Coil Stats & Opinions

[Critterhunter]

I know I've had a few threads on this but I figured I'd start fresh and with more specific coil data (price/weight/etc) to start off with, later moving onto whatever quotes I can dig up from people who have compared them in the field. I'm primarily interested in the S-5 versus the Excelerator 5", as well as the various coils bigger than 10" for maximum depth on coins. Here's what I've put together so far (very little!)...

10

 

[Neil]

Hi Critterhunter,
I was the one who weighed my 10" tornado coil and gave you that weight. I just read your post and thought I would weigh it with the cable off to the side instead of coiled on top of it. heres the weight of the coil itself, 19.785oz.
Now my input on the other coils: the S5 Ive used and its got good seperation but the depth is not to impressive. the tornado 8" is barely 1" larger as it is actually 7 1/4" OD versus the 5.5" of the S5, seperation on it is as good or better and the depth is almost double, its a much better small coil.
I have a 6" excellerator coil (for my etrac) and its depth is ok, likewise the seperation, again either the minelab 8" or Sunray 8" is a big step up in performance.
I have the 10X12 SEF for the etrac as well, its heavier than both the 10" tornado and stock pro coil, but it beats them both in depth and has a wicked tight center line of detection, the best seperation Ive ever seen on a large coil.
I had the 12X15 SEF for a little while, great depth and seperation as well, but very heavy so I sold it.
If you want a real feather weight coil that gets good depth and seperation look into a joey from coiltek. to waterproof it you will need to loosen and slide up the cable strain relief, goop it up good with some high grade silicone (I like the aquarium silicone), then reset the strain relief and let it sit a few days to dry fully.
This also works well on the 8" coinsearch coil.
Neil

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks for the specifics on those coils. I printed out every single thread on this forum from it's beginning that made any reference to any coil and had I'd say almost a 3" high stack of material to read.

I've got a deal pending on a used S5 coil. Took me a few hours and a lot of smokes to finish them all off. What I found was that there isn't much in the way of specifics or details in comparisons of the various coils. Just phrases like "it goes deep" or "I thought it was heavy" or "seperation was good". In comparison to what, a Ford Pinto? Anyway, I did dig up a few things and I'll share what I found as I have more time in the days ahead.

I have a deal pending on a used S5 coil at a decent price. That coil is 5.5" and I'm still curious how it compares in both actual size to the "5" (?) inch Excelerator as well as depth and seperation. I hear what you are saying about the 8" coils. Everybody seems to love the old Coinsearch as well. Probably the most liked 8" coil, with the new 8" Minelab being a close second or perhaps the S-8.

Still, when I want to hunt with a small coil I want the smallest possible so that seperation is as good as it's going to get in the trash. Thick trash areas that I hunt in old parks and such are usualy within 50 yards of the picnic areas, and most of the time the soil in those areas is hard and packed due to all the foot traffic. That translates into most of the old coins in those specific high trash/traffic areas not being very deep at all (less than 6", with most probably being only 1 to 4" deep). So, I want a very specific coil for those spots...the smallest possible.

I hear the depth of the S5 is pretty amazing, with some guys I think saying they are getting around 7 to 8 or more inches. So long as it's able to go 5 or 6 inches I'll be really happy. I look at it this way...Less depth means less potential target masking as well. I'd probably be hunting with it a lot with a low sensitivity level anyway to keep it's depth at a max of about 4" at a few of these spots where the trash is very thick and I know for sure the majority of old coins are going to be 4" or less. Not only does a lower sensitivity level keep you from hearing deeper trash, it also prevents you from picking up trash signals right next to a coin.

I've also got an old school near me with a small lot that is the worst iron infested spot I have ever seen. Your entire sweep of the coils is almost a constant iron hit with all the nails. Nobody I know has ever been able to pull a coin out of it with numerous machines. I'm hoping a tiny coil and the iron mask feature of the GT will make me the first. Even the Explorer and stock coil was beaten down by this spot, but I already feel the GT with it's stock coil is much better at working in iron than the Explores I've owned. I just seems to me that the Iron Mask feature on the Sovereign really does work, while on the Explorer I had the feeling it was more of a name than a function in my tests- in it's ability to pull a coin signal out of iron with it ON.

I'm still at a toss up with the larger coils. There doesn't seem to be any clear winner in depth that I can see from all the threads I've read. Well, I'd give the WOT a slight edge on the number of posts saying it went the deepest on coins, but there where quite a few posts saying the depth of the S-12 was just as good. I'm guessing that any depth advantage the WOT might have is slight at best, at maybe 1/4th" in most soils, but that's all speculation from what I've read on my part. Interestingly enough, I have read that the new 12.5" round Excelerator is about equal to the S12 in both quality, depth, and weight from the few I've read who have owned both.

