Got the Mr. Bill modded Classic ID out in the world today for a little swinging. My buddy Hal has a Troy X2, so it was natural to make a few comparisons between the detectors. Lets have a little side by side comparison, eh?
Physical features
+ Weight - Troy wins here. The X2 weighs 2lbs, period. The Classic ID goes more like 3.5 lbs. Still not a lot, but not even close to the little X2.
+ Balance - This is a subjective thing. Balance to you may be sheer drudgery to me.
But, while the Whites weighs more, it balances well. The larger coil adds a bit more weight out on the end, which helps. But again at about next-to-nothing in weight, the Troy doesn't have to have balance, per se. It's already like a feather.
When it comes to heft" or solidity, however, the Classic ID is the clear winner. The X2 feels like a stiff breeze would blow it away.
+ Appearance - I'm reminded of Henry Fords comment when asked what colors the Model -T came in. "As long as you like black... you'll love it!"
Troy X2? It's black, with gold and red script. White's Classic ID? Also black, with white script.
The Troy looks something like a toy, with it's small 7" coil and lilliputian control box. The gold and red help to offset this.
The Classic ID looks more serious, with it's under slung housing, handle mounted display and larger 8" coil.
Controls, Frequency and indicators
Troy X2 - this little hot shot, made by Tesoro for Troy Electronics is the ultimate in simplicity, being a modified Silver Sabre uMax. It has the following controls:
SENS: 0 - 10+ (max) rotary control
DISC: iron to coin range, rotary control
Pinpoint small pushbutton
"Coin Check" Another push button, a sort of "dual mode" control,. This one jumps the Disc. to just above pulltabs when pressed.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ground Balance: fixed
FREQ: 9.6 - 10 khz
COIL: Troy 7" Nice and small, a PCB type coil. Could become one of my favorites, no doubt.
Thats it. All target information is audio, single tone. It's kinda bird-like, even shrill. But there aint no doubt when it goes off.
White's Classic ID - The Classic w/ Mr. Bill mods, offers more user controls and indicators than the X2
SENS: Min - Max rotary control. PRESET setting at about 2 o'clock on the cont.
The Mr. Bill is said to add roughly 10% boost to the sensitivity over stock configuration.
DISC: Min - Max. PRESET at 10 o'clock, marked "Rings" and one at 2 o'clock, marked "Coins"
Frequency: 6.59 khz
PinPoint Trigger: A trigger mount control that sets DISC mode in the center, ALL METAL in the forward, locked position and Pinpoint when pulled to the rear.
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, here is where we start to leave the Troy behind. It can only dream about the following features.
Ground Balance: Manual
Here is a big change from the Troy and the stock Classic ID. The manual GB gives you added versatility, allowing you to adapt to mineralization changes from site to site. It is dead easy to adjust, too.
THRESH: This is the other obvious change by Mr. Bill. With this control, you can adjust the THRESH to your liking and even push the audio with a little supertuning.
COIL: White's 8" ProScan. One of the old wire wound, 2-shell type. Not my favorite
Okay, now we really leave the Troy X2 towards the rear.
TID Display: 8 Segment block cursor display
Each block indicates a range of targets, type of target and offers possible target types via graphic icons...
IRON RANGE
1. Iron ..................................... nail/bottle cap
GOLD RANGE
2. Foil ..................................... small ring
3. Nickle ................................ nickel/medium-small ring/pulltab
4. Pulltab ............................... medium-large/pulltab
5. One Cent, Zn .................... large ring/screw cap/Zinc Cent ........
SiLVER RANGE
6. Dime/One Cent, Cu ......... n/a
7. Quarter .............................. n/a
8. Half-Dollar/Dollar .............. n/a
In The Field Performance
Okay, all this feature-for-feature business is nice, but how did the two instruments compare in the "real world?" The Troy line has been touted for years as a top-notch relic detector as well as a good all around unit. The Classics don't really have the average relic heads' "Seal of Approval," although they have a reputation for being good in trash and at least adequate. So lets see what happened.
The hunt site was an old, early 1900's school that had been torn down over the summer. It was grown up with a seasons worth of weeds. Hal learned that one of the more prominent weeds was the dreaded - and painful - sand spur! It doesn't help that he was wearing sneakers and shorts.Next time I bet he'll wear jeans and boots!
The soil at this site was littered with every kind of trash from the building demo. Iron 'whatsis' and pull tabs, conduit and wire and crushed aluminum cans were everywhere. I expected the Troy to do well here, with it's smallish coil. How the Classic ID would fare would have to be seen.
Comparisons were made while actually detecting, target for target, hit for hit.
Only once did we contrive any sort of manufactured "test," and we did that just to prove a point.
