COIL QUESTION 6x10 or SEF

[jzwillia]

I have the 950 and would like to get another coil for my MXT?Any feedback on which coil is better? The whites 6x10 DD or the 6x8 DDSef?....also it looks as if there is a Sef 5x10 DD out...any feeback on this one?
Thanks

 

[Monte]

what types of hunting do you plan to use the accessory search coil for? The stock 950 is an 'OK' coil for general hunting in more open areas with a small amount of trash so targets are not too close. It's also a good coil for covering open areas like a beach or plowed field, or big open grassy parks.

So the question folks need to know to let you know about the performance of other search coils is what you're after? Coins & Jewelry? Artifacts? Gold nuggets?

What type of terrain will you search and what are the site conditions? Loose soil or grass in a flat open territory? Highly mineralized sand or rocks or dirt in a rough, uneven area? Not trashy, moderate trash, very trashy? And what types of trash is it, mostly non-ferrous junk or a lot of iron nails and other ferrous-based litter?

Do you have the original MXT or the MXT Pro or renamed MXT All-Pro?

You already have a moderate-to-larger size coil, so have you considered a smaller-than-stock coil. such as the 4X6 DD or 6½" Concentric, or some aftermarket smaller size coil?

What other detectors do you have or have you used, and do you have field experience with both Double-D and Concentric type search coils? Is there a reason you're considering one of two Double-D designs?

Welcome to the Findmall White's Forum as I see this was your first post after registering today. When asking these types of questions, it is always helpful to provide more useful information for others to help.

Monte

 

[Aarong81]

LOL, It might matter what color your vehicle is too!
Those are all DD coils of fairly similar design and size so it will not define which is the best coil knowing your soil conditons. If you have trashy ground, all of these coils are suited for it. If you have highly mineralized ground, all of these coils are designed for it. Will you always detect in trash free, non-mineralized ground? I doubt it, so they will certainly be better suited at some point compared to the 950. Can you tell me exactly what mineralization your ground has in it? I doubt it since it is different everywhere you go. Next to the BBQ at the park is different than across the street, ect.
All coils made for the MXT will work on any MXT so it also does not matter what stickers your detector is sporting.

Let's just answer your questions without questions.
The 6x10 and 5x10 will have the most coverage per sweep, front to back, so you can move forward slightly faster and have marginally better depth. Of those two, the 5x10 will separate targets better and deal with mineralization better with marginal loss of depth.

The 6x8 is closer to the 5.3 eclipse as it is less extreme of DD and both are 6" coils. It will pinpoint better, separate best of the three DD's mentioned but cover less ground. It may deal with highly mineralized ground better than the 5.3 but in most regards it is nearly equal and having both(6x8 & 5.3) is nearly redundant.....aside from the slight mineralization advantage. If you don't have the 5.3 and are interested in this coil it will be a useful addition to your arsenal. The other two coils you mentioned are closer to your 950 in SIZE only, but they will handle trash and minerals MUCH better. In ideal ground, your 950 will have better depth but we often detect in less than ideal ground so the larger DD's will find a good use.

Out of the ones you asked about, I'd go with.....

General Purpose: 950 for CLEAN ground and mostly clean ground......lots of trash or high mineralization calls for a specialized coil for such....see below
G.P./Specialized: TOSS UP between 5x10 and 6x10 for the areas where the 950 struggles in minerals and trash. In even MORE extreme areas, use the next coil below.....
Extra Specialized: 6x8 as a 5.3 replacement......or just stick with the 5.3 if you already own it.
I don't believe detecting in grass will have any affect on any of these coils.

 

[foreign object]

I really like the 6x8"sef coil but I also like the 5.3 eclipse coil as it will get between targets the 6x8 will not.

Monte really likes and use concentric coils and they do have there place. He ask how much experience you had and there is a reason for that. Being new the concentric coils will easier recognize/disc. iron better than the DD coils will. The concentric coils also pinpoint way easier/better than the dd coils.

