Not finding anything at San Simeon beach today, I tried a coin test in black sand I was seeing. Didn't like the results at all! Tried a dime and a quarter on edge and it only detects each reliably if the coin is vertical orientation to the sweep. If you then sweep each after moving around 90 degrees the detection is good. I then moved to an area with much less black sand and the results are the same! Wonder what the CTX does...
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Coins on edge - not good
- Thread starter bklein
- Start date
RayinAlaska
New member
Most detectors will do the same and a reason why one should check an iffy signal one os not certain of in a cross pattern like you see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=q1YM5ZTHAYo
Or here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NNFVdQdF4
My 800 does fine on coins on edge, but it has the new software update and I have no idea if that makes a difference. I updated it as soon as I got it out of the box a couple of weeks ago, so i don't know if the old software had the problem you mention.
Anyway, I used a TeKnetics detector years ago and was very aware of the problem with coins on edge as well as thin rings on edge. But once I gained experience with this and later other detectors, including a Sovereign, every iffy signal I explored further, first by trying a cross pattern.
A similar thing happens when you have a coin in the middle and a piece of iron (nail and such) at each side of the coin. In this case when the coil travels over the target parallel to the nails (in the direction the nails point to), the coin won't be detected. However, if the coil travels across the nails, then the 800 will pick the coin. The signal will be iffy, of course, but not bad enough to ignore. No too many detectors will do that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=q1YM5ZTHAYo
Or here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NNFVdQdF4
My 800 does fine on coins on edge, but it has the new software update and I have no idea if that makes a difference. I updated it as soon as I got it out of the box a couple of weeks ago, so i don't know if the old software had the problem you mention.
Anyway, I used a TeKnetics detector years ago and was very aware of the problem with coins on edge as well as thin rings on edge. But once I gained experience with this and later other detectors, including a Sovereign, every iffy signal I explored further, first by trying a cross pattern.
A similar thing happens when you have a coin in the middle and a piece of iron (nail and such) at each side of the coin. In this case when the coil travels over the target parallel to the nails (in the direction the nails point to), the coin won't be detected. However, if the coil travels across the nails, then the 800 will pick the coin. The signal will be iffy, of course, but not bad enough to ignore. No too many detectors will do that.
Trailduster
Active member
Agreed.
My first detectors were Fishers. An F2 then and F70.
The F70 and Nox 600 are similar in many ways including but not limited to reaction to targets. Really, the only difference for me has been depth VDI but the tones are pretty close. I've had my F70 listed for a while but after a couple hundred hours on my Nox I'm thinking of keeping the F70 and i'll explain my reasoning next.
Not seeing coins on edge with the first swipe isn't a knock on the Nox and it's not uncommon amongst many detectors. I think, maybe, a lot of the posts we see are from people who's first detector is the Nox and expected it to outshine other detectors in it's price rage by a mile. Whereas instead, it is a tweener. The Nox does some things better than the F70/F75, AT Pro for example and also does some things better than the CTX, Deus that are in the slightly higher price bracket, but by no means replaces any of those machines rather it supplements their inefficiencies if you are a detectorist who has a toolbox of detectors and seriously wants to clean out spots.
In the end, it comes down to which machine suits your detecting style and knowledge.
For me. The update made my Nox 600 worse. I've found some coins on edge using the X technique and the older 1.5 program that I learned with my Fishers. The update made my 600 unstable and wasn't worth it if my only gain was finding "on edge" coins especially if it was making me less confident about all other targets and screwing with the tones and VDI of coins that were only 4" deep. The original 1.5 program on my 600 was banging coins at 9" loud and proud. So I went back to 1.5 and am happy with the trade-off.
My first detectors were Fishers. An F2 then and F70.
The F70 and Nox 600 are similar in many ways including but not limited to reaction to targets. Really, the only difference for me has been depth VDI but the tones are pretty close. I've had my F70 listed for a while but after a couple hundred hours on my Nox I'm thinking of keeping the F70 and i'll explain my reasoning next.
