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CJC Interesting High :confused:Threashold/Sensitivity Null Note

C

Cal_Cobra

Active member
I keep reading and re-reading the CJC Sovereign book in hopes that I'll pick up on some of his tips and tricks to mastering the Sovereign.

One note that I was reading this evening I found particularly interesting was (from page 21) :

"I have also heard several hunters mention that when they want to maximize the Sovereign's power, they turn the sensitivity up and operate in the null in order to minimize the chatter produced by this high setting. The idea is that good targets will jump through this null threshold and be audible. With many detectors, this kind of null threshold method works well to reduce ground noises, although the Sovereign's stability is usually sufficient."

I found this particularly interesting as I was under the impression that when the Sovereign was nulling out, that the processor was resetting trying to reanalyze the ground, and therefore it wasn't capable of properly analyzing the ground signal. CJC's comment would seem to counter this thought, and if it works, I for one would be very happy as it would give you the ability to crank up the sensitivity and threshold in an iron infested area and allow the "good" signals to penetrate through the null. I have often noticed that when the Sovereign was nulling out, if a good coin target was present it would still come through, but have always wondered if you were completely loosing your depth capabilities.

Any thoughts on this ?

I'm going to hit a site on Thursday that I suspect is iron infested, but has great early to late 1800's potential and think I'll give this a try using either the S12 or WOT coil, perhaps it'll be a winning technique.

HH,
Brian
 
I'll be watching this post very closely.......:detecting:
 
I feel what some may do, and what Clive is talking about is area where there is not many signals and very little iron if any. We know that if running too much sensitivity in trashy ares we will lose depth and target separation as it sees right past the good target and sees the trash item also and possibly null out the good one. With higher sensitivity it sees everything at a higher sensitivity so it will null more on iron and like I say it will mask good targets more, we used to say like driving a car in fog, you will see more on low beams than high beams because of the fog, this is the same with sensitivity if the ground has not much trash you can run it higher sensitivity, but if there is a lot of trash it would be like running you headlight on high beam in fog.

To get the best depth I have found is running a threshold you can barely hear, sensitivity in manual, no disc or notch and go slow real slow and listen close to those tone changing, seems the higher the sensitivity the slower you have to go to hear the good targets mask by iron. Also if trashy you want a 8 inch coil or smaller as I have found the 8 inch Sun Ray coil or the 8 inch coinsearch got me more depth than the 10 inch BBS coils would.
I am a threshold person if I want the deep coins as some of these signals will not sound off in silent threshold and also I want to know if I am swinging the coil too fast as I need to hear that threshold coming and going.
 
Hi Rick,

Thanks for sharing your insight on Clive's notes. I've been doing what you mention in your second paragraph, although I was hoping I could do what was implied in Clive's book to go a little faster :biggrin:
 
I remember reading this too but it doesnt sound right and notice he only says he has heard what others have said, not that he has done it himself so I would suspect it was just filler for his book.
To high a sens can cause all kinds of problems and if I remember right in the manual minelab has an illustration as to what happens audio wise to a target with various threshold settings.
If your gonna experiment with this, remember theres only one way to really know if it works, when you find a target this way you need to check it with a lower sens and lower threshold setting, something typical of how you would set your machine up and see how it responds.
remember when you crank up the sens your also lighting up the ground, not just targets, so everything would be amplified. thats why proper tuning, getting your settings right for the site are so important.

good luck with it and please post your findings,

HH
Neil
 
I have to say I haven't used my Sovereign GT much lately as trying to learn the F-75 and my SE Pro, but felt good to use my GT again and glad I did too. I got permission to do a yard I been after for a while, but he said it has been gone over many times in the last 10 years, so he didn't think I would find anything left. Me being over confident as I know what the Sovereigns will do i told him good they got all the trash and new coins out of my way so I can get the older and deeper coins. First place I went was beside the sidewalk as this is where everyone seems to go, so would be a good test if anything was missed. Now I got a weaker good signal in with iron signal as I could tell this with the threshold tone as I run a slight threshold tone so I can hear anything going on, but seem like I could only get it coming at the target one way, but was repeatable and had to pinpoint the best I could in disc and then switched to all metal pinpoint and seen there was a smaller target between the iron. Now being I had the sensitivity at the 10 o'clock position I switched to silent search as the sensitivity was plenty high and got no signal at all with the silent search, cranked the sensitivity to max and still no signal in silent search, so went back to the threshold and got the signal again. Dug down about 7 inches and using the Sun Ray probe was able to find the target and it was a 1880 IH penny in nice shape. Swung the coil over this area again and it was a solid null. I feel that with the silent search and high sensitivity it will not find targets as a threshold and going slow will do with manual sensitivity, maybe I should have went to auto sensitivity, but I am sure I would not got this target either and why the proper setting are very important.
Now some of the area was a solid null with iron so I had to go very slow and picked out a 1889 IH at a good 7 inches and it too would not give a response in silent search, just a null of the iron. I would up with 3 Wheaties, the 2 IH, a 1911 V Nickle and nice sterling silver necklace with a sterling silver religious cross I had to be care full with as the chain was small and stuck in the ground, so I didn't want to break it. I also got some new coins too and even a Kennedy 1976 half plus 3 complete toy cars and many part of cars hit with the mower too. I got some other older items too and did get one rusty bottle cap that was deep and close to a nickle reading, so I had to dig it. I got a couple of rusty nails too that fooled me.
The whole idea was to try this turning up the sensitivity and turn down the threshold after I found some deeper and weaker signal in with iron, like the mythbuster would say it was "BUSTED"

I was there for about 2 1/2 hours and only covered by the sidewalk and a little in the yard which looks like it could have been filled some years ago as it was hard to even get iron signals.
 
What are you trying to say there Art ? :poke:LOL

Thanks for trying that test RIck. Effectively your saying that with the sens cranked up so it constantly nulls over iron, that's more or less a silent search ?

It sounds like I should stick with what I've been doing then, run the sens so it's stable with a slight thres hum.

In the areas where it's really nulling a lot, I guess switch to all metal mode, remove as much of the iron trash as possible and then try going over it again slowly in disc mode ?
 
Sounds like you understand.
No point in repeating things I have said over and over for years. It's a waste of time.
Every time I think I have heard the last possible screwball idea that only works by accident in one place or does not work at all, another pops up.
I give up.

HH
 
My copy of the CJC book deals with only the pre GT Soveriegns. There is one small mention of the GT, but when he wrote the book it was a new machine, and he had limited experience with it. So I believe that a lot of what he writes about pertains only to pre GT models.
 
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