Compadre &. Eldorado uMAX Equivalent ED-180 Performers?

[berryman]

Both are true ED-180 machines. The Eldorado operates at 10.6khz while the Compadre operates at 12khz - pretty close. Would I be incorrect to assume that that the Eldorado should perform just as well as the Compadre when it comes to finding micro-jewelry - perhaps even better, because the Eldorado has the advantage of being able to be manually ground balanced? I know that coil size plays an important role, but I would think that there are coils for the Eldorado that would match the performance of those used on the Compadre.

My real question is this - if I already have an Eldorado, what would I gain by also purchasing the Compadre?

 

[REVIER]

Both are true ED-180 machines. The Eldorado operates at 10.6khz while the Compadre operates at 12khz - pretty close. Would I be incorrect to assume that that the Eldorado should perform just as well as the Compadre when it comes to finding micro-jewelry - perhaps even better, because the Eldorado has the advantage of being able to be manually ground balanced? I know that coil size plays an important role, but I would think that there are coils for the Eldorado that would match the performance of those used on the Compadre.

My real question is this - if I already have an Eldorado, what would I gain by also purchasing the Compadre?

What would you have to gain?
Maybe a lot more jewelry.

Ok, I don't have any experience with an Eldorado, but I do with its more modern cousin, the Vaquero.
I also have several hunts under my belt with a new 5.75" concentric sniper coil for that Vaq.
I haven't found any micro jewelry with it yet, or any really small and thin chains but I have found some other pretty tiny pieces of metal and that coil is impressive.
Be that as it may, I believe the Compadre has still got to be considered one of the most sensitive jewelry finding units on the market today or for all time before this, for that matter.
I say this for several reasons.

First reason has to do with experience swinging that Compadre.
Nothing I have ever used, read about or seen on any videos seems to be able to pick up targets so tiny and chains that are super thin and small and do it so easily.
I have used that Compadre at sites that I hunted many times with my Vaq and even my F2 and several coils and still the first time through with the Compadre it found me tiny items and chains that I and others had missed.
The second reason is the Compadre can find targets right next to or even leaning on large iron objects easily like fence posts, bench legs and tot lot structures that others...all others, just can't.
I can say my jaw has dropped several times on hunts with the Compadre because of what I have seen it do...and it is still doing that.

Third reason is I suspect like the Vaq that Eldo is not truly 180 ED but more like the Vaq which in real life is actually closer to 165 ED.
That little more compression might not not matter much, but in the area of iron where really small stuff comes in it could.

Fourth reason is the old world circuitry the Compadre uses that I know is different than my Vaq and probably the Eldorado.
Again on most targets the difference might not matter at all, but on a few it well might.

If you really want a shot at finding all the Compadre can find with that Eldorado you had better put a sniper coil on that thing because that will up the sensitivity by a good margin.

I love my Vaq and my new sniper and I hunt a bunch with an F2 and sniper coil which is a very sensitive unit in its own right, but I really believe in my heart of hearts as good as the others I mentioned might be at finding small items and especially most smaller jewelry targets the Compadre is still a bit better and I am glad I own one along with that Vaq.
I bought mine for about $130 used from Skiwhiz about 2 years ago and it has found me close to $2000 worth of clad and jewelry since.
He keeps asking for a cut, but I hear the temps in Hades are still pretty much on the high side so his answer is still no.

As far as that kHz stuff I am sure that in some instances and on some targets that might matter a bit, but for the most part I don't really worry or stress about that for even an instant.
I have found a ton of silver targets with my high kHz Tesoros, and a large amount of gold targets with my 5.9kHz F2 so regarding the way I hunt, the sites I hunt and the type of targets I aim for the operating frequency just doesn't come into play at all.

Again I don't know for sure exactly what the circuitry is like on that older Eldorado or if indeed it is actually a true 180 ED unit so I might be talking trash here, but I really don't think so.

A lot of this was also discussed in this similar thread about a Vaq and the Compadre where I stated pretty much the same reasons I think this way.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?17,1964452

 

[BarberBill]

I agree with Revier's frequency statement in that I don't think the 12khz vesus 10khz makes enough difference to worry about. As to the Eldorado having true 180 ED I've always read/heard that it does. Including having read that statement mentioned by Monte, if memory serves. Revier's sniper coil statement prompts me to put either the 5.75 or the 4" on my Eldorado and experiment a bit when I get time. If I discover any thing worth mentioning, I'll post the results.
BB

 

[REVIER]

I agree with Revier's frequency statement in that I don't think the 12khz vesus 10khz makes enough difference to worry about. As to the Eldorado having true 180 ED I've always read/heard that it does. Including having read that statement mentioned by Monte, if memory serves. Revier's sniper coil statement prompts me to put either the 5.75 or the 4" on my Eldorado and experiment a bit when I get time. If I discover any thing worth mentioning, I'll post the results.
BB

So the Eldo is true 180 ED...good to know.
I found this old discussion on another forum where Tabdog mentions that the Eldorado is 180 ED, but further down he also posts this quote from Monte who seems to say the Eldorado has another type of disc so I am confused a bit now.