Not seeing coins on edge with the first swipe isn't a knock on the Nox and it's not uncommon amongst many detectors. I think, maybe, a lot of the posts we see are from people who's first detector is the Nox and expected it to outshine other detectors in it's price rage by a mile. Whereas instead, it is a tweener. The Nox does some things better than the F70/F75, AT Pro for example and also does some things better than the CTX, Deus that are in the slightly higher price bracket, but by no means replaces any of those machines rather it supplements their inefficiencies if you are a detectorist who has a toolbox of detectors and seriously wants to clean out spots.
In the end, it comes down to which machine suits your detecting style and knowledge.
For me. The update made my Nox 600 worse. I've found some coins on edge using the X technique and the older 1.5 program that I learned with my Fishers. The update made my 600 unstable and wasn't worth it if my only gain was finding "on edge" coins especially if it was making me less confident about all other targets and screwing with the tones and VDI of coins that were only 4" deep. The original 1.5 program on my 600 was banging coins at 9" loud and proud. So I went back to 1.5 and am happy with the trade-off.
IDXMonster
Well-known member
The “off centering” of the coil for a better response may work in very specific and junk free situations but most of what’s left around here are the difficult targets within garbage and close/in with other metallic items. Interesting tool to use...in theory.
RayinAlaska
New member
laplander said:Thanks Ray, pretty much sums it up. The update improved the edge thing in my test garden but still a tougher target one way verses the other. jmo
You ought to watch a competition hunt with halves on edge, drives people batty
Jeff
He, he!-------------
Good points, midalake . In reality a coin on edge is a rarity when the coin has been in the ground for a long time. I started detecting with a TekNetics back in the late '70s, and have never found a coin on edge. Back then I used a homemade brass probe with a rounded tip (like a screwdriver), to insert in the ground to touch the coin I had just pinpointed with the detector. These probes are still used by some old timers.
Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZBujs6Dk4
dewcon4414
Well-known member
I’m not looking for coins ....as long as it gets the gold better than the Xcal and CTX guys lol. I use the old programs and for me I’m not having any issues with anything. As long as I water hunt I’m good.
Search for my YouTube videos - I just put 3 up, barryklein should be the channel. I'm on vacation and just have my phone. Coins on ground have good ID one orientation bad the other (both on edge). Air test of coins over ~3" from coil just miss them entirely unless I switch to flat orientation. I thought the new firmware was to fix this!
RayinAlaska
New member
dewcon4414 said:
I have had the Equinox 800 for two weeks now, and have detected with it two times at a local fresh water beach. I am just learning how to use it, but today it was hitting very deep targets on the factory settings of Park 1 mode. I figured that if I hear a faint signal that sounds, for a lack of better terms, like a squeak and the ID number jumps toward the '20s, I dig that target. I pulled out several very rusty pennies from the 1980's, a nickel, and a few dimes. I used a small shovel to dig deep holes in the sand. The signal I am referring to is not a repeatable one, but somehow the detector responds to the target. I also dug several quarters that were near the surface, a ladies' heavy silver ring with a colorful blue stone in the center, and a very small heart-shaped pendant that has a few "maybe" crystals in the middle. But I don't think it's made of silver. I just don't worry about the coin on edge thing while learning how to use it, and so far I am impressed since it can hit tiny little pieces of metal near the surface, and coins down deep. By the way, on the way out of these while still swinging the detector, I saw a gold chain right on top of the sand. Didn't need the detector for that one
My reasons for buying the Equinox 800 is so I don't have to take two detectors with me when going to places where I plan to detect for both gold nuggets and coins. I have A Sovereigns that I use for coin shooting, and also a gold detector.
I didn't get a chance to try gold rings on edge to see if they vanish or the ID changes - so I wouldn't be so complacent just yet. And after probably 80-100 hrs of use at different sites.... no gold for me.
I find it just as hard to believe as you, that's why I haven't yet sold it. I did today find a can at 20 inches and a nickel at probably 10" so I'm still thinking just bad sterile conditions. But does your Equinox miss coins on edge like my video shows? Are you good with it this way? I need to know if this is normal and return mine for repair if not. Another thing is that the beaches I'm hunting have a hellish multitude of foil content so 1's all over. I hunted a major park this afternoon and same deal - 1's all over from foil. I tried to just dig quarters but it was hard to pick them out. I didn't want to mess with masking as I didn't have much time. Not a lot of variation in amplitude to make good coin targets stand out. I don't have this problem with the CTX. I think because the foil doesn't ID in gold target ID's. One thing my video shows is shallow quarters in the worst orientation will sound off as 9's and 10's so you'll dig thinking gold but get a quarter instead
Another thing I'm noticing now since the update is pennies having higher IDs - like dime or quarter ID. Don't know what to believe now. Used to be just the corroded zincs were off from 20/21 but now clean targets are off ID.