Results
Depth
Neither detector had any problem getting target hits at the usual depths, 6"-8." Some few were even deeper. Anything could be at any depth and that was the way it worked out, although I was most interested the deeper items.
I immediately noted the Classics amplitude modulation. This means the deeper the target, the softer the tone. By comparison, shallow targets would practically blow your ears out! I found several copper cents at what I reckoned to be at least 8" by the amount of digging required to recover them. They signaled with clear, quiet audio tones - AND reliable VID, to boot.
ID Accuracy
Only the Classic ID had any sort of VISUAL TID, with it's 8 block display. So this put the X2 at something of a disadvantage. Normally, I wouldn't say that, having cut my teeth on "beep and dig" detectors many years ago. But I've come to realize that today's detectors are better than many imagine at VID. This is especially so for those who fail to recognize that and exploit this feature. During the course of this trial, I found the VID to be very accurate, even at depth.
Good solid metal items gave reliable lock-on of the cursor. Trashy targets or those mixed with iron gave predictable jumpy, unstable cursor movements. I'm pleased to say that each time the X2 would declare a target, I could get a better idea of what it might be by combining the audio and VID information from the Classic.
Stability
I cannot say how stable the X2 was, as I wasn't running it. But the Classic ID was dead calm! I had heard that you could crank the SENS way up, even to max, without instability problems. SO I did - and it was true. There were a few moments where I noticed some minor quirks and falsing, but nothing that was even troublesome.
Couple this solidity with one of the smoothest audios in the business. The Troy has what I can only call a sharp, biting response. But the Classic offers a mellow, smooth tone that is well, classic.
I am not generally a big fan of monotone beepers, but this was actually a nice listening experience. When the Classic gives a clean audio and any sort of reasonably stable TID, dig! Take that to the bank.
NOTE: I found that high performance headphones made a difference by brightening up the audio. I started out the day with Calrad headphones - but was pleased when I switched to my studio monitor phones.
DISC/Target separation
I've been saving the best for last. To say the Classic excels at trash discrimination is no understatement.
Hal hunted his X2 in low discrimination, as is his usual habit. This is good. But the X2 popped and peeped on things the Classic was immune to. I too hunted in low DISC, at two marks below the "RING" preset. Yet, on many occasions, his detector indicated an iffy signal, which could only be called a "maybe."
The Classic ID, on the other hand, simply chose not to respond to these same targets, even at the low settings I was running. There was no audio, or only the merest of flutters, while the cursor would just jump around on the screen.
"It indicates trash," I'd tell him.
When he dug it, sure enough it was just that: some bit of junk, often with a hint of nearby iron showing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So how about target separation? One thing this sort of "in the field" test lacks is control. You cannot possibly know all that is going on beneath the coil. So we did one contrived, set-up test.
Hal had been hearing that the X2 would not get a dime when placed in proximity to a nail. It seems he had really gotten stuck on that idea, even though I said I thought it a very unlikely thing to run across. Lets just say the odds are long.
But he was determined, so in the course of the hunt he found a chunky nail and we tried it.
- He placed a dime on the ground and put the nail next to it. Neither detector had trouble getting the dime, although the TID on the Classic was skewed well into the iron end of the display by the ferrous metal.
- When the nail was placed end on to the dime, the detectors were only able to hit it in one direction - coming from the dime end first.
Well so far so good. Now for the acid test.
- Hal placed the dime on top of the nail and both detectors hit it without trouble, and again the Classics TID was skewed.
- He then placed the dime UNDER the nail - and both detectors hit it, although the response was short and clipped. And yet again, the Classic could not give it a proper TID.
So what was learned?
Well, first off I would like to say I found a lot of treasure but I didn't. All I managed was a dog tag from 1935.The goodies just weren't under my coil this day - they were under Hals! He found two 40% silver war nickels, along with several other old nickelsa nd some early Memorials. For what it's worth I did the same last time we were at his site,and he went home stumped. So it was tit for tat. But remember anything he hit, I could hit, too. He just hit em before I did.
1.Even with a large coil, the Classic ID did great in the trash.
Alright let me rephrase that: The "Mr. Bill Classic ID" did damn good in the trash. Where other detectors will signal, or pop and crackle at low discrimination settings, the C-ID simply did not bother.
2. It has an audio that will tell you if something is worth looking into.
3. It has a TID that is accurate within its limits, and to good depth. When coupled with the excellent audio, that counts for something.
4. It is well balanced and not complicated to operate. It is nearly "set and forget."
My only complaint at this point is the coil. It is fully functional, but I have never been a fan of these hollow, air bags from White's.
I've grown accustomed to the modern epoxy and PCB coils, I admit, and I find this a noticeable departure. But, considering all the other good points of the Classic ID, I believe I can live with it!
