Can You Help Explain What is Going on?

[grumpyolman]

I was detecting an old-new school today. I got a half dozen hits that all acted the same way. The tone was right. They were repeatable from both directions, The ferrous conductive numbers were within the limits explained in Andy's new book,,,and they were all at least half way down the depth gauge scale. SOme of the deepest I have looked for. The same thing happened on all of them. I'd pinpoint, pull the flap, and start to dig. Put the dirt on a cloth next to the hole and went at it. I went as deep as I could go with the Predator and checked everywhere in the hole, bottom sides flap, and I never could get a signal again. It wasn't in the dirt I took out. I even checked it with my Garrett pinpointer thinking there might be something haywire with my X-1. Rechecked the flap and nothing. Put all the dirt back in the hole and closed the flap, and I'd get the same reading I did before I started to dig. One time it was one of those phantom holes. I'd had a signal with both the coil and the probe and it ended up sort of dissapating. On all the others I never did get the X-1 to verify there was something in the hole. I know that sometimes you have to take a fair amount of dirt out of the hole before the X-1 will sense it. Dang!! That was frustrating as I knew there was some silver and maybe Indians that I couldn't find. The new school is built right next to the gym...which was the old one room school house originally. Regards...Jim

 

[Erik in NJ]

Jim, I'm not sure if they fixed this on the E-Trac or not, but with the Explorer a small target like that quarter-dime (cut up that is) that I found read quite deep with the Explorer when in reality it was only about 2"-3" deep, while it read at least 6"-8". Did you check the plug thoroughly for a small item nearer to the surface? I hope they have fixed this with the E-Trac as it's one of the things that I dislike about the Explorer depth reading - they don't differentiate size...tiny shallow items read deep and big deep items read middle to shallow. From your report it definitely sounds like there was something there - just eluding you....maybe someone cut up something into small pieces and scattered it there. In my case it was a silver dime where the two smaller pieces only weighed 0.5 grams.

 

[Steve from Ohio]

Hello Jim.

I've run into that also. I was detecting an old school (1912) that was updated a few years ago. I got a real good nice solid 12-47 (a probable quarter) indicated at about 10 inches. I dug down over a foot and then...... nothing! My Pistol Probe did not register anything either.

So I covered up the hole and ran the E-Trac over the area again and got the 12-47 again! There must be something there.......

So I went and got a long spade shovel, came back to the spot and dug down far deeper (almost 2 feet) than my hand digger could go and I found buried a large piece of aluminum from when they had put aluminum flashing around the windows. It seems that when they did that, they would just let the aluminum drop and not pick it up. They also must have done some excavating when they were doing this because I found gravel buried around the aluminum.

I've run into that a few times at this school.

So I figured that the E-Trac as powerful as it is, read the large piece of aluminum as best it could and gave a report of 12-47. But seeing as it was so deep and so big, it read at 10 inches which from what I have been reading, is common for larger objects to read shallower than they really are because the E-Trac engineers set up the machine to give more accurate readings on coins which is what most people are looking for.

Not sure if that is what you are running in to, but for me it put my mind at east to know that the E-Trac was going down 2 feet to find that aluminum. Awesome machine.

 

[mike - in]

turned out to be deep large and very rusted nails or wire off to the side of the hole after pinpointing. I found them after reaming out the sides of the holes almost 2" more before finding them. Don't have a clue why they gave such good signals but after finding them and pulling them out and rechecking the hole the signal was gone. I was hoping for a good target that was next to the junk but it wasn't there. I'm sure the audio signal was probably just because I'm not used to differentiating the iron signals from high good signals yet.

Another time it was an extremely small good target almost on top of the ground that disappeared from the hole and the plug until I turned the plug back face up and there it was. Next time you get a signal like that try checking the top of the plug.

Mike

 

[Erik in NJ]

I guess they didn't fix the target size issue with regard to the depth meter - I think some people know tricks to help with this, but I am still fooled by small targets and large deep ones.....God, I wish they had addressed this! Rusty bent nails always seem to pinpoint off from where they are I have found.

 

[grumpyolman]

At least I feel a lot better knowing that I am not the only one who has this happening. Not that I'd wish it on anyone else. The concept of the large object buried deep makes sense. Dang though!! The sound is just like a good coin and the readings are the same. Maybe the process is to open it up and dig down about 4" and if the X-1 doesn't beep, it's probably large stuff really deep and go on to the next spot. It's good info that not even the pistol probe 'saw' it either. Know that is really a hot unit. Thanks for sharing what's happened to you. I've done enough stupid things detecting to know about the old hide the coin trick at the top of the plug and it wasn't there. Maybe there will be more good ideas from other users....Jim

 

[Beachcomber]

IT's always been an issue as no detector accurately determine size of the target except maybe the Garret with the curved coil. What adds to the problem today is that today's detectors are much more sensitive to small targets than machines from years ago. So it wasn't as noticeable before. Now we have machines that not only detect big targets very deep but also very small targets near the surface. But over time you will learn to tell the difference. One of the keys is the size of the audio in Pinpoint Mode. A shallow small target has a very tiny signal width. A large deep target while having a very weak audio signal just like a small target still has a wider signal in pinpoint than a small surface target. And after a lot of practice you will be able to hear the size difference in Discrimination Mode. To me it's pretty easy to tell the difference and there is no "issue" to be dealt with as you call it. It just takes practice, I may get a lot more practice with all the tiny targets I dig at the beach so large deep targets are very easy for me to tell from tiny targets near the surface. I have now after 8 years reached a point where I can tell if the target is a shallow tiny target or a deep coin sized target. Also what may help me is that I haven't hunted in Flute mode with the E-trac. I got away from Flute mode in the Explorer about 6 months after I bought mine back in 2000 and have never used it since. With the Explorer I always hunted in Audio Mode 2 and with the E-trac I hunt in the audio "Smooth" mode. Could be this is why I don't have an issue with depth versus size with either machine. JMHO

HH

Beachcomber

 

[jeff & Maria]

Switch to quick mode (all metal) see what it looks like on the screen. Lift the coil 4-5 inches off the ground, still hear it? lift a bit more. If you are still hearing a good signal with an air gap of 6 inches you are probably finding an aluminum can buried down 10 inches or so. But, remember there are exceptions to this.

 

[txbluesman]

I had a very similar problem at a park across the street from an old school. In my case, it turned out to be those metal thumb tacks that were rusted and buried about 1/4" down. When I flipped the flap, I could no longer located it with either my X1 or with the coil. But once I replaced the dirt & flap, I would get the signal again. I then used my X1 to check the surface and I was able to located the tack. After the second or third time of this happening to me, I started running my X1 over the surface prior to digging - if I got a signal it was almost always one of those tacks.

 

[jbow]

There may be some really small piece of metal in the very top, in the grass. Check that closely.

J

 

[scott (wi)]

Were there little red ants in the hole? With my explorer, little red ant colonies will sound like silver coins. I am not kidding. It's the type of ant that has a perfumey smell to them. It gets to the point sometimes that if I dig a hole and there are little red ants in there, I don't even bother probing it. The tone is almost, but not quite, like a coin.