I find it just as hard to believe as you, that's why I haven't yet sold it. I did today find a can at 20 inches and a nickel at probably 10" so I'm still thinking just bad sterile conditions. But does your Equinox miss coins on edge like my video shows? Are you good with it this way? I need to know if this is normal and return mine for repair if not. Another thing is that the beaches I'm hunting have a hellish multitude of foil content so 1's all over. I hunted a major park this afternoon and same deal - 1's all over from foil. I tried to just dig quarters but it was hard to pick them out. I didn't want to mess with masking as I didn't have much time. Not a lot of variation in amplitude to make good coin targets stand out. I don't have this problem with the CTX. I think because the foil doesn't ID in gold target ID's. One thing my video shows is shallow quarters in the worst orientation will sound off as 9's and 10's so you'll dig thinking gold but get a quarter instead
Another thing I'm noticing now since the update is pennies having higher IDs - like dime or quarter ID. Don't know what to believe now. Used to be just the corroded zincs were off from 20/21 but now clean targets are off ID.
dewcon4414
Well-known member
There are things i like about the old program for beach hunting..... thats why i use it. BUT, im not trying to dirt hunt with mine..... which appears to be the new programs advantage. I went back when i noticed in the wet sand there seemed to be a depth and sensitivity difference in beach 1..... also target digits changes ... like pull tabs, bottle caps and some coins sounded like junk. Wasnt a problem in the dry sand.... it acted normal. I did some air testing with gold ring...... old program worked fine i compared it to the Xcal and CTX..... angle of target can affect ANY machine once you add soil and salt.
RayinAlaska
New member
u2robert said:
The update somewhat solves the problems with coins on edge, but I agree with you that it is a non-issue with those who have detector-use experience.
RayinAlaska
New member
bklein said:I didn't get a chance to try gold rings on edge to see if they vanish or the ID changes - so I wouldn't be so complacent just yet. And after probably 80-100 hrs of use at different sites.... no gold for me.
I find it just as hard to believe as you, that's why I haven't yet sold it. I did today find a can at 20 inches and a nickel at probably 10" so I'm still thinking just bad sterile conditions. But does your Equinox miss coins on edge like my video shows? Are you good with it this way? I need to know if this is normal and return mine for repair if not. Another thing is that the beaches I'm hunting have a hellish multitude of foil content so 1's all over. I hunted a major park this afternoon and same deal - 1's all over from foil. I tried to just dig quarters but it was hard to pick them out. I didn't want to mess with masking as I didn't have much time. Not a lot of variation in amplitude to make good coin targets stand out. I don't have this problem with the CTX. I think because the foil doesn't ID in gold target ID's. One thing my video shows is shallow quarters in the worst orientation will sound off as 9's and 10's so you'll dig thinking gold but get a quarter instead
Another thing I'm noticing now since the update is pennies having higher IDs - like dime or quarter ID. Don't know what to believe now. Used to be just the corroded zincs were off from 20/21 but now clean targets are off ID.
When using a Teknetics detector years ago, and then a Minelab Sovereign in recent years, I have been aware that a coin on edge can possible be missed by any detector. For that reason I have always double-checked iffy and faint signals by swinging the coil over the target in a cross pattern (just on the iffy or faint signal). Also, is detecting in any place where I can remove a couple of inches of sand or dirt from the top of the target, I do that too, and then try to get a better signal.
