they adequate for some very important applications in electronics and are indispensible in today's world.
#3 Insulators are very very poor conductors and are intended to prevent conduction of electrical current
ABOUT LOOPS (e.g. CHAINS)
The eddy currents flow essentially around the outside perimeter of the target to prevent a changing magnetic field from penetrating the target. As a result the magnetic field is diverted around the target. The bigger the loop, the greater distortion of the magnetic field. This is a complex mechanism but follows very well and understandable laws of physics that I can discuss via email with anyone that may be interested.
A small loop creates only a slight distortion of the magnetic field. A large loop creates a larger distortion of the magnetic field. Now a chain is made up of a series of very small loops (of very small diameter) combined to make the large loop ( but of small diameter conductors). The problem is that every small loop must be making intimate contact to the adjoining loop or (from an electrical standpoint) we simply see a lot of small loops and no large loop. A group of small loops just do not create much distortion in the magnetic field and are difficult to detect.
YOUR RING WITH A CUT IN THE BAND
This behaves just as the discription of the chain. In this case there is no intimate contact around the large loop. Even when you touch the ends together, the contact is not intimate. If you soldered the end pieces together (to make intimate contact), then it will behave like a ring again. Even with a sterling silver ring (with the band broken) you will experience the same thing.
Sorry that this is so boring, especially if you do not have a love for physics.
HH,
Glenn
A
Anonymous
Guest
couldn't the presence of water(especially salt water) act as the conductor to create the intimate connection for the cut ring or between from link to link of a small gold chain?
I have observed that in a small container of water with varying degree of salt added there was no difference in readings and detectabilty of a small gold chain even though the salt water was present.
I haven't soldered the links of a gold chain together as yet, but I don't think I will as it would be unrealistic to expect this to be the case when searching for such items in the field.
What do you think?
David Di
I have observed that in a small container of water with varying degree of salt added there was no difference in readings and detectabilty of a small gold chain even though the salt water was present.
I haven't soldered the links of a gold chain together as yet, but I don't think I will as it would be unrealistic to expect this to be the case when searching for such items in the field.
What do you think?
David Di
A
Anonymous
Guest
I don't find it at all boring but then that may be a hint to move on so will take it to heart. Thanks Glenn, you are alwasy there to help us with those "mysteries" of what the heck is going on here.
HH, Cody
HH, Cody
A
Anonymous
Guest
I have read and heard many different explanations for the difficulty in detecting any metal that is in chain form. I don't recall a TR or BFO having any problems with a chain at all. It was only after the ground blance VLF detector that I had any problems detecting chain of any kind. I found many types, sizes, and shapes of chain over the years before the VLF and ground balance. I seem to recall a very good post by an engineer that believed that chain links look like ground minerals to the detector. It is interesting that in pinpoint the detector has no problem with chains. Somewhere between the holes and electrons in a semiconductor we might find the answer. Ha ha
The rest of the story about the ring is I found one the other day that is is in the shape of a closed U so you can adjust it to fit. It is manufactured that way and I had no problems detecting the ring which is what made me think about the cut gold ring and why it is not detected. I think the gold ring is close to where the minerals are rejected while the one I found the other day is not as it is a cheap copper ring with some kind of silver like metal over the copper. It is the low conductive gold chain and cut ring that are hard or that or not detected at all. Then there are chains made of gold that I have detected with no problems but are indicated as having a higher conductivity. It depends on the gold alloy, type of links, and ground minerals as far as I can tell. I will go back and look at this to see what happens and then try to give a better opinion based on closer observations.
I am unsure about salt as I don't think that is really much of a contribution to detecting the chain. I don't see how that can create the needed electrical bond between links and make any difference. I don't think it could support eddy currents between the links but as I said really don't know and have not looked into that. Wet salt seems to have more do with ground blance to pure ferrite and the offset of about 3 degree for real world conditions from what I have read. I don't recall the conductivity of salt as a factor other than that. I am sure I have read several explanation by engineers that indicate it is not but am trying to recall of the top of my head.
HH, Cody
The rest of the story about the ring is I found one the other day that is is in the shape of a closed U so you can adjust it to fit. It is manufactured that way and I had no problems detecting the ring which is what made me think about the cut gold ring and why it is not detected. I think the gold ring is close to where the minerals are rejected while the one I found the other day is not as it is a cheap copper ring with some kind of silver like metal over the copper. It is the low conductive gold chain and cut ring that are hard or that or not detected at all. Then there are chains made of gold that I have detected with no problems but are indicated as having a higher conductivity. It depends on the gold alloy, type of links, and ground minerals as far as I can tell. I will go back and look at this to see what happens and then try to give a better opinion based on closer observations.
