I'm heading to a CW site this weekend that has tons of bullets and buttons although the site is also loaded with old square nails...not much other junk in the ground. My question is, what would be the best settings for this site on my F70? I'm fairly new to this machine although I've done pretty good so far with it. This should be the best spot I've hunted for relics so far and want to avoid these nails. Thanks for your help!!
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Buttons, Bullets and Iron Nails...
- Thread starter thebig21
- Start date
Me too on the "I have no idea" list. Seems like some of the guys that use the Fishers for relic hunting would have some basic ideas. I am fairly new to Fisher machines having bought a new F75 in November. I would assume that if it you are in one of the really bad ground places in Va., that you would do a really complete ground balance, then use minimal disc., in 'motion all metal' with max sensitivity and a big coil. I have found that changing the frequency offsets a bit, from F1 to another higher number or lower as the case calls for, then it is a bit quieter and the numbers stabilize a bit better.
.
.
REVIER
Well-known member
You want setting and method advice?
Here is some.
Keep in mind everything I learned using the F70 so far took time and practice.
Nothing was magical but given enough time and practice I began to understand how to use each technique to my advantage.
This is how Sculley uses his F75 in iron.
The same settings can be used on the F70.
Most info written about settings for the T2 and the F75 will also pertain to the F70, except for the settings not available or built in, of course, but tones, sense disc and the rest of the basics will affect all 3 in a similar manner.
The standard elliptical goes pretty deep, the 11" DD F75 coil goes a bit deeper, the DD sniper could work pretty good but I would go with the big DD if you have one.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=4BFfAAkTQDg
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=KJOarwHFHm4
I had some experience hunting in a ridiculous infested site last year and I got pretty good at using something I call the blast through method.
All metal, all other settings maxed out but I came to understand later sense and thresh don't need to be totally maxed and can be set lower.
I looked for blocks of repeating or semi repeating higher numbers and dug every signal I saw that had those.
There was never one solid good signal here, only severe jumping because of the million nails and other large amount of iron from tiny to huge so every good target was really masked well.
It took hours to make sense of what I was seeing and hearing but eventually I got good enough to avoid all the masking iron, and ignore the high tones thrown off by rusty objects from several inches away by using the pinpoint button to zero in on where the actual iron was laying in relation to the high tones that seemed to be repeating in a different area.
This technique worked with 3 different coils.
This method take a lot of practice to master and you don't have the time but something to consider for the future.
This method works too.
Basically disc on 6 and use tone setting 1...monotone.
This also could take some practice but might be your best shot being your first time here with the F70.
A huge amount of technical stuff here but this is why it works.
F-75 Peak Performance - Disc '6' & mandatory 'monotone' relic hunting justification
When the F-75 is placed on a Disc setting of '6' and 'monotone'; This set-up config allows (under MOST circumstances) the best iron see-thru ability..... in locating non-ferrous targets in areas that are loaded with ferrous (usually nails) environments. The older the site....... the more nails will be present; subsequently, the more good targets will be masked. Most detectors will 'shut-down' under these scenarios. The F-75 (& T-2) are the only detectors currently available on the market that begins to tackle this type of (extremely common) scenario.... with some 'unmasking' success.