What I'm VERY interested in at the moment is the new 14" round Excelerator coil. It seems to be the perfect compromise between the 15" WOT and the 12.5" S12. Perhaps it has the best of both worlds...The Depth of a WOT with the weight of an S12, or something in between...Almost WOT depth to the point of not being able to really tell the difference and at a weight that is just a tad heavier than the S12 but much lighter than the WOT? I don't know, because there seemed to be an almost total lack of messages on this coil. There were a couple on the older one, but those coil were not as hot as the new Excelerators are. I believe I did read one message from a guy who owned the S12, 12.5" and 14" Excelerators and he said the weight of all three was almost equal. That's encouraging, but I'd still like to see somebody weigh that new 14" coil and give any kind of depth comparisons of it to the WOT and S12. There is just something about that 14" coil that makes me think it might be a winner, and not just based on what somebody at Kellyco has told me.

I'm still going back and fourth on the 10x12 and 12x15 as well. There seem to be too many conflicting reports on those. Some say the 12x15 is deeper than the WOT on even small coins, while others say it doesn't have good sensitivity like a WOT on those targets at the same depth. Some also say the 10x12 is deeper on small coins than the 12x15. Some say both these coils seperate and pinpoint better than the WOT, and others say the exact opposite and also add that they are way more unstable than the WOT.

I'm at a total loss at the moment without more data to compare. What I want is the deepest coil for coins on land. I'm willing to trade a little bit of total depth if the coil is lighter than the WOT and perhaps has better seperation than it. At the moment the only coil that I think might offer that compromise could be the 14" Excelerator, but then again it could be the 12.5" or the S12. I'm just hoping somebody who has owned a few of these coils can give some comparisons. I'd really like to hear about the 14" comparison.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Critterhunter,I read a post while back that a gentleman used the 12" and 14" Excelerator on a beach.His findings for the 14" coil it wasn't as sensitive on the smaller coins and was surpised of the deep coins the 12" coil found after going over the same area.My money would be on the 12" Excelerator.Even though the weight is about the same the bulk isn't and the extra mass will have extra leverage or twist.I agree with Neil the little Minelab 7 1/4" coil is great coil for high trash parks,which is very underrated.Some times you can finds these coils at descent prices used which allow a lot of Sovereign users to buy and sell to cut their expenses down in this learning process.Like RickND says a lot of the better coils are hard to find used because people keep them.Good Luck

 

[Ron from Michigan]

The 14 inch Exelerator coil is going to have a lot of twist.Again your research gives you more confidence in the WOT.If you are going to buy new the WOT would be worth the extra money on resale value a lone.Again Good Luck Ron

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Cross reference with the 7 1/4" 800 coil X 2 < 15 inches probably very close in size to the Excelerator 14 inch. Hope that helps. Ron

 

[JHM]

This is only my opinion and I'm sure there are people who would disagree but the stock 10 inch tornado is my favorite. I like the the smallest coil that gets the best depth for it's size. I've dug coins 12 inches deep with it, which is about as deep as I want to dig. The only one I found that's deeper is the WOT. I've tried the S-12 and it seemed to me that the stock coil was just as deep in my ground. I had an 8 inch tornado and sold it to buy an 8 inch coinsearch because of the reputation it has. I'm wondering If I was too hasty. I plan to give it another try as soon as I find another one.

 

[UtahRich]

Hi Critterhunter,

Like Neil above, I reweighed the S-12 with the open coil cover. The coil and cable weigh a combined 1 lb 6.7 oz. With the coil on the side, 1 lb 3.0 oz. The weight does end up all on the same search rod, but some of the weight isn't out on the tip where it is felt as much.

I think you have a narrowed your choices down close enough that if you take a Seated Liberty Dime in VF condition and carefully place it in your right hand and flip it in air, you could take heads or tails for one coil or the other as a place to start and not be disappointed.

Good luck in your search,

Rich (Utah)

 

[Neil]

Thanks for the specifics on those coils. I printed out every single thread on this forum from it's beginning that made any reference to any coil and had I'd say almost a 3" high stack of material to read.

I've got a deal pending on a used S5 coil. Took me a few hours and a lot of smokes to finish them all off. What I found was that there isn't much in the way of specifics or details in comparisons of the various coils. Just phrases like "it goes deep" or "I thought it was heavy" or "seperation was good". In comparison to what, a Ford Pinto? Anyway, I did dig up a few things and I'll share what I found as I have more time in the days ahead.

I have a deal pending on a used S5 coil at a decent price. That coil is 5.5" and I'm still curious how it compares in both actual size to the "5" (?) inch Excelerator as well as depth and seperation. I hear what you are saying about the 8" coils. Everybody seems to love the old Coinsearch as well. Probably the most liked 8" coil, with the new 8" Minelab being a close second or perhaps the S-8.