If you've ever wondered "what was up" with the various Classic detectors, I hope this helps you understand them a little better.
Thanks for reading.
Physical features
+ Weight - Troy wins here. The X2 weighs 2lbs, period. The Classic ID goes more like 3.5 lbs. Still not a lot, but not even close to the little X2.
+ Balance - This is a subjective thing. Balance to you may be sheer drudgery to me.
But, while the Whites weighs more, it balances well. The larger coil adds a bit more weight out on the end, which helps. But again at about next-to-nothing in weight, the Troy doesn't have to have balance, per se. It's already like a feather.
When it comes to heft" or solidity, however, the Classic ID is the clear winner. The X2 feels like a stiff breeze would blow it away.
+ Appearance - I'm reminded of Henry Fords comment when asked what colors the Model -T came in. "As long as you like black... you'll love it!"
Troy X2? It's black, with gold and red script. White's Classic ID? Also black, with white script.
The Troy looks something like a toy, with it's small 7" coil and lilliputian control box. The gold and red help to offset this.
The Classic ID looks more serious, with it's under slung housing, handle mounted display and larger 8" coil.
Controls, Frequency and indicators
Troy X2 - this little hot shot, made by Tesoro for Troy Electronics is the ultimate in simplicity, being a modified Silver Sabre uMax. It has the following controls:
SENS: 0 - 10+ (max) rotary control
DISC: iron to coin range, rotary control
Pinpoint small pushbutton
"Coin Check" Another push button, a sort of "dual mode" control,. This one jumps the Disc. to just above pulltabs when pressed.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ground Balance: fixed
FREQ: 9.6 - 10 khz
COIL: Troy 7" Nice and small, a PCB type coil. Could become one of my favorites, no doubt.
Thats it. All target information is audio, single tone. It's kinda bird-like, even shrill. But there aint no doubt when it goes off.
White's Classic ID - The Classic w/ Mr. Bill mods, offers more user controls and indicators than the X2
SENS: Min - Max rotary control. PRESET setting at about 2 o'clock on the cont.
The Mr. Bill is said to add roughly 10% boost to the sensitivity over stock configuration.
DISC: Min - Max. PRESET at 10 o'clock, marked "Rings" and one at 2 o'clock, marked "Coins"
Frequency: 6.59 khz
PinPoint Trigger: A trigger mount control that sets DISC mode in the center, ALL METAL in the forward, locked position and Pinpoint when pulled to the rear.
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, here is where we start to leave the Troy behind. It can only dream about the following features.
Ground Balance: Manual
Here is a big change from the Troy and the stock Classic ID. The manual GB gives you added versatility, allowing you to adapt to mineralization changes from site to site. It is dead easy to adjust, too.
THRESH: This is the other obvious change by Mr. Bill. With this control, you can adjust the THRESH to your liking and even push the audio with a little supertuning.
COIL: White's 8" ProScan. One of the old wire wound, 2-shell type. Not my favorite
Okay, now we really leave the Troy X2 towards the rear.
TID Display: 8 Segment block cursor display
Each block indicates a range of targets, type of target and offers possible target types via graphic icons...
IRON RANGE
1. Iron ..................................... nail/bottle cap
GOLD RANGE
2. Foil ..................................... small ring
3. Nickle ................................ nickel/medium-small ring/pulltab
4. Pulltab ............................... medium-large/pulltab
5. One Cent, Zn .................... large ring/screw cap/Zinc Cent ........
SiLVER RANGE
6. Dime/One Cent, Cu ......... n/a
7. Quarter .............................. n/a
8. Half-Dollar/Dollar .............. n/a
In The Field Performance
Okay, all this feature-for-feature business is nice, but how did the two instruments compare in the "real world?" The Troy line has been touted for years as a top-notch relic detector as well as a good all around unit. The Classics don't really have the average relic heads' "Seal of Approval," although they have a reputation for being good in trash and at least adequate. So lets see what happened.
The hunt site was an old, early 1900's school that had been torn down over the summer. It was grown up with a seasons worth of weeds. Hal learned that one of the more prominent weeds was the dreaded - and painful - sand spur! It doesn't help that he was wearing sneakers and shorts.Next time I bet he'll wear jeans and boots!
The soil at this site was littered with every kind of trash from the building demo. Iron 'whatsis' and pull tabs, conduit and wire and crushed aluminum cans were everywhere. I expected the Troy to do well here, with it's smallish coil. How the Classic ID would fare would have to be seen.
Comparisons were made while actually detecting, target for target, hit for hit.
Only once did we contrive any sort of manufactured "test," and we did that just to prove a point.
Results
Depth
Neither detector had any problem getting target hits at the usual depths, 6"-8." Some few were even deeper. Anything could be at any depth and that was the way it worked out, although I was most interested the deeper items.