.... With F-75 Disc on '6' and 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, etc.... the ‘audio’ portion of the Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'...... will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'. What does this mean? = Any target that is between a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM for a multiplicity of reasonings. Now, any target that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked non-ferrous targets when multitones are selected. Said differently via utilization of a "extremely common occurrence" example;
----- Recently, I recovered a badly masked Barber dime. When I (first) detected this severely handicapped dime, the F-75 was in 'monotone', Disc '6', 'PF' and Sens on '99'. In monotone, the dime AUDIBLY sounded good. (( I was going to dig this target )). The VDI was terrible - would/could NOT lock on to anything close to resembling a highly conductive piece of silver. I then invoked 2-tone..... leaving ALL other settings alone. Now.... the dime was constantly audibly reporting as low-tone (iron-tone).....even as I rotated my body around target. The VDI was jumping all over the board…. mostly in the iron ID range. I made the decision to NOT recover the target, primarily due to low iron-tone..... and walked away. Several hours later, I decided to go back and recover this target (and MANY other similar responding targets)..... with F-75 back in 'monotone'. Results = One 2" nail, two 1/2" long nails..... and one 1893 'O' Barber dime. Yep; MOSTLY iron, but certainly not ALL iron. The 2-tone mode did not lie. Justification = The composite of the 4 targets (3 nails & one dime) were higher in conductivity than any one of the nails individually...... but TOTAL conductive composite was HIGHER than any nail (or combination of nails) would have cumulatively registered. Because I (and the detector) knew that the detected target (suspected co-locate/composite of multiple targets under coil) were higher than the conductivity of most nails... yet STILL ID'd in the 'Fe/iron' range...... this target was needing recovery. Good thing! Selecting any other tone option..... and the detector would audibly report the composite as "low-tone/iron-tone". Yes, the F-75 will still unmask more non-ferrous targets than other detectors if 2-tone or multiple tones are selected; however, a substantially greater level of unmasking performance can be ascertained when unit is placed in 'monotone'. ((( The T-2 with a Disc setting of '21' is the exact same thing as all of the info above ))). Having the ability to adjust how MUCH iron you choose to discriminate….is a major attribute. Small iron items….. such as nails…… will Disc out at a fairly low iron Disc range.
This is Approx 10% of F-75's capabilities.
In addendum:
#1 On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction; what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash concentration (with high Sens settings)....... drop the Sens and see what happens. The non-ferrous target audio resolution will decrease.......possibly even disappear completely (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is). The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
#2 The mandatory "monotone" instructions is primarily for iron nail pits. Long description:
--- If a non-ferrous target is co-located in very close proximity to iron/multi-iron scenario.......,,,,,,,, then......... as you rotate your body around the composite target; the audio will be bouncing between all of the different tones (same with VDI)...with each tone being exceptionally short in duration. You may even encounter a multi-tone audible reporting in ONE sweep of the coil !!! ..... Surely enough to confuse most detectorists into a NON-recovery decision..... as the target is audibly confusing,,, and is not a 'clean' or "solid" repeatable sounding target. ((( Most masked targets are not 'clean' audio targets ))). Each of the multi-tones reporting will be audibly shorter in duration. Kind of a "ratty" sounding/bouncing signal. NOW..... when monotone is selected/invoked,,,,,, this SAME composite target(s) will audibly report a LONGER duration SINGLE-tone audible presentation (instead of several ‘shorter-in-length’ different tones in one sweep of the coil)..... that will less-likely confuse the operator ..... and authorize the operator to make a much better profiling of the composite target audio signature ..... with the end resultant being a more intelligible target-recovery decision from less audible fatigue. Tech Terms; A better signal-to-hull emitter correlation. I'd rather hear ONE "longer" monotone vs. several shorter multi-tones in rapid succession….in a single coil sweep. NOW....... IMAGINE sweeping the coil in a iron nail pit with 2 or 3 or ---- especially 4 tones selected. A hill-billy jug band!!! Try and make non-fatigued intelligent audio decisions under this common scenario! The VDI is extremely "jumpy" in iron pits.... AND SO WOULD BE THE MULTI-TONES!!! ...... At least,,,, in monotone,,,,, as the VDI is presenting extreme variances .... the one monotone will be CONSTANT and STABLE......even as the conductivity of the multi-target scenario varies dramatically ........ even with only one sweep of the coil.
#3 On CZ-3D.... in the 'enhanced' mode; Nearly ALL old coins.... and new coins,,,,, will report as "hi-tone". On the F-75 & T-2, you MUST invoke 4-tone...... which will then cause the OLD coins to audibly report in the 3rd highest tone region (vs. mid-tone)...... and the new coins will remain in THE highest tone. If you select 3-tone on T-2/F-75.... only the NEW coins will report as high-tone.... and SOME of the older coins might report as high tone. Most of the older coins would then audibly report as mid-tone (just like the alum soda tabs).
#4 If you run Disc on 0-4 on the F-75..... all nails will report as good targets in monotone. With F-75 Disc on '6'..... MOST (not all) nails will report as a snap-crackle-pop....tick-click (not a solid audio); which, in turn..... can be ignored. Axe heads, hammers, gun barrels and other large iron targets will give a good audio with Disc on '6' on the F-75. .... But, MOST fields we hunt are not loaded with axe heads, gun barrels and hammers.
