Hi, I just received my Cibola today, due to rain I could only try it out for a very short time. I think it will be plenty deep enough, my question is - I got a good signal/turned disc. up all the way/still got a good solid signal/dug target and it was a pepsi screw top. Shouldn't this of been discriminated out at that disc. setting? Not sure about the other types of pull tabs. The Cibola sure does pinpoint well! Thanks! Steve upstate New York.
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Cibola Discriminate Question
- Thread starter SkiWhiz
- Start date
[quote DavHut]SHOULD HAVE been DISC'ed out, yes. Is that absolute? No.
Your right Tesoros across the board are pp stars.[/quote] Could you explain alittle more David. Do you mean if it was squashed the size of a coin it would of picked it up??? Thanks! Steve. And do you think the Cibola has good discrimination abilities?
Your right Tesoros across the board are pp stars.[/quote] Could you explain alittle more David. Do you mean if it was squashed the size of a coin it would of picked it up??? Thanks! Steve. And do you think the Cibola has good discrimination abilities?
[size=small]Pete (saika) said it best, having quickly become a TesoroMeister. But I'll try to add something meaningful to his already excellent comments.
Screwcaps in their pure form (undamaged), when presented to the coil vertically, will normally DISC out as we expect them to. That is, just below Cu cent range, somewhere along with those Stinkin Zincers. But they can be manufactured with variances and so may be off somewhat.
Too, they can be squished or mangled and then they can offer several possibilities to the DISC circuitry. They tend to overload when shallow, too, so your detector is masked by that, as well.
In fact, that is probably the best way to know thats what you are dealing with - by their size, when compared to concise, sharp coin signatures.
Too, a distinct possibility is that there could have been something else nearby (within 2-3") that was good and you were getting mixed results.
Did you catch the use of words like "tend to," "possibilites," "somewhat," and "variables." The point is, there are no absolutes, my friend (if you could produce THAT for us, your fortune would be assured!). But there are many, many variables and to do more than expect "good odds" in terms of precise ID is foolhardy.
The Tesoro line has always been one of the best DISC instruments out there. They are normally sharp-edged to the point of actually being reliable the majority of the time. I've used them for years and that hasn't changed. I am sure your basic Cibola is no different.
And that is what it is, a basic detector. I would like to suggest something radical here, sort of a "working with the detector, not against it," thing. Start training yourself away from twiddling that DISC knob all the time. Merely set it and forget it. Dial it to the notch below nickel and dig all signals that sound good when swept slowly, smoothly and methodically. Yes youll find lots of tabs and other crap - - - allright, twiddle it a far as pulltab range, but only now and then.
The dreaded screwcaps will soon give themselves away as being large and signalling long after a good coin dissappears. But dig em anyway -My most interesting gold find last year was a full row of front teeth, 18K! Large and heavy, I found it with my Vaquero, in a park littered with screwcaps.
Wanna guess where it DISC'ed out at when I tested it at the hole side? Dead in the Screwcap Zone.[/size]
Screwcaps in their pure form (undamaged), when presented to the coil vertically, will normally DISC out as we expect them to. That is, just below Cu cent range, somewhere along with those Stinkin Zincers. But they can be manufactured with variances and so may be off somewhat.
Too, they can be squished or mangled and then they can offer several possibilities to the DISC circuitry. They tend to overload when shallow, too, so your detector is masked by that, as well.
In fact, that is probably the best way to know thats what you are dealing with - by their size, when compared to concise, sharp coin signatures.
Too, a distinct possibility is that there could have been something else nearby (within 2-3") that was good and you were getting mixed results.
Did you catch the use of words like "tend to," "possibilites," "somewhat," and "variables." The point is, there are no absolutes, my friend (if you could produce THAT for us, your fortune would be assured!). But there are many, many variables and to do more than expect "good odds" in terms of precise ID is foolhardy.
The Tesoro line has always been one of the best DISC instruments out there. They are normally sharp-edged to the point of actually being reliable the majority of the time. I've used them for years and that hasn't changed. I am sure your basic Cibola is no different.
And that is what it is, a basic detector. I would like to suggest something radical here, sort of a "working with the detector, not against it," thing. Start training yourself away from twiddling that DISC knob all the time. Merely set it and forget it. Dial it to the notch below nickel and dig all signals that sound good when swept slowly, smoothly and methodically. Yes youll find lots of tabs and other crap - - - allright, twiddle it a far as pulltab range, but only now and then.
