Can Garrett Detectors even COMPETE with the Latest & Greatest?????

[silverseeker 2]

Seems like Garrett isn't doing so well these days. Maybe it's me.
No Real break thrus in a New Detector. They bought out Whites supposedly and nothing new in years worth a Darn. If they had brains they would have DUPLICATED the TRX pinpointer and Sold a ton.of them.They came out with what an Apex and 24K Detector. Not knocking their products but just not up to Par with
what's out there these days. Yes I owned and still own some
Garrett Detectors but nothing new after Acquiring Whites.
Why did they even Buy Whites out????? Total Waste of an Investment in my eyes.... What are your thoughts about
where Garrett's ranking these days.... I don't SEE much of a
Future for Garrett on the Hobby end of Business. JMHO
silverseeker 2

 

[sube]

Seems like Garrett isn't doing so well these days. Maybe it's me.
No Real break thrus in a New Detector. They bought out Whites supposedly and nothing new in years worth a Darn. If they had brains they would have DUPLICATED the TRX pinpointer and Sold a ton.of them.They came out with what an Apex and 24K Detector. Not knocking their products but just not up to Par with
what's out there these days. Yes I owned and still own some
Garrett Detectors but nothing new after Acquiring Whites.
Why did they even Buy Whites out????? Total Waste of an Investment in my eyes.... What are your thoughts about
where Garrett's ranking these days.... I don't SEE much of a
Future for Garrett on the Hobby end of Business. JMHO
silverseeker 2

You know it's seems weird that the Chinese have not made a copy of it TRX when they made copy's of the garret carrot . ???
Then when you say latest and greatest enlighten me all I see is the ability to adjust all parameters of the machines we already have but the tech did not change .
Now the deus did advance the ergonomics of the machine love swinging it and back in the day if I had more money which I did not . I would of been using a whites 63 tr I dodge that bullet .
The only things that really changed was to give a cleaner signal from coil to machine and maybe emi mitigation ability to noise cancel .
But the tech is the same they may tell you it's the latest and best-est but I only judge what I see .
Then again maybe garret bought out whites for some other projects they are working on that are more lucrative than pin pointers . sube

 

[Picketwire]

Garrett ATX is so old school, right? Not knocking their products but they are not up to par? I would consider that knocking.
Here's what Steve Herschbach says about it:
"Honest opinions well stated don't need to stir a hornet's nest. It is the various side commentary where things tend to go astray. I am a big fan of dispassionate observation and leave the rest out.Does not seem a big deal to me. VLF technology hit max depth by 1990 and probably earlier. The only gains since have been in target id accuracy at depth and recovery speed between adjacent targets. Better packaging. But for just hitting a dime at depth my old Compass Gold Scanner Pro in 1990 was as good as anything since.
Same deal with PI in my opinion. The Minelab SD series in the late 1990's hits large deep gold about as far as it can be hit. The SD series was not that hot on small gold but that helped it on big gold since it is insensitive to many ground and hot rock issues also. Every Minelab PI model since has focused on improving threshold stability and sensitivity to small nuggets or tackling specific hot rock/salt issues. The GPZ further exploits PI weakness on porous or specimen gold, but I am not one of those that thinks it offers any significant improvement on large solid, sluggy gold in most normal circumstances. As far as the big picture goes I think the bulk of the tech maxed out in the 1990's. What has gone on since is refinement and machines targeting specific weak areas of prior machines. But max depth on larger targets is a very tough nut to crack and I honestly don't pay much attention to claims made in that area. I avoid making such claims myself. The gains if any are so small and so target and site dependent it always boils down to opinionated hair splitting arguments - a waste of time".

 

[liondogs]

I agree that Garrett has not come out with anything groundbreaking but what manufacturer has? As a few have pointed out the underlying technology has not changed in 25 years or more. Until the technology changes all you are going to see are minor changes to the feature set of XYZ detector and put in a different package. To develop new technology a company would need to pour a lot of money into R & D. Since metal detecting is not a growth business the companies probably do not see the ROI penciling out.

I do agree with the original poster in that Garrett could have done more with Whites. I would have liked to see a new TRX produced but Garrett probably thought it would take sales away from their orange carrot so why bother? I think Garrett bought Whites for any patents they might have had and to prevent them from being acquired by a competitor. They probably did not pay Whites a big sum of money as the only thing they got was the IP. They did not buy the factory, tooling, spare parts, warranty obligations, etc. They did not even agree to service and repair for a fee the existing Whites customer's detectors. They did not want anything but the IP in my opinion.

 

[MuddyMo]

There's no reason Garrett or the others couldn't make a better detector using the technology that's out there today. Things like: weight, balance, materials, screens, batteries, tones, types of adjustments, programming, package deals and better prices. But then they sell a new detector (Apex) with all the design, research and marketing but not make it waterproof and price it uncompetitively high. I'm not too optimistic about things for now. You can only compete so long on name recognition.