#5 The F-75/T-2 have a tendency to "up-average" non-ferrous target ID numbers when near disintegrated iron or bad minerals. VERY common occurence. It is partial 'silent masking' coupled with conductive target response. I have several documented experiences exactly relating to this.
+++ Let's say that you detect a slightly masked silver dime. Normally (without being masked) it would VDI at '71'. But now..... it's slightly masked. It may now VDI at '89'..... a somewhat "up-averaging" VDI common resultant. In both cases, the detector reports "hi-tone". No problems yet.
A slightly corroded buffalo nickel will VDI at '28' in open air...and audibly report as a 'hi-tone'. Now....... with this same nickel in the dirt ... in a natural setting and partially masked..... IT TOO will "up-average" (just like the silver dime) ,,,, to,,, say = VDI '47'. Hmmmmmm, now the nickel 'looks' like a soda tab to the detector...and the unit will now report the slightly masked nickel as a mid-tone. ((( All of this holds true for medium conductivity items...such as relics & gold jewelry ))).
....If you are recovering Mercury dimes at (say) the 11" depth strata...... You may want to ALSO recover the 11" depth strata mid-tones.... as many of these will be the corresponding era Buffalo nickels.
The T-2 & F-75 electronic design architect is notorious for "Up-Averaging" non-ferrous targets in the presence of iron & iron oxides. Not a problem, considering other single freq units would remain completely silent.
ALL detectors have a difficult time ID'ing nickels. CZ's do the best ID job, but are not immune to EASILY mis-ID'ing nickels.
#6 All-Metal mode is the deepest mode; HOWEVER, coin-sized objects will still ID to depths of only 12" or so. The depth at which a target will properly ID in the ID mode..... is the same depth it will properly ID in the AM mode (F-75 & T-2). Yes, targets will audibly report to greater depths in the AM mode...... but the VDI screen will remain blank on the deeper targets. Now,,,,,,, that being said...... IF you are a extremely seasoned hunter...you can take advantage of these greater (no VDI) deeper depths. If you can audibly 'profile' deep/weak targets, you are in for some serious enjoyment. Can you tell the difference between a small target that is shallow, , , such as a lead .22 Short 29Gr rimfire projectile at 4" deep vs. a U.S. nickel at 12" depth. These are both non-ferrous targets. ....... And can you tell the difference between a 2-Penny nail at 7" vs. a Wheat penny at 12". This latter example... is the MOST common and MOST important test for the astute detectorist,,,, as it poses the greatest challenge with the most significant, rewarding resultant. Of note; Dinosaurs can be miles beneath the Earths surface. Egyptian sunken cities are dozens of feet deep........ thusly; the 100 year-old coins we wish to find are a foot or two deep.
NOW.......... that being said…. (((( If you are in a nail infested area, and you do NOTaudibly fatigue easily = = = )))) IF, IF, IF, you can handle a lot of noise.... and the detector can handle (not EMI plagued) a Disc setting of '0' and a Sens setting of '99'....then hunt in 2, 3, 4 tones (your choice),,, hunting for the "deepies". YES.....the detector will mask some targets in this audio selection config (ie 2, 3, 4 tones are selected) because any (heavily masked) target that VDI ID's as a '15' or below will present a 'iron' audio response (as so stated in example above),,,,, BUT, the trade-off is; the F-75 will go deeper just by virtue of the Disc setting being '4' or below (especially '0').
Soooooooo, I am saying (by this set-up config) = MORE MASKING, BUT GREATER DEPTH. Hmmmmmmmm... trade-off. Which one does better? Disc '6' & monotone???? or Disc '0' and multi-tone???? The answer is: They BOTH do!!!!!!!!!
I am saying; HUNT the area in Disc '6' & monotone...... and perform all of the 'unmasking' that you can. THEN hunt in Disc '0' and a tone-option of your choice.... going for all the deepies.
NO...... you can not have both at the same time.