The dreaded screwcaps will soon give themselves away as being large and signalling long after a good coin dissappears. But dig em anyway -My most interesting gold find last year was a full row of front teeth, 18K! Large and heavy, I found it with my Vaquero, in a park littered with screwcaps.
Wanna guess where it DISC'ed out at when I tested it at the hole side? Dead in the Screwcap Zone.[/size]
Thanks DavHut, very informative makes alot of sense. I have always wondered why people get detectors (whatever brand) with the TID's/all the bells & whistles/etc. and say they go by the sound of the target and ignore what the display is reading and dig all. Thanks everyone for all your responces. Steve.
How deep do you believe the vaquero will pick up on average. Yesterday I dug some 58 cal bullets that were about 4-5 inches deep. I felt like they were at max depth under the conditions. The gave a good 2 way signal 1 way and no signal at 90 degrees. I was runnung high disc in heavy trash with the sensitivity cranked up.
How deep do you believe the vaquero will pick up on average? Yesterday I dug some 58 cal bullets that were about 4-5 inches deep. I felt like they were at max depth under the conditions. They gave a good 2 way signal 1 way and no signal at 90 degrees. I was runnung high disc in heavy trash with the sensitivity cranked up.
JHM,
I believe you will get the same response in disc mode on any cylindrically shaped object. The higher the disc, the more pronounced.
In all metal this will/should not happen at all.
Try this at home. Take a wooden or plastic scrub brush and place it on a piece of ground that has little to no "reactive" substances in the ground beneath it, bristles up. I like to use a large cardboard box as a table. Now lay a a good sized wedding band flat on the bristles, sweep over it. Nice sound, right? Now place the ring on edge in the bristles so that it is standing on edge and swing first across the faces and then along its "equator". Try it in AM mode and then in DISC mode and start to crank up the DISC. Do the same with your bullets.
You can take this further, now lay an iron nail along side of it, or over it or under it and around it, add a few nails one at a time and see what happens.
In the field there can be any kind of junk in the hole right next to where we were digging that skews the signal in any which way also. How many of us check a hole in AM mode after a strange reading that gave us a good find?
As for depth. My very first find with my Vaquum was a victory nickle at 8". I have hunted areas where nothing came up from more than 4-5" down and I have hauled out crumpled foil from more than 8". Dimes in hot, wet sand from 10". It is a crap shoot.
If you are hunting junky sites, get the 5.75 coil, if you can. It is a great coil. I prefer it to the stock coil for park hunting.
Take care and good luck.
I believe you will get the same response in disc mode on any cylindrically shaped object. The higher the disc, the more pronounced.
In all metal this will/should not happen at all.
Try this at home. Take a wooden or plastic scrub brush and place it on a piece of ground that has little to no "reactive" substances in the ground beneath it, bristles up. I like to use a large cardboard box as a table. Now lay a a good sized wedding band flat on the bristles, sweep over it. Nice sound, right? Now place the ring on edge in the bristles so that it is standing on edge and swing first across the faces and then along its "equator". Try it in AM mode and then in DISC mode and start to crank up the DISC. Do the same with your bullets.
You can take this further, now lay an iron nail along side of it, or over it or under it and around it, add a few nails one at a time and see what happens.
In the field there can be any kind of junk in the hole right next to where we were digging that skews the signal in any which way also. How many of us check a hole in AM mode after a strange reading that gave us a good find?
As for depth. My very first find with my Vaquum was a victory nickle at 8". I have hunted areas where nothing came up from more than 4-5" down and I have hauled out crumpled foil from more than 8". Dimes in hot, wet sand from 10". It is a crap shoot.
If you are hunting junky sites, get the 5.75 coil, if you can. It is a great coil. I prefer it to the stock coil for park hunting.
Take care and good luck.
have always wondered why people get detectors (whatever brand) with the TID's/all the bells & whistles/etc. and say they go by the sound of the target and ignore what the display is reading and dig all.
For the same reason folks get 4WD vehicles and never take them off the pavement, I suppose....
Also, some top of the line models do get exceptional depth and offer other clues beside visual ones.
For the same reason folks get 4WD vehicles and never take them off the pavement, I suppose....
Also, some top of the line models do get exceptional depth and offer other clues beside visual ones.
I will try that test and see how it responds. I know it takes time with a new detector to learn how to hunt deep. I went through the same thing with my Quattro. When I first got the Vaquero, I read a post about air test. I tried mine to see how it would do. It got 10 inches on a penny. The other day I changed the battery even though it still checked good. Now it gets about 13+ inches. I really like the way it handles trash, I just wonder how much the 5.75 will cut the depth.
