Coins On Edge

[Critterhunter]

Today I got out for about an hour and a half at a spot we had gridded with our Whites a few years back. I ended up digging two quarters that were on edge about 6" deep. One of them was a state quarter so that tells me the silver is probably real deep here and should be worth working some more. I've dug silver on edge with the Sovereign in the past but it's been a while since then, so I wanted to relate the characteristics of coins on edge while it was fresh in my mind.

One silver dime I dug on edge back a couple years ago acted like this...It would give a perfect coin signal from one direction, but from the other direction it took a lot of effort and constant wiggling of the coil to make it slowly climb until it hit 180.

Today the quarters would also give a good coin signal from one direction but from the other direction they didn't do the slow climb to 180 but rather could only manage lower numbers, and never locked onto a number but kept moving. That's the key to tell it's not junk, as junk will tend to finally rest on a VDI number.

Also, the tone was very telling, and matched the silver dime from a few years ago. The audio will do a constant high/low/high/low pitch, going from a coin tone to something lower, as you continue to sweep over it. I knew it was going to be a coin on edge. It's a very distinct sound, and the VDI or the sound doesn't act like a false hit from iron at all. It's unique, and you won't forget it once you've heard it and dug a coin on edge. The audio also differs from the "warble" sound that screw caps will give you. As many know, screw caps will tend to have a good coin ID from one direction but a warbly audio and iffy VDI that bounces around in say the 178 to 180 number range from another direction.

If you haven't dug any coins on edge yet I'd suggest sticking a coin in the ground on edge a good bit and then sweep at it from various directions. If it's giving a perfect ID from any direction then put it more on edge. You'll soon learn this distinctive sound and VDI response that it gives from one way, while perfect from the other way. One of the coins on edge today was straight up and down on edge, and would only give the up/down audio and lower VDI from any direction, without any good coin signal from any way I swept. As said, it's very distinctive and very different from a false iron hit, or from the warbly sound that screw caps can make.

If feel the Sovereign even with the stock coil is better than many other machines I've owned at hitting coins on edge, but I also feel the SEF coil is even better at it. I've read theories that larger coils have a more slanted horizontal detection field than smaller coils and so more of a chance of hitting the side of a coin on edge and giving a better response. I remember reading this theory about the WOT coils years ago.

 

[Critterhunter]

One silver dime I dug on edge back a couple years ago acted like this...It would give a perfect coin signal from one direction, but from the other direction it took a lot of effort and constant wiggling of the coil to make it slowly climb until it hit 180.
.

And when it did finally reach 180 it would collapse like a house of cards in VDI and then do the slow climb to it again, over and over. It's a very unique pattern unlike trash or a false iron it. Far less random in it's climb that those can be.

And when from the bad direction on coins the VDI won't lock onto one number, it will keep moving around in the mid VDI range or so as the audio does the high/low thing over and over.

 

[elki1052]

Critter, today I got one Dime doing just that, it wasn't dip only 5" but it was vertical to the ground and the tone was little ifi and the numbers all over, when I pinpointed I miss it by 3" because I dig just beside it then with the probe pointing it to the side I got the full tone and numbers, I was just about to give up but it end up in my pouch.
thank you ALL for every info that you provide for all of us. I do appreciate it!

 

[Rick(ND)]

Yes that is the classic coin at a angle or on edge as it will not be where you pinpoint it and can be off as much as 4 inches to one side of the hole you dug. That is why I love my Sun Ray S-1 probe as I will find them and not leave them for others or dig big holes trying to find them.

 

[Ism]

The angle also affects which side of the coil it will be on. I believe left angle, right side and visa versa.
Not that it helps find the coin, but the physical properties are interresting.

 

[Critterhunter]

All I know is that once you hear the up/down or high/low tone over and over as you wiggle over the coin you'll never forget that sound. It's unique and completely different from a false coin hit from iron or from a screw cap or even most trash. Screw caps will usually give a good coin ID one way, but will make a "warbly" sound and the ID goes like 177 to 180 or so back and fourth from the other direction.

Like I said, some of these on edge coins will give a perfect ID from one direction, while from the other directions doing the up/down audio thing (or coin/mid tone sound) over and over and the ID never makes it out of the mid range and won't lock onto one number while it does it. Then there are others that will only do the up/down thing from any direction (probably straight on edge). And then there are the ones where from the good direction they take time to climb to 180, but it's very organized and less random than a false hit from iron or other trash. The audio is key. You can hear the good coin tone/low over and over, and it never really changed to something else like iron or other trash will here and there. That's the best way to describe it. You'll never forget the sound especially, but the VDI also has some unique traits to it.

I dug a silver ring about a year ago that gave this same kind of tone. First day out with the 12x10 as a matter of fact in a small spot I had hit hard with my Explorers and other machines. It was about (from memory) 4 to 6" deep and standing directly on edge at the side of the plug. I actually reached down and plucked it out of the dirt from the side of the hole. With it's depth it had been there a while and looked like an old ring, yet I missed it with all my other machines. I think the Sovereign is real good at finding coins on edge, and I think the SEF makes it even better at it.