In theory,,,,,,, in an ideal world; Targets are spaced far enough apart so as to be single, solo targets....... not tilted, not near hot rocks, not near iron, no dirt mineralization etc....... This would allow the detector to ID targets with greatest accuracy. HOWEVER; This is not reality ..... not the real world. Fact of the matter is; Nearly all targets are somewhat/somehow handicapped. First; as a good target (say a coin) is moved closer to any other metallic object, a multiplicity of problems are introduced to the detector. Now add dirt mineralization, tilt the coin, add a hot rock or two, etc..... WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! This is genuinely what we contend with as detectorists and detector engineers. How do you correct and compensate for infinite unpredictable variables?! Secondly; What may be categorized and classified as "these two targets are too close to each other" to Brand 'A' detector & coil Assy…. may present different results to Brand 'B' detector & coil Assy. The extremely enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics afforded by a elliptical Double D coil presents just exactly such. A coin and a pull-tab... both at a 6" depth....... and adjacently separated by 6", poses a severe problem to a 10.5" concentric coil,,,,, but does not even approach "problem" status to a 11" elliptical DD coil.
Here is some.
Keep in mind everything I learned using the F70 so far took time and practice.
Nothing was magical but given enough time and practice I began to understand how to use each technique to my advantage.
This is how Sculley uses his F75 in iron.
The same settings can be used on the F70.
Most info written about settings for the T2 and the F75 will also pertain to the F70, except for the settings not available or built in, of course, but tones, sense disc and the rest of the basics will affect all 3 in a similar manner.
The standard elliptical goes pretty deep, the 11" DD F75 coil goes a bit deeper, the DD sniper could work pretty good but I would go with the big DD if you have one.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=4BFfAAkTQDg
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=KJOarwHFHm4
I had some experience hunting in a ridiculous infested site last year and I got pretty good at using something I call the blast through method.
All metal, all other settings maxed out but I came to understand later sense and thresh don't need to be totally maxed and can be set lower.
I looked for blocks of repeating or semi repeating higher numbers and dug every signal I saw that had those.
There was never one solid good signal here, only severe jumping because of the million nails and other large amount of iron from tiny to huge so every good target was really masked well.
It took hours to make sense of what I was seeing and hearing but eventually I got good enough to avoid all the masking iron, and ignore the high tones thrown off by rusty objects from several inches away by using the pinpoint button to zero in on where the actual iron was laying in relation to the high tones that seemed to be repeating in a different area.
This technique worked with 3 different coils.
This method take a lot of practice to master and you don't have the time but something to consider for the future.
This method works too.
Basically disc on 6 and use tone setting 1...monotone.
This also could take some practice but might be your best shot being your first time here with the F70.
A huge amount of technical stuff here but this is why it works.
F-75 Peak Performance - Disc '6' & mandatory 'monotone' relic hunting justification
When the F-75 is placed on a Disc setting of '6' and 'monotone'; This set-up config allows (under MOST circumstances) the best iron see-thru ability..... in locating non-ferrous targets in areas that are loaded with ferrous (usually nails) environments. The older the site....... the more nails will be present; subsequently, the more good targets will be masked. Most detectors will 'shut-down' under these scenarios. The F-75 (& T-2) are the only detectors currently available on the market that begins to tackle this type of (extremely common) scenario.... with some 'unmasking' success.
.... With F-75 Disc on '6' and 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, etc.... the ‘audio’ portion of the Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'...... will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'. What does this mean? = Any target that is between a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM for a multiplicity of reasonings. Now, any target that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked non-ferrous targets when multitones are selected. Said differently via utilization of a "extremely common occurrence" example;
----- Recently, I recovered a badly masked Barber dime. When I (first) detected this severely handicapped dime, the F-75 was in 'monotone', Disc '6', 'PF' and Sens on '99'. In monotone, the dime AUDIBLY sounded good. (( I was going to dig this target )). The VDI was terrible - would/could NOT lock on to anything close to resembling a highly conductive piece of silver. I then invoked 2-tone..... leaving ALL other settings alone. Now.... the dime was constantly audibly reporting as low-tone (iron-tone).....even as I rotated my body around target. The VDI was jumping all over the board…. mostly in the iron ID range. I made the decision to NOT recover the target, primarily due to low iron-tone..... and walked away. Several hours later, I decided to go back and recover this target (and MANY other similar responding targets)..... with F-75 back in 'monotone'. Results = One 2" nail, two 1/2" long nails..... and one 1893 'O' Barber dime. Yep; MOSTLY iron, but certainly not ALL iron. The 2-tone mode did not lie. Justification = The composite of the 4 targets (3 nails & one dime) were higher in conductivity than any one of the nails individually...... but TOTAL conductive composite was HIGHER than any nail (or combination of nails) would have cumulatively registered. Because I (and the detector) knew that the detected target (suspected co-locate/composite of multiple targets under coil) were higher than the conductivity of most nails... yet STILL ID'd in the 'Fe/iron' range...... this target was needing recovery. Good thing! Selecting any other tone option..... and the detector would audibly report the composite as "low-tone/iron-tone". Yes, the F-75 will still unmask more non-ferrous targets than other detectors if 2-tone or multiple tones are selected; however, a substantially greater level of unmasking performance can be ascertained when unit is placed in 'monotone'. ((( The T-2 with a Disc setting of '21' is the exact same thing as all of the info above ))). Having the ability to adjust how MUCH iron you choose to discriminate….is a major attribute. Small iron items….. such as nails…… will Disc out at a fairly low iron Disc range.