What Pete said - again. Im telling you this guy is getting good, aint he?
It IS a crap shoot, but there are some common things, too.
- Youll get deeper hits in moist ground.
- Ditto for ground that has low mineralization.
- Discrimination DOES affect depth if its cranked too far.
Methodical sweeps that overlap well will get you more depth (well not really... its just that if there IS anything to be found, you have a better chance of putting your coil over it.)
- Gain run at max (without falsing) will have an edge.
- Hyper Tuning will bring weak signals to the fore.
- Test. Test. Test. Make every run a learning experience. Learn your conditions before you hunt and catalog every find in terms of:
DISC setting
SENS setting
Ground conditions
TRASH Quotient
Here's another idea. Get a little sticky bit of tape or perhaps a strip of label material and write these words on it: "Beep and dig." Now adhere it to the very top of your faceplate as a reminder.
But, since none of that is likely to be the answer you wanted, lets try this. I dug a quarter at a measured 10-11" not long ago, with my Golden uMax, in mild ground conditions at a trash laden site. It gave a clean clear signal, with little doubt that something good was down there.I should think that could be achieved with a Cibola, too.
Remember, its those smooth, soft, repeatable sounds that indicate good targets at depth.
It IS a crap shoot, but there are some common things, too.
- Youll get deeper hits in moist ground.
- Ditto for ground that has low mineralization.
- Discrimination DOES affect depth if its cranked too far.
Methodical sweeps that overlap well will get you more depth (well not really... its just that if there IS anything to be found, you have a better chance of putting your coil over it.)
- Gain run at max (without falsing) will have an edge.
- Hyper Tuning will bring weak signals to the fore.
- Test. Test. Test. Make every run a learning experience. Learn your conditions before you hunt and catalog every find in terms of:
DISC setting
SENS setting
Ground conditions
TRASH Quotient
Here's another idea. Get a little sticky bit of tape or perhaps a strip of label material and write these words on it: "Beep and dig." Now adhere it to the very top of your faceplate as a reminder.
But, since none of that is likely to be the answer you wanted, lets try this. I dug a quarter at a measured 10-11" not long ago, with my Golden uMax, in mild ground conditions at a trash laden site. It gave a clean clear signal, with little doubt that something good was down there.I should think that could be achieved with a Cibola, too.
Remember, its those smooth, soft, repeatable sounds that indicate good targets at depth.
You bring up an interesting observation about batteries....hmmmm I will get back to that shortly. Try the nail test from H, E, double hockey sticks....
I learned this from Jeff at Middlesex Detector Sales, place a silver dime on a target free spot, and start surrounding it with iron nails one at a time. Make sure that you set your disc to just knock out the nails first! After each nail, swing across the coin form every imaginable direction, take notes if you want and pay attention to the orientation of the iron with respect to where you don't get a signal or do get a signal, whichever you prefer.
Once the coin has 4 nails around it start covering the coin with one nail and then another at 90 deg to the 5th nail. Keep masking the coin until you can no longer get a good repeatable blip from one direction. You will be amazed at how far you can go until the coin is gone. YMMV depending on the machine.
Save the Vaquum for last, trust me on this one! A modification to this test is to place the nails closer and farther away from the coin.
As for the batteries and depth, you are spot on. I was noticing what I would call inconsistant behaviour of my V. The batteries beeped 5 times I should still be ok? NO, not if you are hunting deep. Anything less than 6 beeps and you will see depth loss. Now I am aware that the power curves of batteries vary, and am wondering if some of the more exotic rechargeables will perform better than good alkalines. I have all winter to work on this. A photo shop owner told me that many rechargebales are much better than alkalines for maintaining peak performance right up until they deplete.
Barring that I was thinking that a 9V power pack made up of AAs might not work well also.
Dig if you can 'cause I can't.
I learned this from Jeff at Middlesex Detector Sales, place a silver dime on a target free spot, and start surrounding it with iron nails one at a time. Make sure that you set your disc to just knock out the nails first! After each nail, swing across the coin form every imaginable direction, take notes if you want and pay attention to the orientation of the iron with respect to where you don't get a signal or do get a signal, whichever you prefer.
Once the coin has 4 nails around it start covering the coin with one nail and then another at 90 deg to the 5th nail. Keep masking the coin until you can no longer get a good repeatable blip from one direction. You will be amazed at how far you can go until the coin is gone. YMMV depending on the machine.