 

[liondogs]

MuddyMo, respectfully the things you list have nothing to do with the underlying technology of today's detectors. Today's detectors that are not PI detectors use VLF technology as the method to detect a target. This technology is 25 years or more old and reached its apex in the early 90's.
At the time VLF technology was invented and adopted it was a game changer over the older BFO technology of the time and offered much better detection depth not to mention target ID and discrimination which BFO technology could not do. There has been no equivalent leap in technology since then like there was from BFO to VLF. The ability of a modern detector to go significantly deeper and reliably ID a coin at depth has not changed much in the last 25 years or more. Because of this many older coins have sunk below the ability of today's detectors to detect them.

I do agree that Garrett could have done a little better on the Apex but overall it is a nice detector but no real breakthrough in design or performance like the original poster was alluding to.

 

[woodbutcher]

Garrett does make a quality machine, the AT pro is still a workhorse . I see these new machines coming out left and right, bought and tried almost all. And i've pulled a few keepers from my beat up spots, but when I think back was it worth it to spend a thousand buck or better on those machines just to pull a few mercs and some clad that the at pro, f75 etc missed? My answer is no..Those newer machines are gone and I don't even look back. I much prefer older tek, simple tek before updatable machines,, when companies got it right the first time before rolling out inventory. ..To each they're own , it's a good thing for me the machines I like are considered outdated and cheap.

 

[MuddyMo]

Liondogs, I know all that but am saying if Garrett wants to compete using 25 yo vlf tech (like everyone else) then they should come out with something to compete with the Deus 2 or a great bargain like the Legend. The Apex WASN'T it.

 

[woodbutcher]

Muddy MO

Liondogs, I know all that but am saying if Garrett wants to compete using 25 yo vlf tech (like everyone else) then they should come out with something to compete with the Deus 2 or a great bargain like the Legend. The Apex WASN'T it.

I’ve never tried the apex, although I wanted to I just wasn’t seeing it as a better machine as the at pro,at least from the videos..I often wondered why Garrett never came out with somthing to trump these other companies myself, they sure have the money and the technical support to do so..My best guess is they just figured their brand is so large they don’t need to. I don’t know the numbers but I’d bet Garrett still holds they’re own in sales on they’re current lineup,that could possibly be why they haven’t produced anything new?

 

[Seagullplayer]

The market for recreational metal detecting is small. For the highest priced cutting edge machines is even smaller.
New product development costs money, to make a sizable leap forward in this market would cost big money.
The Garrett line up is well respected. And still selling, hard to argue with that.

Most people don't have the permissions to hunt 300 year old pirate treasure. You don't need a high end unit for granny's back yard
or the local ball park. The average user is pulling clad out. Maybe Garrett has their eye set on those sales. And they have units in the
market to satisfy them.

My old ACE 250 will pull all the clad out of a tot lot you would want to "dig". I bought my Apex because the controls worked so
much like my other ACE machines. Didn't even feel like I was learning a new machine. Perhaps they focus on keeping satisfied customers
rather than competing with the other guys. And cleaning up in the security business sure helps I would think.

I did read that some in the UK expect an Apex style AT later this year. But who knows, Even MF is not like going from
points to electronic ignition. I'm not sure the hobby as a whole is big enough to support whatever that would cost.

 

[Wild Willy]

What's so sad to me is that the USA was the inventor and leader for years in recreational detecting. Are there any American companies left that can rival Minelab and Nokta? Seems like the same thing happened with automobiles although we are in the game bigger than with detectors, if that makes sense. Has American tech. shifted to body/luggage detectors?

 

[markinswpa]

Seems like Garrett isn't doing so well these days. Maybe it's me.
No Real break thrus in a New Detector. They bought out Whites supposedly and nothing new in years worth a Darn. If they had brains they would have DUPLICATED the TRX pinpointer and Sold a ton.of them.They came out with what an Apex and 24K Detector. Not knocking their products but just not up to Par with
what's out there these days. Yes I owned and still own some
Garrett Detectors but nothing new after Acquiring Whites.
Why did they even Buy Whites out????? Total Waste of an Investment in my eyes.... What are your thoughts about
where Garrett's ranking these days.... I don't SEE much of a
Future for Garrett on the Hobby end of Business. JMHO
silverseeker 2

I read over on DP that Garrett has a new release coming this year. (Possibly this year ) It will be interesting to see what they come up with. The Apex didn't seem to fare very well so hopefully this one will be a game changer. SMF tech has just about topped out so I hope its just not another SMF late comer to add to the list of ones already available. C'mon Garrett.

 

[MuddyMo]

One thing we know for sure is it will be high priced. It seems most of their detectors are overpriced.

 

[oldkoot]

One thing we know for sure is it will be high priced. It seems most of their detectors are overpriced.