Aaron has some good advice as well and if you have some experience than the dd coils he mentioned may work very well for you.

FO

 

[jzwillia]

those posts are exactly why I love this forum, the knowledge and experience and the desire to help others out!
I hunt in the mountains of central Utah. Old homesteads, ghost-towns, etc with the occasional prospecting.
I have used many detectors through the years but unfortunately I have never stuck with one detector for more than a season. That has changed with the MXT and I am committed to sticking with it. I realize you have to stick with a machine and learn it. So, that being said I have used many DD coils and love them, it is kind of a confidence issue I guess and I like the mental picture of a blade slicing thru the ground.

So I guess to be more specific is how does the whites 6x10 compare with the sef DD coils?

Thanks in advance

 

[OregonGregg]

You already have a 950 coil, I would suggest if you want another coil and a good coil, I would look at the Eclipse 5.3 The 950 would cover you in more open areas and the 5.3 is a very hard coil to beat in the trashier areas. I mainly hunt 90+ % of the time in several old ghost towns and old homestead sites in my area and they are littered with iron nails/rusted tin. I have the 8x6 SEF and I tried the 5x10 SEF ( I didn't see any advantage over the 8x6 and sold it while it was still new) The 8x6 I have put many many hours on. Its a good coil and I have found some nice stuff with it. However, when it came to hunting the more iron infested /rusted tin sites , in a slow methodical small overlapping sweeps the Eclipse 5.3 beat the 8x6 every time. In all the nails and rusted tin I could find rivets off of pants with the 5.3 coil, not so well with the DD 8x6 SEF. I still own my 8x6 but its the Eclipse 5.3 coil that gets most the use. Anyhow just my thoughts and opinions. In the more open less trash areas i will use the 8x6 and the 9" spider coil.

 

[plidn1]

People have the impression that DD coils eliminate masking. They do not. Often times
they are vulnerable more so to masking then a concentric.

Another misconception of DD coils is that they are better in hot ground.
This is a maybe. If you are using a small DD it can help. But in the same ground, using a small concentric will work as good if not better.

In order to compensate in the depth loss of a DD vers a concentric, you have to go to a larger coil.
When you do this you are now reading more ground increasing the problem with hot ground.
By going to a larger coil, you also increase the problem of masking.
Larger coils also have the tendency of ignoring smaller objects.
Using a DD also decreases your ability to pin point and discriminate.

If you add all this to a new detector with a rather sever learning curve, you are compounding problems that you could eliminate with the right coil.
Most VLF detectors derive there best performance from a 6" to 7" coil on coin and jewelry type targets, in most hunting situations, at moderate depths.
All other size and type coils, larger or smaller, are designed for nitch hunting situations.
These are special applications for your hunting style or area conditions. Use of these coils create trade offs in performance in many different ways

Unless you are very experienced in using YOUR detector, you should only learn with a 6 or 7" coil.
Learn the detector first. Get a usable coil first to learn with. Once you have done this, you will be able to determine what other coil you may or may not need.

I have a long hunting history with detech coils and they are not to be sold short. In places where their particular strength is applied, they cannot be topped.
They are top notch performers that fill different nitches that the MFGs can't (or won't) provide.

For coin size and larger deeper targets, the 8x6 is very hard to beat.
But if you are looking for small gold (nuggets, chains, earrings, earring backs, tiny rings, pendants, etc.) I have found it tends to ignore them.
Especially on the surface.

The smaller coils are much more sensitive to these higher value targets.
I have found in situations like you describe in ghost towns and like places,
The small concentric excels in performance.

Of all the coils I own for the MXT, the 5.3 is still the best all around coil I have to work with.
It is the coil I use when I am serious and not just out playing..

 

[Monte]

People have the impression that DD coils eliminate masking. They do not. Often times
they are vulnerable more so to masking then a concentric.

Quite true!

Another misconception of DD coils is that they are better in hot ground.
This is a maybe. If you are using a small DD it can help. But in the same ground, using a small concentric will work as good if not better.

