Can one of you vision owners do this test for me

[Bugalooob]

I made a topic in the Etrac forum "I think theres a huge problem with the Etrac", can you do the test I explained there with your machine?

Thanks

 

[bfodnes]

Dont have a vision yet but suspect it will be no problem. My other Whites detectors have no problem with this. Especially with a DD coil like the Minelab.
The Minelab FBS detectors need some time to recover and that is what you see. It is nothing wrong, it is designed that way. You only have to understand it.

What your test is showing you is that you have to adjust your swing speed to a slower pace to make your detector keep up. My Explorer is just the same and it is no secret as there is tests on youtube showing how slow they are at recovery. The Minelab gurus in England dont look at the meter at all and use monotone. That is probably the best help on fields but i understand if you think that dont suit you...

Either You must adjust your swing speed down or you must use a different detector.

 

[spdnj]

Post a picture of how you have the nail and dime laid out exactly (use a ruler), I have both detectors and will run the test test side by side for you.

 

[go-rebels]

spdnj, can you perform my test listed under the "Dreaded Iron Question" thread?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I have done this and a hundred other tests and not much difference in performance between the Vision and E-Trac with stock DD coils being used

.It makes a lot of difference in the nail you use for one thing.Is it a old cut nail or a later type?How rusty is said nail?You stated length but not dia.

None of the top machines do all that great with a very rusty nail pointed at and in direct line with a coin in disc. modes.

But then how many nails are located in the exact way you describe in the field.A much more meaningfull test is with nails located in varied directions in relation to the coin with 1 or more nails at same time.

Back to actual test as you described in your post on the E-Trac forum.My E-Trac does a lot better than what you describe but must not be swung to fast.The Vision can go a little faster but the audio responce is not as smoothe as the E-Trac.The E-Trac in my tests does a little better when you do the short side to side wiggle with coil directly over the quarter,but in all fairness that is with several hundred hours experience on the E-Trac and only a few hours on the Vision.I am starting to get a better handle on the Visions audio and that will help a lot in the field.

I have made some good finds with both machines with an incredible amount of rusty iron/nails in close proximity to them.I use a uni-probe that picks up all metal up to 6" and it is a real eye opener to what is in the plug/hole with good targets.

Now I have a question? How many other machines have you used and for how many hours of use as a basis for asuming the E-Trac has a big problem?
This is not a wiseguy remark but a serious question as we all know experience is by far the best teacher,Ray.

 

[Brett]

I made a topic in the Etrac forum "I think theres a huge problem with the Etrac", can you do the test I explained there with your machine?

Thanks

Can you answer everyone's questions first as to how fast you are swinging your coil? It will make a big difference in iron. Basically, when you start getting nulling, you have to slow down to a crawl and sniff out the silver amongst the iron. Basically on a left to right swing you should be anywhere from 1 - 2 seconds minimum.

I did a similar test before with the SE Pro, and I believe the E-Trac could easy beat the performance I saw. What I saw sounded better that what you described in your test.

First of all, here's my test setup:

Here's my results:

My Explorer SE Pro's settings:
Sensitivity: 20 Manual
Threshold: Just audible
Response: Normal
Sounds: Conduct
Variability, Volume, Limits: 10
Recovery: Fast and Deep both OFF
Discrimination Pattern: Wide open, with iron mask set to 26 (6 clicks from all metal)
Smartfind Screen Active

If I ran my detector LEFT to RIGHT down the length of board, the SE Pro DD coil seemed to cut between the two nails at 1" from the dime. I could hear the dime very repeatedly at 4". 6" started to get a touch broken, but I would still dig it. 8" was not very repeatable, but it was there. You could worry it out of the ground easily. I might add that when I looked at the Digital display, the numbers were indicating higher FER and COND values. Typically I would think this was a nail, but the key was the SOUND. It sounded good.

My sweep speed had to be at MOST one second down the length of the board. Slower helped find the dime in the first place. Then When I had a heartbeat on where exactly it was, I could spend more time in that 2" wide area trying to get it to play a song.