I am unsure about salt as I don't think that is really much of a contribution to detecting the chain. I don't see how that can create the needed electrical bond between links and make any difference. I don't think it could support eddy currents between the links but as I said really don't know and have not looked into that. Wet salt seems to have more do with ground blance to pure ferrite and the offset of about 3 degree for real world conditions from what I have read. I don't recall the conductivity of salt as a factor other than that. I am sure I have read several explanation by engineers that indicate it is not but am trying to recall of the top of my head.
HH, Cody
A
Anonymous
Guest
David,
ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF WATER IN THE SOIL MATRIX
You are exactly right in that water (along with the soil minerals) will tend to aid in the detection of a chain. The problem is that when the bond between links is broken, then the conductivity around the loop is increased many many orders of magnitude. The ionization of the water in the ground may increase the conductivity a couple orders of magnitude. That still leaves several orders of magnitude of reduced conductivity.
YOU STATED
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">I haven't soldered the links of a gold chain together as yet, but I don't think I will as it would be unrealistic to expect this to be the case when searching for such items in the field. </span>
I think your decision is a wise one. My point about soldering the links together was only to prove to oneself that it is hard to make an intimate contact by simply pressing the ends of the gold ring together. One can be certain that a chain in the ground will almost never have all the links intimately connected together.
HH,
Glenn
ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF WATER IN THE SOIL MATRIX
You are exactly right in that water (along with the soil minerals) will tend to aid in the detection of a chain. The problem is that when the bond between links is broken, then the conductivity around the loop is increased many many orders of magnitude. The ionization of the water in the ground may increase the conductivity a couple orders of magnitude. That still leaves several orders of magnitude of reduced conductivity.
YOU STATED
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">I haven't soldered the links of a gold chain together as yet, but I don't think I will as it would be unrealistic to expect this to be the case when searching for such items in the field. </span>
I think your decision is a wise one. My point about soldering the links together was only to prove to oneself that it is hard to make an intimate contact by simply pressing the ends of the gold ring together. One can be certain that a chain in the ground will almost never have all the links intimately connected together.
HH,
Glenn
A
Anonymous
Guest
OMG...Thanks cody....I found a ring in my new apt. and it has letters in band and denotes to be white gold......but I laughed when it read nothing on explorer....I thought it was a fake ring for someones girlfriend...but it was cut and lost its eddys.........I put it together and it read on detector........lol......that is too funny.....Thanks man....I was about to throw it out...Wow....Keep up with your research and posts....you help more than you know....Later!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Great, it is interesting how our detectors respond to a cut gold ring or chain jewelry. I stumbled on that several years ago as I had rings that I had found with both the old TR and new VLF. I was using the learn function on another machine and tried to learn a cut gold ring that I had found years ago with a TR. I thought something was wrong with the detector and was amazed it would not detect the ring. A lady lost a piece of jewelry and asked if I could find it as she new the withing about a 30X30 yards where whe thought it was. I was wearing a gold chain on my wrist so put it on the ground to see where it would read. I could not believe I could not detetect the chain. She had a the other piece of the jewelry so I rejected everything but the one she still had and found the jewelry in only about 20 minutes. Those were the firt times I ran into this many years ago so really don't think much about it. It came to mind the other day with the cheap copper and clad ring that was cut and I detected it just fine. It crossed my mind at the time and that the primary difference I saw was the difference in the conductivity.
I have seen other posts about the difficulty detecting gold chain and have read a lot of explanations so take your pick on this one. It is a good thing people don't cut a real expensive ring to make it fit. <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
HH, Cody
I have seen other posts about the difficulty detecting gold chain and have read a lot of explanations so take your pick on this one. It is a good thing people don't cut a real expensive ring to make it fit. <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
HH, Cody
A
Anonymous
Guest
Oh no that reminds me. I was going to look for a gold chain with diamonds that was lost in a lake by a guy. A guy from work knows the approx. location and I was going to try to find it with my Excaliber. I don't know if it broke off or fell off without breaking. If it is not broke do you think it will show on detector? And if it is, will it show? That is not good. <img src="/metal/html/cry.gif" border=0 width=40 height=15 alt=":cry">
A
Anonymous
Guest
I don't believe there is any worry about most chain and in particualr the one with the diamons. It is fine gold chain and then only in some soil when it is hard to detect. I see gold chain jewelry posted all the time on the forums and I found a chain last summer. I don't recall the exact reading but that it was iffy and I was glad I recovered the target.
This is another one for Glenn as I think he detects the beaches all the time and I am sure he has found gold chain. I assume there are others on the forum that have also found gold chain. I think that was the idea behind Hardnosed's post about salt water and how if changes the way a gold chain looks to the detector.
HH, Cody
This is another one for Glenn as I think he detects the beaches all the time and I am sure he has found gold chain. I assume there are others on the forum that have also found gold chain. I think that was the idea behind Hardnosed's post about salt water and how if changes the way a gold chain looks to the detector.
HH, Cody