'Combined tones' problem?

[swingman]

I'm a 'sound first' detectorist, and looking at a screen is secondary. I have a lot of experience with the older Sovereign and Explorer SE, but none with the e-Trac. I'm used to being 'fooled' by occasional iron masquerading as a deep coin, but this is too much.
After ~ 12 hours detecting in Combined tones (3 different hunted-out sites, different moisture contents) - both in Hi Trash and Ferrous/Coin modes, here's the problem: I have yet to hear the 'low grunt' for the hi-ferrous targets. And nulling is frequent. But in testing 'all tones' the grunt is there!
To make matters worse, I've dug MANY deep-iron targets (mostly large), that gave a repeatable hi-tone (sometimes from one direction only), with FE/Cond numbers jumpy but around 12/39, and a blue icon in the white area. [Coins program] No other targets but the iron in the hole, and out of the hole the iron gives a null only.
I try to push the Sens. at 30 as my 'ear' is used to doing this, but a bench/air test gave the same results with iron at Sens.15 - null, but no grunt. Any ideas...ways I can tell the iron before I dig? Think my machine is sick? // I did read a post about this...to ignore the hi-tones if they're from one direction only...but from past experience this pattern can be a coin with trash around it, and I just can't walk by it.
Thanks for your sharing/expertise/experience - years ago you guys 'saved' me - convincing me to hang in there with Minelab machines. Best detecting move I ever made, by far.

 

[etracjoe]

So far always iron 1 way only. I dug my first silver with CTX yesterday has iron and foil mixed in and the coin was repeatable both ways high tone. Try ground coin combined and see what it does for you. I run in auto +3 and have been able to hear what my buddy hears in manual. Try less discrimination.....sounds like you have it jacked up. That is why your not hearing the grunt. You will not miss a good target with the CTX with a open screen in combine. I hit silver dimes down 7- 8" like this with auto sens in hunted out parks.

 

[Larry (IL)]

If you press the detect button again while hunting you will go to pattern 2 which is pretty much an open pattern with very little discrimination. That is where you will hear the iron. If you are using a pattern like coins, it has most of the iron discriminated out (null).

 

[Gonehunting]

I'm a 'sound first' detectorist, and looking at a screen is secondary. I have a lot of experience with the older Sovereign and Explorer SE, but none with the e-Trac. I'm used to being 'fooled' by occasional iron masquerading as a deep coin, but this is too much.
After ~ 12 hours detecting in Combined tones (3 different hunted-out sites, different moisture contents) - both in Hi Trash and Ferrous/Coin modes, here's the problem: I have yet to hear the 'low grunt' for the hi-ferrous targets. And nulling is frequent. But in testing 'all tones' the grunt is there!

If your screen is wide open you should be hearing the grunt

To make matters worse, I've dug MANY deep-iron targets (mostly large), that gave a repeatable hi-tone (sometimes from one direction only), with FE/Cond numbers jumpy but around 12/39, and a blue icon in the white area. [Coins program] No other targets but the iron in the hole, and out of the hole the iron gives a null only.

If you do not get a 2 way signal 98% of the time it is trash.. The CTX is so much different than the E-Trac. Those iffys we all listened for on the Trac(that sometimes turned into hidden coins) aren' t on the CTX.. I have saw either you will hear it and it will be solid, or you won't hear it all(only visable on the screen)and the quiet tone(mentioned in manual while in ferrous/coin)
The CTX is so much more sensitive and more accurate than the E-Trac that once I started seeing that in the field, I began to realize that my hunting experience would have too start over....

I try to push the Sens. at 30 as my 'ear' is used to doing this

If your getting falsing on rusty iron and nails experience should tell you maxing the sensitivity is going to make that problem 100X worse on any machine... On the the other FBS machines it seems a heap different than the X cause I too hunted at 28-29 on the E-Trac to help squeeze out ever ounce of power, but tried that with CTX and it was way way too much. iffy targets seemed to "bloom" into good targets. Auto +2 and +3 has more than sufficient so far.. Good targets tones are solid even when they are in the 10 to 11inch range. I have saw if I was in a spot that didn't have a lot of coins and the only tones I was getting were the iffy's I would try make a good tone to dig them and get trash every time VS a spot that has a lot of coins and I hear the good repeatable tones over and over I tend to dig A LOT less trash... Relying on past experience with other machines, in this aspect (iffy's), seems to be of no help..

, but a bench/air test gave the same results with iron at Sens.15 - null, but no grunt. IAny ideas...ways I can tell the iron before I dig? Think my machine is sick? // I did read a post about this...to ignore the hi-tones if they're from one direction only...but from past experience this pattern can be a coin with trash around it

I think this is the most definite difference in the CTX and the other FBS/BBS machines

, and I just can't walk by it.

I know the feeling.. Spent my first Saturday on the machine documenting those iffy's that we loved and out of the 32 instances 0 were good tones.. I took every rusty nail(which seemed to be the culprit 90% of the time) out of the hole where there was nothing left. Most of the time I would rescan several times.. and would discover the one nail that when removed the high tone would disappear.. it was usually a large rusty nail, a smaller nail with an oversized head, or a bent nail... So when I get a good tone that is only good from one side, if I change angle's and it still is not a 2 way tone i move on./ or when I wiggle back to pin point, I will also hit the pinpoint button to check to see if the target is in a different spot then I will leave it alone.. bad thing is I still don't trust the machine sometimes, AND EVERYTIME I do that, IT was trash and I get mad for not listening to what the machine telling me and that it was trash and I dig anyway...

Thanks for your sharing/expertise/experience - years ago you guys 'saved' me - convincing me to hang in there with Minelab machines. Best detecting move I ever made, by far.

Hope this helps.. Gonehunting

 

[firefighter254]

I agree 100% with Gonehunting i to needed to trust the machine we all do if the ctx says it's trash then it's trash if it doesn't repeat both ways its more then likely trash i spent my fair share digging iffy signals and wasting time not no more if i dont get a repeatable signal i move on

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ctx 3030
Etrac
m6
propointer
Ulster county ny

 

[Benedict76]

so am i right assuming that all the iffy one way signal that turned out to be a coin with the e-trac are two way solid signal with the ctx ??????

 

[Gonehunting]

so am i right assuming that all the iffy one way signal that turned out to be a coin with the e-trac are two way solid signal with the ctx ??????

If the iffy on the E-Trac turned out to be a coin.. I have yet dug an iffy one way signal on the CTX that was a coin.. And I have dug a lot of iffy's and 2 ways(solid) signals.... but this is just my observation.. I use combined ferrous coin so a different Target Separations may be different, but I think the CTX is that much more precise...

 

[swingman]

Thanks for your replies. I wasn't clear, perhaps - I got a repeatable signal with iron, swinging from left to right, AND back right to left. (Dug 6 rusted irons in a row like that!) What I meant by 'one direction', was - I get a signal when approaching from, say, the northeast, but NOT from any other direction. With my Explorer SE (have no e-Trac) the latter has produced coins in the past, usually surrounded by trash.
Thanks for the tip re. having an open screen. Next time I'll try Pattern 2 when I get a hit. (I thought 'combined' worked even when discriminating - I don't think the manual was clear.) I like grunts better than nulls - harder for good stuff to hide.
Last night reverted to the '4 COND' sounds - dug no iron, and got a deep Wheatie, so I'm happy with the CTX's depth. I think it's an absolute winner. Now all we need is rain.