Save the Vaquum for last, trust me on this one! A modification to this test is to place the nails closer and farther away from the coin.As for the batteries and depth, you are spot on. I was noticing what I would call inconsistant behaviour of my V. The batteries beeped 5 times I should still be ok? NO, not if you are hunting deep. Anything less than 6 beeps and you will see depth loss. Now I am aware that the power curves of batteries vary, and am wondering if some of the more exotic rechargeables will perform better than good alkalines. I have all winter to work on this. A photo shop owner told me that many rechargebales are much better than alkalines for maintaining peak performance right up until they deplete.
Barring that I was thinking that a 9V power pack made up of AAs might not work well also.
Dig if you can 'cause I can't.
Steve missouri
New member
SkiWhiz: Some of the screwcaps have a large percentage of aluminum in them, some 100 percent, to my knowledge, every detector made has trouble with these. Tesoro's do an excellent job, but do not knock out all of the screwcaps. Over the years I have used over 50 different detectors, they have all had some problems, knocking out this type of screwcap. HH Steve
[quote DavHut][size=small]
Screwcaps in their pure form (undamaged), when presented to the coil vertically, will normally DISC out as we expect them to. That is, just below Cu cent range, somewhere along with those Stinkin Zincers. But they can be manufactured with variances and so may be off somewhat.
Too, they can be squished or mangled and then they can offer several possibilities to the DISC circuitry. They tend to overload when shallow, too, so your detector is masked by that, as well.
In fact, that is probably the best way to know thats what you are dealing with - by their size, when compared to concise, sharp coin signatures.
[/size][/quote]
In my opinion, a detector is built to read objects that appear to be coins. Aluminum screwcaps are highly conductive and flattened ones are even more so. They may appear to the machine as quarters or even half dollars and have a tendancy to fool the circuits into giving it a reading as a coin size object. Don't be discouraged, just dig it and get it out of your way.
Screwcaps in their pure form (undamaged), when presented to the coil vertically, will normally DISC out as we expect them to. That is, just below Cu cent range, somewhere along with those Stinkin Zincers. But they can be manufactured with variances and so may be off somewhat.
Too, they can be squished or mangled and then they can offer several possibilities to the DISC circuitry. They tend to overload when shallow, too, so your detector is masked by that, as well.
In fact, that is probably the best way to know thats what you are dealing with - by their size, when compared to concise, sharp coin signatures.
[/size][/quote]
In my opinion, a detector is built to read objects that appear to be coins. Aluminum screwcaps are highly conductive and flattened ones are even more so. They may appear to the machine as quarters or even half dollars and have a tendancy to fool the circuits into giving it a reading as a coin size object. Don't be discouraged, just dig it and get it out of your way.
Pete, I dont think you will find better performance than with fresh Alkalines. But keep us posted.
As for masking. I saw a neat test on the Fisher 1236 X2. An english silver groat or something like that about half the size of a dime was placed in the middle of a small donut of iron filings. There was probably less than a 1/4" clearance all around. The detector picked up the coin. Thats separation!
As for masking. I saw a neat test on the Fisher 1236 X2. An english silver groat or something like that about half the size of a dime was placed in the middle of a small donut of iron filings. There was probably less than a 1/4" clearance all around. The detector picked up the coin. Thats separation!
You must live in the north. I'm in Tn. and seldom does the ground freeze here. I'm glad to here that the V is good with iron. I mainly got it to hunt around old house places. It's size and weight makes it easy to pack on an ATV. I have had better luck with the alkalines. I tried rechargables on my other machine and what I found is they will run down even when there not being used. Also rechargables operate at a lower voltage AAs run at 1.2volts vs 1.5volts for alkalines. This makes them run down quicker because they pull more amps to get the same power. This is ok for low power devices. The detector companies make rechargables that are rated at the same voltage but they are expensive.
Yup, the great white north it is, we got nailed with 3 feet of snow last week, overnight to boot.
Not all rechargebales are equal, I found a website that sells lots of rechargebales, the voltages and mah varies quite a bit, the higher the voltage the higher the $$$ to be sure.
I used to work with a fellow out of the states and what he missed most about home was Tenesee, must be nice there!
Not all rechargebales are equal, I found a website that sells lots of rechargebales, the voltages and mah varies quite a bit, the higher the voltage the higher the $$$ to be sure.
I used to work with a fellow out of the states and what he missed most about home was Tenesee, must be nice there!
I like it pretty good. I'm between Shiloh TN and Corinth,Ms. Soon as deer season closes I'm going to start relic hunting. It's unsafe to be walking around in the woods right now. Some people deer hunt with a gun in one hand and a bottle in the other. Can't imagine 3 feet of snow. We haven't had enough snow to use a sled in 4 years.