If you didn't know this unique sound you'd probably pass a target as junk that won't lock on, but this sound is VERY different than any junk I've heard. I get excited when I hear it now, as it might be an old coin that is even shallow but other machines have missed for years.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here's a pic of what I mean about the theory of larger coils hitting coins on edge better than smaller ones. I remember reading about this theory concerning the WOT coil years ago when guys noticed they were popping more coins on edge. The eddy currents of a larger coil are supposed to be more horizontal and at less of an angle than those of a smaller coil, so they hit the side of a coin on edge better.

Keep this in mind when using an a 12x10 or 15x12 at a site where you think that any shallower coin hits must be clad. They could very well be old coins that other coils or machines missed, but are hitting well enough on the SEF that they are giving even perfect coin signals.

 

[elki1052]

Ecxellent information, from now on I will paid more attention to those tones that I'm lerning now.

 

[Tin Fin]

What that mean Ism? If I'm understanding you, your sweep will be left to right, and the coin on edge has one side more exposed to the horizontal surface you are sweeping and the edge is facing you? Am I correct in my understanding or no?

Reason I ask, is that today I had a signal that acted very much like what is being described - solid hit from one direction, but I was using the front edge of the coil. When I turned 90 degrees, I could get the same signal, in a bit different area by a few inches. Had nothing or only iffy signals from the other side though; number climbed sometimes, not others. Then over the target, and a solid signal.

I dug down about five or six inches, without finding the target (yet). I will go back on Saturday though. My vibra-probe did not pick up a signal in any area of the hole. This sounded like a solid silver dime, or quarter, and it's loud - I expected something to be within a few inches - I widened the hole some, but not a lot. This is near an old tree stump that has been chipped. It sounded too good to pass on, and I didn't want to leave it alone, but pop was wanting to leave. I know the vibra probe only goes a couple inches deep at best. But, if what you are saying is what I'm thinking, then my hole could be off by several inches yet.

 

[Ism]

Critter, I've found it to be off by 3-4 inches on one side of the coil. If you rotate 180 degrees it will be off the other way. But thats if you swing directly across the target lean. In the field its hard to determine what way the target is leaning. You can reproduce it in the lab and it will give you an idea how far off it can be. I think coil size makes a difference also. My PI detector with a mono coil does the same thing so its not just a property of DD coils I thought All-metal would pinpoint the target but it was off center also. Going around the target helps to pinpoint but that would be impossible next to a tree. Its the coins on an angle that i tend to gouge with the lesche as I am cutting my plug. Fortunatly they have never been a rare coin but its only a matter of time.

 

[Critterhunter]

Yes, I've found that too...That often my pinpoint on a coin on edge will be maybe 4" or so in front of the coin. Just dig a wider plug when you expect the target is on edge.

 

[Critterhunter]

Thought I'd revive this thread because I wanted to share another coin on edge story and some tips on how to recognize the sound of them. There are two different sounds coins on edge will produce, and neither of them sounds like any type of trash I've ever heard. Well, that might be a tiny bit of an overstatement, but let's just say when you heard one of these two sounds as you wiggle over a target to see what it is it will stop you dead in your tracks, because at least almost no trash usually makes this very distinct two types of sounds an on edge coin can make.

Once you hear either one of these sounds as you wiggle over a target, and end up digging a nice silver on edge, you'll never forget that sound again. Sure, you might "forget" what the sound is like (I did from last time until I heard it again today), but when you do come across the sound again, even if you can't remember it in your mind, you'll instantly remember when you hear it again and say "I know what that is going to be!" Exactly what happened to me today. Whenever I hear one of these two sounds I get real excited about what I might be digging here, even if they are shallow sounding, because I've pulled many silvers with the Sovereign on edge that were not even deep at all, and yet had been missed by other machines or coils.

The stock 10" Tornado is a great coil at finding coins on edge. I never dug as many coins on edge until I got my GT. Then I got the 12x10 and it seemed to be even better at finding those on edge coin targets. Well, today, I was using the Ultimate, and it appears this coil also does very well on coins standing on end too. By the looks (or should I say sounds) of it the Ultimate is an equal to the 12x10 nailing on edge coins I think, at least if this first one is any indication of how well it will do on others.

So anyway, first the story...I was hunting around a large tree I've pounded many years around with many machines and many coils to see if they can pull more out of that spot, and yet I haven't used the 12x10 around this tree much yet (maybe 5 minutes in the past), so I can't judge to say if the 12x10 would have got that coin or not. I can at least say the 12x10 probably never was swung over that coin, because I don't remember working that side of the tree with it yet, but just the same I've gridded in circles around this tree many times over many years with many machines and coils, and even a few machines I won't name that are well known as being old coin killers. I keep planning to use the GT at this spot more but hardly have, because this decent sized mowed field is my favorite spot for many reasons I won't go into at this time.

But anyway, so I'm working around this tree with the Ultimate. This site isn't very trashy in most spots, but it has it's moments, and I have dug some deep coins from this place in the past, so I really must work it with my GT more to see how it does here. And so instantly I hear one of the two unique sounds I referenced earlier of coins on edge. This one I'll try to describe that is unique among trash is a "low"/"high" back and fourth kind of whine. You might only hear the high or the low part of the "mirror" image sound with one accidental long sweep as you are just hunting along, but even that initial one half of this unqiue "whine" is so unique it'll stop you right in your tracks.