Still, when I want to hunt with a small coil I want the smallest possible so that seperation is as good as it's going to get in the trash. Thick trash areas that I hunt in old parks and such are usualy within 50 yards of the picnic areas, and most of the time the soil in those areas is hard and packed due to all the foot traffic. That translates into most of the old coins in those specific high trash/traffic areas not being very deep at all (less than 6", with most probably being only 1 to 4" deep). So, I want a very specific coil for those spots...the smallest possible.

I hear the depth of the S5 is pretty amazing, with some guys I think saying they are getting around 7 to 8 or more inches. So long as it's able to go 5 or 6 inches I'll be really happy. I look at it this way...Less depth means less potential target masking as well. I'd probably be hunting with it a lot with a low sensitivity level anyway to keep it's depth at a max of about 4" at a few of these spots where the trash is very thick and I know for sure the majority of old coins are going to be 4" or less. Not only does a lower sensitivity level keep you from hearing deeper trash, it also prevents you from picking up trash signals right next to a coin.

I've also got an old school near me with a small lot that is the worst iron infested spot I have ever seen. Your entire sweep of the coils is almost a constant iron hit with all the nails. Nobody I know has ever been able to pull a coin out of it with numerous machines. I'm hoping a tiny coil and the iron mask feature of the GT will make me the first. Even the Explorer and stock coil was beaten down by this spot, but I already feel the GT with it's stock coil is much better at working in iron than the Explores I've owned. I just seems to me that the Iron Mask feature on the Sovereign really does work, while on the Explorer I had the feeling it was more of a name than a function in my tests- in it's ability to pull a coin signal out of iron with it ON.

I'm still at a toss up with the larger coils. There doesn't seem to be any clear winner in depth that I can see from all the threads I've read. Well, I'd give the WOT a slight edge on the number of posts saying it went the deepest on coins, but there where quite a few posts saying the depth of the S-12 was just as good. I'm guessing that any depth advantage the WOT might have is slight at best, at maybe 1/4th" in most soils, but that's all speculation from what I've read on my part. Interestingly enough, I have read that the new 12.5" round Excelerator is about equal to the S12 in both quality, depth, and weight from the few I've read who have owned both.

What I'm VERY interested in at the moment is the new 14" round Excelerator coil. It seems to be the perfect compromise between the 15" WOT and the 12.5" S12. Perhaps it has the best of both worlds...The Depth of a WOT with the weight of an S12, or something in between...Almost WOT depth to the point of not being able to really tell the difference and at a weight that is just a tad heavier than the S12 but much lighter than the WOT? I don't know, because there seemed to be an almost total lack of messages on this coil. There were a couple on the older one, but those coil were not as hot as the new Excelerators are. I believe I did read one message from a guy who owned the S12, 12.5" and 14" Excelerators and he said the weight of all three was almost equal. That's encouraging, but I'd still like to see somebody weigh that new 14" coil and give any kind of depth comparisons of it to the WOT and S12. There is just something about that 14" coil that makes me think it might be a winner, and not just based on what somebody at Kellyco has told me.

I'm still going back and fourth on the 10x12 and 12x15 as well. There seem to be too many conflicting reports on those. Some say the 12x15 is deeper than the WOT on even small coins, while others say it doesn't have good sensitivity like a WOT on those targets at the same depth. Some also say the 10x12 is deeper on small coins than the 12x15. Some say both these coils seperate and pinpoint better than the WOT, and others say the exact opposite and also add that they are way more unstable than the WOT.

I'm at a total loss at the moment without more data to compare. What I want is the deepest coil for coins on land. I'm willing to trade a little bit of total depth if the coil is lighter than the WOT and perhaps has better seperation than it. At the moment the only coil that I think might offer that compromise could be the 14" Excelerator, but then again it could be the 12.5" or the S12. I'm just hoping somebody who has owned a few of these coils can give some comparisons. I'd really like to hear about the 14" comparison.

what your finding is that different soils, different operator skills, variances in both coils and detectors....they rule out a set of numbers that can be attached to a coil for depth. perhaps in a lab it can be done but who hunts in a lab? buy/try/keep or sell is your best option for finding out what works best where your at.
I tried a couple of the white S5s, one of the black S5s and a couple of the X5s as well and 5"to6" was the best I ever got on coin sized targets. now you look at the 5" shadow coil, 5" CZ coil or 5.75 Tesoro hot coil and Ive gotten coins down to 8/9" with those.I havent tried the 5" for my f75 yet.
Iron mask is a minelab feature, adjustable on the explorer/etrac but not on the gt. if you were to post your remarks about it on the explorer forum maybe those guys/gals can explain it better to you and help you understand it.
theres a site I bet you would like, the dankowski site, his video/dvd is great in showing how to test a detector,what effects its performance and so on. the guy is really into learning detectors and reading sites, I would recommend that to anyone.

