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DeepTech

Cibola with GB some tests.

T

TomekV

New member
I buried small 0.61 inch brass coin (Polish 1 grosz) 10 inch deep (air test gave 13.4 inch). The very dry, hard, loose soil, but not sandy.
Test in disc mode - disc below "iron", tershold max, sens above 10 - stable (red area, but not max).
I adjusted neutral GB to ground, and ... no response, then I adjusted little positive ... no response, then I adjusted little negative (half turn of 10 turn pot) and response is !!!
So.. I'm little surprised.
I think metal detector has best depth when ground balance is set slightly positive or neutral. Maybe depends of soil type, maybe only in all-metal mode, but my Cibola on the soil, I tested, best depth in disc mode has when GB set a bit negative.
 
hope to have Gb added by the weekend.......I'm really excited.....stock cibola is wayyyyyy positive. I don't like the idea of tweaking the internal pot or sending the detector in to use different coils.

Total cost cibola + mods will be $250.....not bad for what I hope will be a killer machine.

I struggled with the thought of giving up on the warranty, but I take really good care of my detectors and I bought it used anyways sooooo...I'm not supposed to have the warranty ;-)

If I could have afforded a Vaquero I would have bought one, but I had one before and actually prefer the cibola....wasn't crazy about the 3 3/4 turn pot either. The 10 turn should be easier.


Do you have any pics of your cibola with mods? I'm just curious to see how it turned out. One other thing - did you do the mod or buy it modded? Did you use a washer in the pinpoint hole to make the Gb pot fit better and how did you position the washer if you did? I'm guessing it will be easy once I get to that point, but I want a plan before I do it ;-)
 
Hello Digitaltim.
I agree with You.
I made one photo of the Cibola.
I bought second hand (eBay) but not used, and mod it myself.
Yes I used washer with larger diameter than hole. I used pot with plastic knob, and cut knob, because was too long.
Red knob simlilar to pinpoint button :)

Tomek.
 
Just speculation ... but thinking that maybe the freshly loosened dirt may have had some affect on what setting gave best response.
Mine was very much on the positive side too before I did the mod.
 
I've read in another forum about power ground balancing procedure. Maybe can help.

From another website:

"The term "Power Balancing" is when the GB is set using the Discriminate mode instead of the usual all metal mode.
It was especially helpful when I used many Tesoro models the bulk of the time years ago and here's how (and why) it is done.

With a model that features a GB adjustment tied to both modes, you select the motion Disc mode. Set the
discriminate level at the minimum. You will get a much more functional GB setting if it has "full-range" acceptance
which is what Tesoro refers to as ED-180. The
 
Thank You akille68.
I didn't read it earlier, but unconsciously I did that :) , because I tried to go more negative GB and Cibola was stable (no false beeps) to max half turn of pot difference from neutral GB.
Something I don't understand ... I think is small mistake in this text:

"Threshold will usually null out and go silent as the coil approaches the ground. Thus, the Disc. mode is offset
somewhat positive compared with the All Metal mode."

I think that should be:

"Threshold will usually null out and go silent as the coil approaches the ground. Thus, the Disc. mode is offset
somewhat negative compared with the All Metal mode."

What do You think ?
 
The drawback on a GB setting to the negative side is that in some areas the detector will become noisy and give false signals. This isn
 
TomekV said:
Something I don't understand ... I think is small mistake in this text:

"Threshold will usually null out and go silent as the coil approaches the ground. Thus, the Disc. mode is offset
somewhat positive compared with the All Metal mode."

I think that should be:

"Threshold will usually null out and go silent as the coil approaches the ground. Thus, the Disc. mode is offset
somewhat negative compared with the All Metal mode."

What do You think ?
Click to expand...