This is Approx 10% of F-75's capabilities.
In addendum:
#1 On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction; what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash concentration (with high Sens settings)....... drop the Sens and see what happens. The non-ferrous target audio resolution will decrease.......possibly even disappear completely (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is). The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
#2 The mandatory "monotone" instructions is primarily for iron nail pits. Long description:
--- If a non-ferrous target is co-located in very close proximity to iron/multi-iron scenario.......,,,,,,,, then......... as you rotate your body around the composite target; the audio will be bouncing between all of the different tones (same with VDI)...with each tone being exceptionally short in duration. You may even encounter a multi-tone audible reporting in ONE sweep of the coil !!! ..... Surely enough to confuse most detectorists into a NON-recovery decision..... as the target is audibly confusing,,, and is not a 'clean' or "solid" repeatable sounding target. ((( Most masked targets are not 'clean' audio targets ))). Each of the multi-tones reporting will be audibly shorter in duration. Kind of a "ratty" sounding/bouncing signal. NOW..... when monotone is selected/invoked,,,,,, this SAME composite target(s) will audibly report a LONGER duration SINGLE-tone audible presentation (instead of several ‘shorter-in-length’ different tones in one sweep of the coil)..... that will less-likely confuse the operator ..... and authorize the operator to make a much better profiling of the composite target audio signature ..... with the end resultant being a more intelligible target-recovery decision from less audible fatigue. Tech Terms; A better signal-to-hull emitter correlation. I'd rather hear ONE "longer" monotone vs. several shorter multi-tones in rapid succession….in a single coil sweep. NOW....... IMAGINE sweeping the coil in a iron nail pit with 2 or 3 or ---- especially 4 tones selected. A hill-billy jug band!!! Try and make non-fatigued intelligent audio decisions under this common scenario! The VDI is extremely "jumpy" in iron pits.... AND SO WOULD BE THE MULTI-TONES!!! ...... At least,,,, in monotone,,,,, as the VDI is presenting extreme variances .... the one monotone will be CONSTANT and STABLE......even as the conductivity of the multi-target scenario varies dramatically ........ even with only one sweep of the coil.
#3 On CZ-3D.... in the 'enhanced' mode; Nearly ALL old coins.... and new coins,,,,, will report as "hi-tone". On the F-75 & T-2, you MUST invoke 4-tone...... which will then cause the OLD coins to audibly report in the 3rd highest tone region (vs. mid-tone)...... and the new coins will remain in THE highest tone. If you select 3-tone on T-2/F-75.... only the NEW coins will report as high-tone.... and SOME of the older coins might report as high tone. Most of the older coins would then audibly report as mid-tone (just like the alum soda tabs).
#4 If you run Disc on 0-4 on the F-75..... all nails will report as good targets in monotone. With F-75 Disc on '6'..... MOST (not all) nails will report as a snap-crackle-pop....tick-click (not a solid audio); which, in turn..... can be ignored. Axe heads, hammers, gun barrels and other large iron targets will give a good audio with Disc on '6' on the F-75. .... But, MOST fields we hunt are not loaded with axe heads, gun barrels and hammers.