I immediately noted the Classics amplitude modulation. This means the deeper the target, the softer the tone. By comparison, shallow targets would practically blow your ears out! I found several copper cents at what I reckoned to be at least 8" by the amount of digging required to recover them. They signaled with clear, quiet audio tones - AND reliable VID, to boot.
ID Accuracy
Only the Classic ID had any sort of VISUAL TID, with it's 8 block display. So this put the X2 at something of a disadvantage. Normally, I wouldn't say that, having cut my teeth on "beep and dig" detectors many years ago. But I've come to realize that today's detectors are better than many imagine at VID. This is especially so for those who fail to recognize that and exploit this feature. During the course of this trial, I found the VID to be very accurate, even at depth.
Good solid metal items gave reliable lock-on of the cursor. Trashy targets or those mixed with iron gave predictable jumpy, unstable cursor movements. I'm pleased to say that each time the X2 would declare a target, I could get a better idea of what it might be by combining the audio and VID information from the Classic.
Stability
I cannot say how stable the X2 was, as I wasn't running it. But the Classic ID was dead calm! I had heard that you could crank the SENS way up, even to max, without instability problems. SO I did - and it was true. There were a few moments where I noticed some minor quirks and falsing, but nothing that was even troublesome.
Couple this solidity with one of the smoothest audios in the business. The Troy has what I can only call a sharp, biting response. But the Classic offers a mellow, smooth tone that is well, classic.
I am not generally a big fan of monotone beepers, but this was actually a nice listening experience. When the Classic gives a clean audio and any sort of reasonably stable TID, dig! Take that to the bank.
NOTE: I found that high performance headphones made a difference by brightening up the audio. I started out the day with Calrad headphones - but was pleased when I switched to my studio monitor phones.
DISC/Target separation
I've been saving the best for last. To say the Classic excels at trash discrimination is no understatement.
Hal hunted his X2 in low discrimination, as is his usual habit. This is good. But the X2 popped and peeped on things the Classic was immune to. I too hunted in low DISC, at two marks below the "RING" preset. Yet, on many occasions, his detector indicated an iffy signal, which could only be called a "maybe."
The Classic ID, on the other hand, simply chose not to respond to these same targets, even at the low settings I was running. There was no audio, or only the merest of flutters, while the cursor would just jump around on the screen.
"It indicates trash," I'd tell him.
When he dug it, sure enough it was just that: some bit of junk, often with a hint of nearby iron showing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So how about target separation? One thing this sort of "in the field" test lacks is control. You cannot possibly know all that is going on beneath the coil. So we did one contrived, set-up test.
Hal had been hearing that the X2 would not get a dime when placed in proximity to a nail. It seems he had really gotten stuck on that idea, even though I said I thought it a very unlikely thing to run across. Lets just say the odds are long.
But he was determined, so in the course of the hunt he found a chunky nail and we tried it.
- He placed a dime on the ground and put the nail next to it. Neither detector had trouble getting the dime, although the TID on the Classic was skewed well into the iron end of the display by the ferrous metal.
- When the nail was placed end on to the dime, the detectors were only able to hit it in one direction - coming from the dime end first.
Well so far so good. Now for the acid test.
- Hal placed the dime on top of the nail and both detectors hit it without trouble, and again the Classics TID was skewed.
- He then placed the dime UNDER the nail - and both detectors hit it, although the response was short and clipped. And yet again, the Classic could not give it a proper TID.
So what was learned?
Well, first off I would like to say I found a lot of treasure but I didn't. All I managed was a dog tag from 1935.The goodies just weren't under my coil this day - they were under Hals! He found two 40% silver war nickels, along with several other old nickelsa nd some early Memorials. For what it's worth I did the same last time we were at his site,and he went home stumped. So it was tit for tat. But remember anything he hit, I could hit, too. He just hit em before I did.
1.Even with a large coil, the Classic ID did great in the trash.
Alright let me rephrase that: The "Mr. Bill Classic ID" did damn good in the trash. Where other detectors will signal, or pop and crackle at low discrimination settings, the C-ID simply did not bother.
2. It has an audio that will tell you if something is worth looking into.
3. It has a TID that is accurate within its limits, and to good depth. When coupled with the excellent audio, that counts for something.
4. It is well balanced and not complicated to operate. It is nearly "set and forget."
My only complaint at this point is the coil. It is fully functional, but I have never been a fan of these hollow, air bags from White's.
I've grown accustomed to the modern epoxy and PCB coils, I admit, and I find this a noticeable departure. But, considering all the other good points of the Classic ID, I believe I can live with it!
If you've ever wondered "what was up" with the various Classic detectors, I hope this helps you understand them a little better.
Thanks for reading.