"Power Balancing" is a technique I have used and instructed for decades now. As for the last statement of my post, and the "quote" from your post:

Power Balancing is a method of adjusting the GB for peak performance in the silent-search motion Discriminate mode. On a White's Classic series model, the GB must be just slightly positive in the All Metal/Pinpoint mode. If it is spot-on or slightly negative, then there will be falsing in the motion Discriminate mode. Why? Because the circuitry design of the Classic series has the Discriminate GB referencing just a touch negative to the All Metal mode. So, with a Classic model, an "on-the-nose" GB setting in All Metal might result in a too negative GB in the motion Discriminate mode, and that causes falsing. This is especially true in more heavily iron mineralized sites.

With most Tesoro models, however, by design, the Discriminate mode is referenced with a somewhat positive offset compared with the All Metal mode's GB setting. Thus, if your GB is set slightly positive in the All Metal mode, it is even more positive in the Disc. mode. A 'spot-on' GB in All Metal still has a slightly positive GB in the Disc. mode, and, as stated above:

"Threshold will usually null out and go silent as the coil approaches the ground. Thus, the Disc. mode is offset
somewhat positive compared with the All Metal mode."

My posted statement (that was copied and posted) is correct because it is referring to the threshold-based All Metal mode. Once you Power Balance with most Tesoro models, to achieve the most functional/best depth performance in the Discriminate mode, then when you switch to the threshold-based All Metal mode and lower the coil toward the ground, the audible Threshold will null out. Thus, since the Disc. mode's GB is now set for peak performance and the All Metal is a bit negative, then if you increased the GB in All Metal the offset would be quite positive for the silent-search Discriminate mode.

When you reduced the GB on your Cibola you shifted it farther from the high-end of the conductivity range and closer to where the ground signal is balanced. Thus, you have less bias toward the ground signal and, because of that, you can more easily filter the ground signal and pass a target signal. As you found, that is exactly what happened.

Having a "proper" Ground Balance is important, especially if you're hunting in very mineralized ground, and a too-positive GB can certainly work against you. Since you can't hear a threshold and make a GB adjustment in the Discriminate mode, you can use my "Power Balancing" technique to achieve a best-performance setting in that silent-search mode.

Monte

MonteVB@comcast.net
 
Pap said:
The drawback on a GB setting to the negative side is that in some areas the detector will become noisy and give false signals. This isn
Click to expand...
 
Monte said:
Thus, since the Disc. mode's GB is now set for peak performance and the All Metal is a bit negative, then if you increased the GB in All Metal the offset would be quite positive for the silent-search Discriminate mode.
Click to expand...

Sorry - My English not perfect :)
Right.
Before I understand like: "offset among power balanced in disc and neutral GB with All Metal" now ... correct correct... :)

So, I made another test but not good. I bury the same type 0.61 inch brass coin at 10.3 inch (all settings like before), and unfortunately ...
GB neutral = good response
GB positive = good response
GB negative = good response (maybe little stronger, maybe myself hint)
*(&(*&^)^%#$% .... Soil very friendly for metal detecting... :)
I have no time to bury the coin at more depth. I try to do that next time.
 
Monte, I did not Know You were the original source...
I'm gonna send You the link of the other forum...
It looks like it has been a copyright violation.
 
Makes sense as to why the XL Pro when set neutral in all metal gets chatty in discriminate and the Tesoros get quiet. I will pay more attention to setting the ground balance up a little differently between the XL Pro and the Tesoros.
Cheers,
tvr
 
If I understand you correctly you're saying to Gb the cibola slightly negative in AM to achieve a neutral Gb in discriminate mode?
 
do a "Power Balance" in the Discriminate mode at the site you're searching.

Also, thanks for the link to the site.

Monte
 
Take the two wires that were on the pinpoint button and bring them to the front panel on a toggle switch,then you will have all metal mode on the Cibola,then you can just ground balance in the all metal mode right?.Just a guess?.
 
hello Monte. And does the power balancing technique also apply to the tejon?
 
Ok. Here is my video ... quality is bad, because YouTube reconverts all videos. I try to put in again packed with different codec.
Coin - brass - 0.61 inch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_C0pt0uBfQ
 
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