#5 The F-75/T-2 have a tendency to "up-average" non-ferrous target ID numbers when near disintegrated iron or bad minerals. VERY common occurence. It is partial 'silent masking' coupled with conductive target response. I have several documented experiences exactly relating to this.
+++ Let's say that you detect a slightly masked silver dime. Normally (without being masked) it would VDI at '71'. But now..... it's slightly masked. It may now VDI at '89'..... a somewhat "up-averaging" VDI common resultant. In both cases, the detector reports "hi-tone". No problems yet.
A slightly corroded buffalo nickel will VDI at '28' in open air...and audibly report as a 'hi-tone'. Now....... with this same nickel in the dirt ... in a natural setting and partially masked..... IT TOO will "up-average" (just like the silver dime) ,,,, to,,, say = VDI '47'. Hmmmmmm, now the nickel 'looks' like a soda tab to the detector...and the unit will now report the slightly masked nickel as a mid-tone. ((( All of this holds true for medium conductivity items...such as relics & gold jewelry ))).
....If you are recovering Mercury dimes at (say) the 11" depth strata...... You may want to ALSO recover the 11" depth strata mid-tones.... as many of these will be the corresponding era Buffalo nickels.
The T-2 & F-75 electronic design architect is notorious for "Up-Averaging" non-ferrous targets in the presence of iron & iron oxides. Not a problem, considering other single freq units would remain completely silent.
ALL detectors have a difficult time ID'ing nickels. CZ's do the best ID job, but are not immune to EASILY mis-ID'ing nickels.
#6 All-Metal mode is the deepest mode; HOWEVER, coin-sized objects will still ID to depths of only 12" or so. The depth at which a target will properly ID in the ID mode..... is the same depth it will properly ID in the AM mode (F-75 & T-2). Yes, targets will audibly report to greater depths in the AM mode...... but the VDI screen will remain blank on the deeper targets. Now,,,,,,, that being said...... IF you are a extremely seasoned hunter...you can take advantage of these greater (no VDI) deeper depths. If you can audibly 'profile' deep/weak targets, you are in for some serious enjoyment. Can you tell the difference between a small target that is shallow, , , such as a lead .22 Short 29Gr rimfire projectile at 4" deep vs. a U.S. nickel at 12" depth. These are both non-ferrous targets. ....... And can you tell the difference between a 2-Penny nail at 7" vs. a Wheat penny at 12". This latter example... is the MOST common and MOST important test for the astute detectorist,,,, as it poses the greatest challenge with the most significant, rewarding resultant. Of note; Dinosaurs can be miles beneath the Earths surface. Egyptian sunken cities are dozens of feet deep........ thusly; the 100 year-old coins we wish to find are a foot or two deep.
NOW.......... that being said…. (((( If you are in a nail infested area, and you do NOTaudibly fatigue easily = = = )))) IF, IF, IF, you can handle a lot of noise.... and the detector can handle (not EMI plagued) a Disc setting of '0' and a Sens setting of '99'....then hunt in 2, 3, 4 tones (your choice),,, hunting for the "deepies". YES.....the detector will mask some targets in this audio selection config (ie 2, 3, 4 tones are selected) because any (heavily masked) target that VDI ID's as a '15' or below will present a 'iron' audio response (as so stated in example above),,,,, BUT, the trade-off is; the F-75 will go deeper just by virtue of the Disc setting being '4' or below (especially '0').
Soooooooo, I am saying (by this set-up config) = MORE MASKING, BUT GREATER DEPTH. Hmmmmmmmm... trade-off. Which one does better? Disc '6' & monotone???? or Disc '0' and multi-tone???? The answer is: They BOTH do!!!!!!!!!
I am saying; HUNT the area in Disc '6' & monotone...... and perform all of the 'unmasking' that you can. THEN hunt in Disc '0' and a tone-option of your choice.... going for all the deepies.
NO...... you can not have both at the same time.