So then I wiggle over it and sure enough I hear the low/high/low/high/low/high type of "whine" that I had forgotten in my head since the last time I dug an on edge coin, but instantly I *knew* what that very distinct sound meant. So then I wiggle my way all the way around it, and I'm hearing still the low/high/low/high type of audio. Great! I'm sure of it now, but just the same I like to work all the way around it as I wiggle and see if I can find that one perfect angle in relation to how the coin is standing on edge where it goes all "coin" on me and will keep it there. Usually an on edge coin will give you that one sweet spot angle where it's going to say coin all day long, while all the other angles go back to the low/high/low/high thing. Even if you don't find that sweet spot where it is all "coin" in both high tone and a 180 on the meter, because they won't always do this for you probably due to the angle they are laying, by now since you've rotated all the way around it and heard that unique audio trait, you're going to be committed to digging that bugger no matter what. But the sweet spot where it goes "180" and gives a steady high tone...Well, that's just extra motivation that for sure you know what this is going to be.

So I dig down, about 5", and I'm careful about it because I wanted to see how this coin was standing on end, since I knew it was, and I also wanted to be careful because this might be a silver I don't want to scratch. Well, I'd like to say it was silver, but it was only a wheat. Now, when I say "only a wheat", that doesn't mean I still wasn't extremely happy with the find. That coin had been missed, at relatively shallow depths and with no trash around it, by many machines I've owned over the years, many coils, and a few units with a reputation as being absolute silver and old coin killers. Yet there it was, that wheat, and the GT (and the Ultimate this time, but I bet the 12x10 would have hit it too), nailed a wheat that has eluded me for countless years and countless machines.

So am I impressed with the GT? You bet, once again. And am I impressed with the Ultimate? You bet, just like I am the 12x10 at finding coins on edge too, and I'll even tip my hat to the 10" Tornado for those types of coins too, because it's very good at it as well, just that I feel at least the 12x10 and probably now the Ultimate are a bit better at hitting those coils. That's not a real shocker, because there is an old theory that bigger coils than stock tend to hit coins on edge easier due to the eddy currents bending in less of a steep angle in the field generated. I've heard that long ago about the WOT coil, and so it appears the 12x10 and 13" Ultimate are along the same lines to prove that theory out, being bigger than the stock 10" coil.

In closing, just want to cover the other unique sound coins on edge can generate. Not really sure why some do the above described sound and others do this one, but regardless they are both uniquely distinct from 99.9% of all trash I've ever come across and will stop you in your tracks when you hear either one of them. Actually this second type is in a way the "same" as the one I just described above in many ways, it's just that the sound is different a bit.

The one above, and this is going to sound corny but oh well, mimics what you'd hear if you said "Oh No" but kind of whined the words out. That's the best way I can describe it. The "Oh" is the low sound, and the high is the "No" sound. It'll keep saying that over and over as you wiggle. I'm not really sufre the "No" part is as high as a coin tone. I don't think it is, maybe it only goes as high as a tab range sound, but just the same it makes no matter because you *will* know it when you hear it again.

The second type of audio some coins on edge will give is this...Best way to describe it is like a pinball machine sounding off when the ball is stuck between two bumpers and is "binging" fastly back and fourth between the two super fast. This one I'm sure gives a high coin tone. It'll go "high/low/high/low", but rather than a "whine" it's more of a "bang/bing/bang/bing" type of sound, like a pinball bounces fast between two bumpers and racking up fast points. Again, you'll not forget this sound either. You may think you have but soon as you come acrossed it again you'll remember it.

The first one above I think more so...Can kind'a mimic the "warble" a screw cap can make at certain angles sweeping over a screw cap, but it's still different then it and distinct.

So how do you hear these for the first time so you know what you are looking for? Try sticking a coin on edge at various angles sticking out of the top of the ground and sweep over it all the way around it to see if it gives either one of these distinct sounds above. If it doesn't, try raising the coil more, because you might be mobbing it during an air test and it's just staying a good solid coin hit.

I'll tell you what, I was sorely missing my pocket camcorder today on that small hunt, because I was thinking as soon as I heard that coin on edge that I would have loved to recorded it so you guys could hear what the audio was doing. I'm going to try to stage both these sounds with coins on edge so I can do a video on them and you guys will be able to hear what you are looking for. Need to hook up an ear bud toa splitter so I can tape that right over the mic on me camera so you can hear better audio, because I'm not sure how well the lousy external speaker of the Sovereign will translate it for you. I'll see what I can do.

Hope this helps somebody. Even if you are using the stock coil, don't think you don't have great ability to hit coins on edge, because the Sovereign is great at it and so is the stock 10" Tornado. Did it better for me than any prior machine I've owned. You want to learn these two unique audio sounds of coins on edge, because once learned it *will* amaze you what others have missed with other machines at "dead" sites in that aspect alone...