Silver quarters and halves helped greatly to "get the word out" that there was in fact silver there.

If I ran my coil LEFT to RIGHT at a 45

 

[bfodnes]

I have a small issue with that test with nails and coins lying so close together. Maybe i am wrong but.

Seems to me that the result we get in that one is rather the total cunductivity of the 3 targets together break through the " iron treshold " disc level...

Have you tried with one nail and one coin and let the detector lock on to the nail before sweeping across the coin...here is where I see very different results from different detectors.

 

[Brett]

I have a small issue with that test with nails and coins lying so close together. Maybe i am wrong but.

Seems to me that the result we get in that one is rather the total cunductivity of the 3 targets together break through the " iron treshold " disc level...

Have you tried with one nail and one coin and let the detector lock on to the nail before sweeping across the coin...here is where I see very different results from different detectors.

Nope, it's definitely signaling on the dime alone... because if you get the DD "Blade" crossing the dime and the nails (coil turned 45 degrees), it's totally nulling. Dime removed, it nulls. Dime only is obviously good. I have tried the one nail before but I can't remember what happened exactly...

 

[landman]

Could you elaborate just a bit on why they use "monotone" while NOT looking at their meters display? Thanks. Very interesting.

 

[bfodnes]

Its plain simple. Go slow as you can and dig every hit outside your disc level that seem to break through the nulling from different angles. Regardless of ID and jumping, just the sound that will be the same on any hit above disv level.

Remember some of the european finds are very small and very close to iron so you cant get a good id anyway, that is the clue to this method.

It is about trying to get the absolute advantage from the machine in the worst situations and some are very good at it.

 

[Larry (IL)]

What does this testing have to do with the V3? Let's make it relevant or it gets moved to the Explorer forum.

 

[go-rebels]

.It makes a lot of difference in the nail you use for one thing.Is it a old cut nail or a later type?How rusty is said nail?You stated length but not dia.

None of the top machines do all that great with a very rusty nail pointed at and in direct line with a coin in disc. modes.

But then how many nails are located in the exact way you describe in the field.A much more meaningfull test is with nails located in varied directions in relation to the coin with 1 or more nails at same time..

My nail is like the big crusty one shown up-close in the bottom pic of the collection of (3) in this thread. I estimate the nail to be 1/8"-5-32" in diameter, including rust.

I only have one nail buried in my field, with the surrounding area "sanitized" so as to not to contribute any spurious signals. I chose this setup becuase it is easy to remember, easy to duplicate and easy to describe.

 

[Bugalooob]

-- moved topic --

 

[Larry (IL)]

so I moved the SE test here.

 

[bfodnes]

It will be the same for all detectors, but good call to move it...

 

[Carolina Phil]

n/t

 

[kered]

Dont have a vision yet but suspect it will be no problem. My other Whites detectors have no problem with this. Especially with a DD coil like the Minelab.
The Minelab FBS detectors need some time to recover and that is what you see. It is nothing wrong, it is designed that way. You only have to understand it.

What your test is showing you is that you have to adjust your swing speed to a slower pace to make your detector keep up. My Explorer is just the same and it is no secret as there is tests on youtube showing how slow they are at recovery. The Minelab gurus in England dont look at the meter at all and use monotone. That is probably the best help on fields but i understand if you think that dont suit you...

Either You must adjust your swing speed down or you must use a different detector.

Dont know what gives you that idea but i don't know anyone that uses monotone <-- maybe that should be multitone and was a typo, as to the display, thats not true either

 

[NealNoIN]

n/t

 

[Brett]

I was getting pretty good seperation, but fast ON just seems to break up the audio more. It's already hard to hear with the iron there... so whichever way makes it sound sweeter was the way I thought worked best.

I guess this thread has been derailed... it was originally comparing the E-Trac and the Vision, and now it's lost in the Explorer section. IIt should have stayed in the Vision forum. Oh well.

 

[sangamon]

...maybe you're just not doing it right.

i feel your pain...there's a lot to learn, and lessons don't come easy.