In theory,,,,,,, in an ideal world; Targets are spaced far enough apart so as to be single, solo targets....... not tilted, not near hot rocks, not near iron, no dirt mineralization etc....... This would allow the detector to ID targets with greatest accuracy. HOWEVER; This is not reality ..... not the real world. Fact of the matter is; Nearly all targets are somewhat/somehow handicapped. First; as a good target (say a coin) is moved closer to any other metallic object, a multiplicity of problems are introduced to the detector. Now add dirt mineralization, tilt the coin, add a hot rock or two, etc..... WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! This is genuinely what we contend with as detectorists and detector engineers. How do you correct and compensate for infinite unpredictable variables?! Secondly; What may be categorized and classified as "these two targets are too close to each other" to Brand 'A' detector & coil Assy…. may present different results to Brand 'B' detector & coil Assy. The extremely enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics afforded by a elliptical Double D coil presents just exactly such. A coin and a pull-tab... both at a 6" depth....... and adjacently separated by 6", poses a severe problem to a 10.5" concentric coil,,,,, but does not even approach "problem" status to a 11" elliptical DD coil.
Welcome Big21! What coil are you running? Good advice there Revier! I would also use the 11"dd..
Now I dont hunt relics, or any old dirt really, just trashy parks and beaches and whatnot sniping for jewelry and clad, so take this with a grain of salt...the good thing is, the 70 is a great rig to run in trash!
You might want to practice a bit out in the yard before you go....toss down some regular old 16ds (or any nails that sort of are the same size as the ones on your site) and a few clad dimes (or bullets and buttons) all together and give them a sweep..try to duplicate the spacing of the targets where you will be going....I know its not the same as old buried nails, but it may put you in the ballpark regarding the settings you feel comfortable with in iron...
One little trick I use in heavy iron foundry spoil sites is to work the coil vertically over any strange 'break' in the iron...tapping it up and down real fast like a drummer....trying to get it right on top of what was making the signal SKEW slightly stranger than the normal iron..(thats why I run DP tones, to hear the skew)..seems the very center of the 11"dd worked like this acts like some sort of sniper coil, pulses the signal straight down instead of side to side... and will isolate a target in the trash better than a side to side normal sweep...
Also, you will not be able to really use the PP feature on your rig in heavy trash or iron, since it will probably not lock on to your main target....so by tapping the coil, I know right where the target is...
try it out in the yard..a handful of nails and a dime or two..then try it with a quarter, lead bullet or fishing weight, button, whatever you are after...put the two very close together and see try to see if you can isolate the good target in the iron....in 10 minutes you should be all dialed in with your settings and get an idea of what you may need to do regarding the above advice...
If the iron is real heavy the silver/relic signal will either be masked or skew....you gotta recognize the skew when you hear it, also sweep the same dirt a few times before taking another step, especially if theres 10 pings in that arc....like three passes over the same arc.each time raising the coil just a bit...sometimes the silver/relic signal will 'hold on' as the coil gets higher and the iron will drop off...depending upon how deep everything is of course....
.I like to run very soft (weak) settings..those may help you in iron, again, depending upon the depth you may have to increase it.....you need to experiment, go over the same dirt with a few different settings and understand how the changes affected the feedback...I'd start out in my normal weak totlot program, just because I UNDERSTAND what it is telling me about the site, and adjust from there if needed, maybe all the way up to Reviers Blast Through method!......Good Luck and report back!
Mud..
Now I dont hunt relics, or any old dirt really, just trashy parks and beaches and whatnot sniping for jewelry and clad, so take this with a grain of salt...the good thing is, the 70 is a great rig to run in trash!
You might want to practice a bit out in the yard before you go....toss down some regular old 16ds (or any nails that sort of are the same size as the ones on your site) and a few clad dimes (or bullets and buttons) all together and give them a sweep..try to duplicate the spacing of the targets where you will be going....I know its not the same as old buried nails, but it may put you in the ballpark regarding the settings you feel comfortable with in iron..
.One little trick I use in heavy iron foundry spoil sites is to work the coil vertically over any strange 'break' in the iron...tapping it up and down real fast like a drummer....trying to get it right on top of what was making the signal SKEW slightly stranger than the normal iron..(thats why I run DP tones, to hear the skew)
..seems the very center of the 11"dd worked like this acts like some sort of sniper coil, pulses the signal straight down instead of side to side... and will isolate a target in the trash better than a side to side normal sweep...Also, you will not be able to really use the PP feature on your rig in heavy trash or iron, since it will probably not lock on to your main target....so by tapping the coil, I know right where the target is...
try it out in the yard..a handful of nails and a dime or two..then try it with a quarter, lead bullet or fishing weight, button, whatever you are after...put the two very close together and see try to see if you can isolate the good target in the iron....in 10 minutes you should be all dialed in with your settings and get an idea of what you may need to do regarding the above advice...