I have found that to be true, and proven in many "bad ground" hunting conditions.

In order to compensate in the depth loss of a DD vers a concentric, you have to go to a larger coil.

Correct.

When you do this you are now reading more ground increasing the problem with hot ground.

Also correct.

By going to a larger coil, you also increase the problem of masking.

Very noticeable.

Larger coils also have the tendency of ignoring smaller objects.

That's right, and it can get frustrating .... for those who use them then find out what they have been waling over.

Using a DD also decreases your ability to pin point and discriminate.

More difficult to Pinpoint than with a Concentric, and both audible Discrimination and VDI read-outs are not as 'tight' or 'consistent' as with a Concentric.

If you add all this to a new detector with a rather sever learning curve, you are compounding problems that you could eliminate with the right coil.
Most VLF detectors derive there best performance from a 6" to 7" coil on coin and jewelry type targets, in most hunting situations, at moderate depths.

Yep, keep the "learning curve" simple, and learn the masterful performance of a 6"-7" Concentric coil.

All other size and type coils, larger or smaller, are designed for nitch hunting situations.
These are special applications for your hunting style or area conditions. Use of these coils create trade offs in performance in many different ways

I have a few 'niche' coil, and I mount them up, if needed, for 'niche' needs, when they arise. It's good to have one or two 'specialty' coils to back-up a solid day-in/day-out, all-purpose size Concentric coil.

Unless you are very experienced in using YOUR detector, you should only learn with a 6 or 7" coil.
Learn the detector first. Get a usable coil first to learn with. Once you have done this, you will be able to determine what other coil you may or may not need.

Again, plidn1 has sit spot-on, and the key here is getting the experience, that's time in afield, to really understand the merits of a 6"-7" search coil, then shop for one or two more as needed.

I have a long hunting history with detech coils and they are not to be sold short. In places where their particular strength is applied, they cannot be topped.
They are top notch performers that fill different nitches that the MFGs can't (or won't) provide.

I have owned and/or used just about every one of them and agree that they should not be sold short. Most of them, even in the earlier years of their introduction, were very solid and reliable, and field performance was great! There's even one in their current line-up I plan to add to my arsenal in the future, just for 'niche' hunting needs.

For coin size and larger deeper targets, the 8x6 is very hard to beat.
But if you are looking for small gold (nuggets, chains, earrings, earring backs, tiny rings, pendants, etc.) I have found it tends to ignore them.
Especially on the surface.

I also noted some trouble son many small, challenging targets, and even when a Concentric coil had a tough time, the comparable size DD flunked.

The smaller coils are much more sensitive to these higher value targets.
I have found in situations like you describe in ghost towns and like places,
The small concentric excels in performance.

I've relied on smaller coils, mainly Concentric, for decades, and I haven't found a DD coil yet that could rival the Concentric coils I currently put to work.

Of all the coils I own for the MXT, the 5.3 is still the best all around coil I have to work with.
It is the coil I use when I am serious and not just out playing.

Yep, that #1 coil is mounted on my #1 all-purpose detector for probably 90% to 95% off all my detecting needs. And most of my detecting time IS serious hunting time.

Monte

 

[Bill G]

Watch this Video Test between Whites 6X10 DD and the 6X8 SEF coil.This test made a believer out of me ( have done the test myself ) I love my 6X8 SEF coil it's a fine coil on all the MXT models and the M6 detectors.

http://youtu.be/pBT5idh8_Kk

Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[plidn1]

A few years ago My hunting partner and I wanted a coil in the 6x10" size for our MXT's. So we borrowed one from a friend and took it to a park that had a ball diamond and soccer field. We both were using std MXT's.

I started with the Whites 6x10 and he was using his 5.3.
The ground, in prospect mode, read 84 and we both hunted in C&J mode with no discrimination at preset gain.
I hunted for an hour and could not find anything deeper then 4 1/2" with the 6x10.
On the other hand, my partner with his 5.3 was hitting targets at 6 to 7" deep.