I don't know enough about the Equinox to tell you how to adjust the Tones separation, but in my view somehow you have to gain experience by listening to the sounds first, and then using the ID numbers second. If you use both the ID and the sounds at once, it will take you longer to learn your detector. That was the case when I learned to use the first detector I ever use, the Teknetics I mentioned above. This detectors had a wide range of tones for different targets, just like the Equinox, but unlike the latter one could not change the Tones settings. But the different tones and the meter's pointer (a needle on the analog display) would move to the right on pull tabs, silver, dimes, quarters, large coins, and ever toy cars. Aluminum cans would just "squeal" like crazy
Nickels, lead, gold, and so on would turn the pointer to the left, and iron would drop the pointer all the way to the left with a very low tone. I don't know what you can do in places that that are littered with pieces of aluminum, lead, and the rest. But lets say that you are treasure hunting in a very old site: in this case I would go inch-by-inch and dig everything. If I was at a beach or playground where there is lots of trash, but a site where I know there could be some good targets, I would dig everything.
I will let others with more Equinox experience chime in, but will add a final note: at that park you are referring to, are you sure that the detector was on the factory settings for Park 1 or two, or Field 1 or 2? Are you sure that the detector was not on All Metals? When set on All Metals, the rainbow-shape discrimination scale will be all black from the lowest left bottom to the lowest right bottom (all the little squares will turn black on the screen) because nothing is being discriminated.
Yes it was set on discriminate - I often check targets for iron by going in and out of all metal.
When I got the Equinox I had read of the on edge problem with it. It was thought to be an issue - not something common to many detectors. I have like 7 or so others and didn't notice it. I also read of guys saying they only dig targets that sound good in sweeps both up/down and sideways. So maybe gold isn't an issue - I'll try targets when I get home. With the old firmware I had to do a reset twice to get out of some questionable behavior. Might have to try another reset?
Watch my video and let me know if yours is same or not please.
When I got the Equinox I had read of the on edge problem with it. It was thought to be an issue - not something common to many detectors. I have like 7 or so others and didn't notice it. I also read of guys saying they only dig targets that sound good in sweeps both up/down and sideways. So maybe gold isn't an issue - I'll try targets when I get home. With the old firmware I had to do a reset twice to get out of some questionable behavior. Might have to try another reset?
Watch my video and let me know if yours is same or not please.
RayinAlaska
New member
bklein said:
a. As I mentioned before, the coin on edge problem has been improved with the software update. Also, when I really want to dig deep in areas that have been pounded by other detectorists, I concentrate primarily on "iffy" signals by trying a cross pattern with the coil. Iffy signals can very well be within the range of a coin on edge. Remember to swing the coil fast enough, but not extremely fast over the target (read the instructions in the manual), and if you hear a slight high pitch tone that is sort of warbled, explore that target signal further (cross pattern, remove some of the top soil or sand, and keep on trying until you get a better signal).
a. I don't have much experience with the Equinox since I just got it a couple of weeks ago, and have only detected two times with it, and perhaps for 7 hours total, and already know that I will enjoy using this detector for coin/jewelry detecting, as well as gold nugget detecting in Alaska. Why do I know that? Because of the few deep targets I have already dug, including a silver ring yesterday, because I am used to the numerous tones of a Teknetics metal detector I used years ago (I rely on the sounds first, and the meter second), and because of the tiny lead and other metal pieces the 800 can detect shallow and deep (that's what I look for when nugget detecting).
c. What I did from the beginning was to laser-print the entire 600/800 owners manual on a laser printer, but skipped any of the introduction photos that had nothing to do with instructions, settings, menus, etc. I printed the table of contents, LCD icons, and all the instructions, modes, etc., to include specifications, warranty, and phone number (the last pages in the manual). The next step was to print a myriad of instructions and hints posted not only in this Equinox forum, but in other Equinox users forums. I keep on reading and trying things, until I learn the detector like the palm of my hand.
As with a new automobile, or a new digital camera, at the beginning most of us have all kinds of doubts about a new detector, and these doubts get in the way of learning how to use it. Just think about it this way after updating your detector: screw the coin on edge thing, and concentrate on listening to what the detector tells you (sounds). Go to places where there is not as much trash as the ones you now go to, and listen carefully for iffy signals. Dig the target, whatever in may be, and memorize the signal and ID the detector told you first, and showed you second. Just keep in mind that you have to concentrate on either the sounds, or the ID first, and not both at the same time. You will learn a combination of both once you have gained experience with your detector, whichever brand or model it may be.