A guy named Monte describes the ED rating given
by Tesoro. He said on a forum that I could quote him.
He is much more knowledgeable about detectin than
I.

Why is the ED-180 better than the ED-120 disc.?

"R-n-R", The Toltec II and Golden Sabre II use the ED-120 discriminate circuit. The Bandido II MM, Silver Sabre MM, SHADOWx2, and basically most of the last generation of Tesoros (Pantera, Silver Sabre II, Sidewinder & Sidewinder MM, Bandido, Bandido II and Bandido MM, etc.) have employed the discriminate circuit referred to as the ED-120.

The Amigo II and a few other models utilize what is referred to as the ED-180.

In simple terms, the "120" or "180" descriptions are in reference to the degree of coverage of the discriminate range. Earlier models, such as the Inca, Eldorado, Toltec-100 and such had what could be described as "D-90", or an acceptance range of about 90 degrees. This allowed the detector to accept targets from silver dollars and such on down to lessor conductive targets in a low-foil category. Certainly the minimum rejection level was well above nail rejection.

Users of these earlier silent-search models were able to "comfortably" search many sites without hearing a lot of trash target signals. Unfortunately, in the very worst conditions, such as nail-strewn town sites or some renovation sites, there was too much rejection even at the minimum setting. Thus masking would occur more easily. Additionally, in the worst ground mineral conditions the discriminate circuit didn't work as well at dealing with the ground mineral signal and passing along the desirable target signals.

With the advent of the ED-120 discrimination circuit, Tesoro made a major advancement in functional discriminate range as the "Expanded Discriminate" (thus ED) range went **lower** in the acceptable range and this allowed models designed with that circuitry to just barely kick out most nails at the "minimum" setting and this gave them better "see through" (a bad term, but well used) in the really trashy sites, especially those with nails and other small iron junk.

The ED-120 circuitry is by far some of the best for the average hunter, and even the advanced detectorist, depending upon what their intended application is.

ED-180 simply refers to a discriminate circuit which has an Expanded range even LOWER than the ED-120, not higher. The LOWER range of adjustment gets the unit down into the ALL METAL acceptance range. Many of the competitors models allow such a low-end of adjustment, such as the White's XLT, 5900/6000's, Classic series, Garrett GTA's and Scorpions, and most certainly the Fisher "X" and CZ series.

For a serious relic hunter or a very serious detectorist who wants to have the added performance of an All Metal motion discriminate mode of operation, these are good units. For relic hunting and other searches where ALL targets are desired, then a broad-range, with a lower-end acceptance (ED-180) discriminate circuit is desirable.

However, most hobbyists are NOT interested in locating all metal targets in an area. Most are recreationalists, serious or casual, who are not that interested in having a primary search mode that will accept all metal targets, preferring to reject annoying nails and some other small, low-conductive targets. Thus, the ED-120 is the most used discriminate circuit concept that is employed by the Tesoro folks. It works well.

In some really bad ground the ED-180 will give you some much improved performance, but in "typical" ground and detecting situations the famous ED-120 should do.

Now, I hope this rambling wasn't too confusing. As for which is the "Better" of the two, I would have to say that I would be content with the ED-120 under most conditions. I do, however, employ the option of going to a lower range (ED-180) when I get into some very mineralized areas where there are NOT a lot of detectable targets and I prefer to get the best depth/performance.

As far as putting on a small coil and getting more sensitivity to smaller objects, from what I can tell by switching coils around on 2 of my units this is true.
Maybe the same power coming through that smaller coil might have something to do with it but I don't know.

What I did experience one time was my Compadre and the 7" coil beeped lod and clear and in some tot lot chips I dug up a single bead from a chain the size that they put on nail clippers.
Even my Propointer had trouble seeing or locking on to this thing while it was in my hand.
I suspect this might have something to do with the Compadre's unique circuitry.
I am not sure how many other detectors would be able to do this no matter what coil they are using.

 

[slingshot]

Let's face it. It all has to do with what a person will put up with and the location the person is in. I sometimes refer to my other detectors as "scout" detectors. The worthwhile coin-sized rings and other valuables WILL be picked up by most detectors and I just don't wanna listen to all those "tics" and such made by slaw trash and the like. And I sure don't want to find 100 tabs in certain areas. Now if my "scout" detectors pick a goodly amount of valuables, in comes the Compadre. I found 4 gold rings at one school doing this. The Silver umax is a fine "scout" detector with the 120 ED, which gives the closest to both worlds.

 

[BarberBill]

The other evening I picked up a couple of metal pieces the size of a very small sequin in a tot lot with the Silver Sabre