Well I will agree some of Garret's detectors are over priced

Personally as I said on another forum thread if Garrett comes out with a SMF that is at least as good as the Legend or equinox I will purchase one, as long as it is not like the Apex which I do feel is one of their overpriced detectors, along with the AT series

Garrett has the form factor down they could put a very good SMF software into the Axioms control pod and shafts and as long as it competed with the Legend or Equinox Line in capabilities that personally would be enough for me, make it water proof (heavy Rain proof)is al I need but for a lot I know they would want totally water proof I would purchase one, just because they are one of the last two American companies to still be existing

I made a purchase of a Axiom and for me personally the Axiom is probably the most ergonomically comfortable detector I have ever swung, or used yes with the Largest coil Garrett currently offers for the Axiom which is a 16x14 Mono and DD, it throws all that balance and nice feel out the window, but if they were to use that control pod and shaft system as well as the rechargeable battery system Garrett would have a very nice SMF detector

The Axiom runs pretty close to the GPX 6000 as Steve Hersbach says the Axiom is with in 10% of the capabilities of the 6000 which was close enough for me at almost half the cost of the 6000, who knows how close the Axiom will be if Garrett puts out an update for it, it may just end up being rite there with the GPX 6000 or maybe a little better

As far as technologies are concerned, I do not see any real advancements ever happening in my life time, but you just really never know what is up these Metal Detector manufactures sleeves.

 

[abcoin]

To me, it says a lot that Garrett still lists the GTI 2500 on its lineup of hobby detectors: https://garrett.com/sport/imaging-detectors/gti-2500

I used an AT Pro for years and loved it. Now, I use a Deus II. It definitely costs a lot more than a Pro, but even if you're on a limited budget, an ORX or one of the Nox machines can be had for the same price and offer better performance IMO.

The customer service at Garrett has also degraded. I briefly owned an AT Max and it ended up going to Garrett for a minor repair issue (you had to press one of the buttons hard to make it work). When Garrett got the machine, they verified the button issue but also claimed that the coil was broken, too, which sent the cost of the repairs to almost $200. (The machine was out of warranty, in fairness.) I never had any issue with the coil, so that interaction made me wonder if someone was trying to boost their internal goals/KPIs by selling me a new coil that I didn't need.

I agree that Garrett probably finds its security business more lucrative. It's hard to find a TSA checkpoint that doesn't have some Garrett products! I don't know what Garrett's finances look like, but it's hard to imagine that selling hobby machines through retail is as profitable as selling security wants and walk-through setups to the government.

 

[abcoin]

Also, it's not a product issue, but does anybody else remember last year around this time when the "Find of the Month" winner was a guy who claimed to have found a "seated liberty $5 gold piece" that he probably ordered on Alibaba? Garrett got dragged in the comments for that on Facebook and Instagram. Doesn't help the brand when you feature people who are clearly lying about their finds.

 

[DIG5050]

Garrett usually makes detectors that are fun and easy to use. Garrett sells what people still want to buy.

The Ace lineup detectors are good beginner machines.

I had a GTI2500 from about 20 years ago and sold it. It was difficult to use in a trashy park, and too heavy for me to swing.

The AT lineup must still sell well, but agree that the price is too high for what they are. I would not have one, but others do and like them, even though there are better options out there.

I detect with the Apex and the D2. Some detectorists comment on the high price of the Apex. At the time it was released, I believe it was the only other SMF detector besides ML offerings, and the Apex was priced below most of them. Since the offerings from Nokta and the release of the ML Xterra Pro, The Apex now seems lacking for the $ cost. I was hoping that Garrett would update the Apex with a some of the settings that I and others have asked for, so far nothing in over 2 yrs. Some firmware changes would make the Apex more of a contender considering now there are other offerings available at lower cost. It's still not too late for Garrett to update the Apex firmware with a few more features before the next product roll out.

Maybe a new Garrett detector will incorporate more advanced settings, the same fun factor, ease of use, ergonomics of the Apex, build quality and water proof capability of the AT series. That would be a winner for Garrett. Bring it on, Garrett.

 

[MuddyMo]

"....At the time it was released, I believe it was the only other SMF detector besides ML offerings, and the Apex was priced below most of them...."
But not the Minelab Vanquishes that were out and for less money. They were said by users of both to outperform the Apex.
I've used the Apex and like it but I too don't believe it is as good and it still cost more. As far as I know Garrett doesn't lower prices like Nokta but that's better than ML raisings theirs!

 

[Odanscoils]

What's so sad to me is that the USA was the inventor and leader for years in recreational detecting. Are there any American companies left that can rival Minelab and Nokta? Seems like the same thing happened with automobiles although we are in the game bigger than with detectors, if that makes sense. Has American tech. shifted to body/luggage detectors?

I've always wondered why Motorola never got into detectors.

 

[Tony-Ok]

We really don’t know what Garrett has going on as new products . They definitely don’t keep any open dialogue with any Youtubers. They do have other ventures going on, security detectors , just imagine having walk through detectors for many schools across the USA . Lots of crazies out there. Military contracts going on !! seems like a war going on somewhere in the world. Hobby detectors probably get push to the back burner. The economy is not that good . Timing of a new release due to economic conditions, It just might not be the right time. As far as Garrett purchasing Whites , well that might just be to keeping other (MD) manufactures from purchasing patents, information,technology that could be used in future development of Detectors. It would be nice to have a made in USA detector to purchase that is very competitive to ML. Nokta. XP ……… just some thoughts!! Tony