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks for all the advice. That's a good point about a bigger coil being more stress on the shaft even if it doesn't weigh too much more, since the bulk of the weight isn't as close to the center/shaft area as it would be on coils with a smaller dimension.

On iron mask- As I've said in the past I've owned several Explorers (I think 3 over the years) and got a lot of field use on them, but for various reasons I moved on. Some of those being weight with inability to hip mount, floating ID on deeper targets due to the high resolution, good multitones but lack of tone quality or length to decipher, finicky settings at certain sights costing depth, and so on. Mainly, though, the machine took much of the fun out of my hunts due to having to stay on top of it at all times to achieve best performance. It was mentaly and physicaly taxing. I ran several tests on the Iron Mask feature and IMHO it was simply a way to quickly adjust the discrimination on iron, and not really a "window" into the iron to help see coins. Sure, it had some ability but no more than I've seen on other machines I've played with at giving some form of ID to coin/iron targets. With the tests I've ran on the GT I'm finding that Iron Mask on it really does seem to have special abilities to pull good IDs out of coins masked with iron. This is just my opinion and I'm sure others may strongly disagree, but I feel Iron Mask really was an ability on the Sovereigns that earned a name for it's self, but that on the Explorer it's really just a name- an easy way to adjust iron discrimination. I'm sure I'll get some heat for that but it's what I found to be true for me. Others may differ.

Ra

 

[Critterhunter]

Here

 

[Waterman]

I too am looking for the same information,,, Thanks

 

[Critterhunter]

I got ahold of JW at KellyCo because a lot of people seem to reference him as being very informed on the products they sell. I asked his opinion on what he thinks would be the deepest of the larger coils for coins on the Sovereign without losing senstivity to small coins. I asked about the 12.5" and 14" Excelerators but he told me that even these newer versions of those coils are still "older technology". He said the 10x12 SEF coil would be his pick out of all of them for being the deepest on coins. The SEF design is the latest as far as technology goes and offers a hybrid double D/Concentric design, resulting in better seperation and pinpointing than a pure DD of similar size, yet also offering better coverage and sensitivity to small targets than a large concentric would. What I've always read is concentrics quickly lose sensitivity to smaller coins when they get much bigger than 10 to 12 inches, while DD's of this size and even a bit larger will still have good sensitivity to small targets.

Anyway, take it for what it's worth. He says the 10x12 is the deepest that they sell for even smaller dime size coins. I would note that the 10x12 is cheaper than all of the larger coils they sell at $169, so if he just wanted to make a sale he could have easily pointed me towards one of the others for best commision. He even told me that I should wait until spring before buying one so I can check it's depth out in the field. That way with the 30 day money back offer they have on all their Excelerator coils you can send it back if it doesn't perform like you think it should. That's not a bad deal. I figure you'd have to pay for shipping. Just wonder if there is a re-stocking fee? Have to check on their site to see.

Also note that according to the weights I have listed in one of the above messages that this coil is only about 1.62 ounces heavier than the S-12, and still about one ounce lighter than the stock 10" Tornado coil that comes with the GT, so it actualy looks like you'd lose a little weight over the stock coil while still getting better coverage and probably deeper. I can see why being 10" wide and 12" tall would give you more coverage than a 10" and better trash seperation than 12", as I would figure the shape squeezes the signal left/right width. I just wonder if the 12" tip to tail length is still giving you the depth of a 12" round coil. Then again I'm sure there are other factors in the internal design, windings, and the coil amp that could give better depth for one reason or another.

 

[Critterhunter]

Almost forgot...I weighed my 10" Tornado with stock (full length) cable and coil cover and it came out to 25.6 ounces. Compared to 25.23 that you weighed yours at and they are pretty close,

Neil above said the 10x12 on his Etrac weighs more than the stock 10" Tornado or the pro coil, but that could be due to the different windings/internals that that coil has on the Etrac compared to the BBS version for the Sovereign. The weight Iisted was what Raul at Kellyco said it weighed when he did it himself. I'll have to check KellyCo's website to see if they list a weight for this coil, and if it's heavier than what Raul said.

Which reminds me...I've read on the net about a guy making a homemade 10x12 (12x15?) size coil for his Sovereign which came in at only 16 ounces. I also read somewhere that a guy sanded off a lot of the heavy epoxy on the bottom of one of the SEF coils and re-sealed it with a thinner/higher quality epoxy and dropped a lot of weight that way. If anybody has the particulars (I can't find it again) please post that link.

I also weighed the S-5 (5.5") coil with coil cover and stock cable and it only weighs 16 ounces.

EDIT: Just found a coil weight for the 10x12 on the Explorer/Etrac version from a field test and it was 22.8575 ounces.