We switched, him using the 6x10 and I using my 5.3 (different coil). Here is the surprise.
He could only find targets up to 5" while I started finding targets in the 7" depth range.
Needless to say we didn't buy one of those.

I have since tried a whites D2 and it was nothing like what I read about on the forms. It is a typical large coil providing the standard amount of masking of targets and was the most unruly coil I have used yet. Hard to stabilize and pin pointing was out of the question.

Just for information sake, I never have found the need for an auxiliary hand held pin pointer. I paid a lot of money for a detector that had one built into it's functions. The MXT has one of the best pin pointing systems I have ever used on a detector. With it you can also size a target giving you more information to work with.
But to take advantage of the pin pointer, it works best with a concentric coil, especially in the 6 to 7" size.

You tube vids are great for rainy days, but nothing substitutes in the field application.

 

[Monte]

those posts are exactly why I love this forum, the knowledge and experience and the desire to help others out!

Yes, there is a lot of information on all good forums. Part of the information comes from less experienced folks who have their share of success using coils that are oft times 'over-touted,' in my opinion. They work, but not for all the applications some think they would. There are others who have put in the time and effort and have learned more subtleties about detector and coil performance and they should also be listened to. Sometimes they/me might sound biased, but it's really more a level of confidence and understanding.

I hunt in the mountains of central Utah. Old homesteads, ghost-towns, etc with the occasional prospecting.

'Home' is Ogden, Utah and I can guarantee you that I have found a bunch of good stuff throughout Utah, although most has been in the northern half of the state.

If you don't mind, shoot me an e-mail [email subject=Monte]monte@stinkwaterwells.com[/email] and let me know what chunk of "Central Utah" you live in and some generalities of where you hunt. I'm going to be making a run 'back home' to Utah to visit five of my kids and thirteen of my grandchildren for Christmas, and maybe I can extend my travel a little bit in your direction and we could meet. It would be great to chat a bit, but we can also do some side-by-side search coil evaluations.

I've been hunting different ghost towns in Utah since I worked my first on May 4th of '69 and they have rewarded me well through the years. Which detector(s) and search coil(s) have you mainly used on your successful hunts?

I have used many detectors through the years but unfortunately I have never stuck with one detector for more than a season. That has changed with the MXT and I am committed to sticking with it. I realize you have to stick with a machine and learn it.

You need to stick with a detector long enough to learn it well, both the strengths and weaknesses, and once mastered, continue to use and learn it. The same goes for learning search coils, and site search techniques.

So, that being said I have used many DD coils and love them, it is kind of a confidence issue I guess and I like the mental picture of a blade slicing thru the ground.
mental picture of a blade slicing thru the ground.

Curious, WHY you love Double-D coils, and WHICH DD's have impressed you the most? Have you used many of the Concentric coils, on other detector as well as the MXT for comparison? Have you only used the stock 950 Concentric coil on your MXT?

So I guess to be more specific is how does the whites 6x10 compare with the sef DD coils?

For 'looks' I give a nod to the 6X8 SEF coil. For manufacturer's warranty and service, I am sure that edge would go to White's for their 6X10 DD. I am not a big fan of after-market coils, especially made and brought t in from out-of-the-

I do have a couple of DD coils in my personal arsenal, but I rely on the Concentric coils that have proven their worth to me through fifty years of detecting, and those are mainly Concentric coils. My biggest gold nuggets, and actually most of all the gold nuggets I have ever found, were found when I was using a Concentric search coil. Most, depending upon the make and model in my hand, were in the 6" to 7" size range, and today it is the 6½" Concentric that gets the job done form me with my MXT All-Pro in most ghost town, homesteads, stage stops, railroad sites, encampments, and so forth.

Let me know where you are and possibly I could make it there, if you wouldn't mind meeting up for an hour or two. You can compare different search coils we each have on some sample targets and test scenarios I use, to include my favorite ghost town type test which came about in Frisco, Utah on Memorial Day Weekend of '94.

Best of success afield, but leave a few keepers behind for the future when I make my trips through Utah.

Monte