If the iron is real heavy the silver/relic signal will either be masked or skew....you gotta recognize the skew when you hear it, also sweep the same dirt a few times before taking another step, especially if theres 10 pings in that arc....like three passes over the same arc.each time raising the coil just a bit...sometimes the silver/relic signal will 'hold on' as the coil gets higher and the iron will drop off...depending upon how deep everything is of course....
.I like to run very soft (weak) settings..those may help you in iron, again, depending upon the depth you may have to increase it.....you need to experiment, go over the same dirt with a few different settings and understand how the changes affected the feedback...I'd start out in my normal weak totlot program, just because I UNDERSTAND what it is telling me about the site, and adjust from there if needed, maybe all the way up to Reviers Blast Through method!......Good Luck and report back!
Mud..
REVIER
Well-known member
nalc472 said:
Man, I never use notch except one time when I was just to lazy to dig or even hear about a million sta tabs at a trashy park.
I hope you do realize that the way you were set up here when you set the disc high and that notch low you were actually notching "in" everything at that 30 and below setting.
I believe that's what is happening here, anyway.
The only area that was discriminated out was from 31to 59 so I am surprised you got that IH.
Most of the ones I found or air tested come in at the high 50's somewhere and a few below that 59.
For relic hunting I don't think this setup would work.
I recently dug up a small Dragoon cuff button that was in the 40's so in this case with these settings you would have missed it.
When hunting relics, in heavy iron or just about everywhere else I only use all metal or disc depending on the site and my disc will be set between 4 and 23 also depending on the site, what I am looking for and what kind of trash I want to avoid.
I don't really mind hunting with most of iron in using the F70.
Listening to those grunts is nowhere near as annoying and frustrating as when I use other detectors like my Tesoros or my F2.
doc holiday
New member
Revier--WOW ---thanks for the Phd dissertation. Your Phi Beta Kappa key is in the mail.
Thats true!.....Listening to the iron grunts is not really that annoying....they are helpful to get the lay of the land...the outline of the situation and all that...helps a guy 'see' the site through sound...in fact, its always a pleasure to wade through a rotten mess with the 70...a guy knows that nobody else would ever attempt to hunt this area..if they did, they would have to have some mad skills...so thats where you want to be..right in the trash where nobody else would dare tread...let them swing over an open beanfield with one ping per 50'! You wade into the trash with several targets under coil at once, and pick on through it....
Mud.
Mud.
so I am not that smart and I am also no scientist...but the guy that wrote that is.
REVIER
Well-known member
nalc472 said:
Yes true, I stand corrected using the F70, anyway.
Notching on the F70 will take out or put back in the entire range of the notched number section...all nickel, all foil, etc.
The F75 has a slight advantage here because you can split the sections so check that out further if you use the F75.
This is a feature which sounds like it would come in handy for me to knock out some real problem tabs but leave still be able to leave the rest of the tab section in because I just love to find gold and it could come in anywhere so I hate to miss out using disc of any kind in areas where gold is common.
I can't do that on the F70 so I just deal with it like I do with everything else in my life and rarely notch or disc out out anything.
I don't think you have a handle on how notch works on the F70/F75/T2 platforms...maybe the F5 too but I am not sure about that.
It is not like other brands.
If you set your disc low and the notch higher than that disc level you will be discriminating out that entire notch area like normal.
However if you set your disc high and a notch, or more than one notch, at lower levels it works the opposite and you are actually putting these notch sections back into play.
Just think of high disc and low notch as 2 negatives cancelling each other out and makes a positive.
This has confused more than one of us Fisher guys in the past, too much thinking about it actually drove mudpuppy to drinking way more than he usually does for several days, but this thread should explain it better.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2068137,2068425#msg-2068425
Also a tip...
If you do set a notch I would advise that you do a reset before going back to any regular settings using no notch.
Just turning the notch back to 1 doesn't seem to get rid of the notch all the time...if ever.
As far as coin shooting I love to do that but again I am a jewelry hunter at my core so a disc at 40 for me would be heresy...heresy I tell you!
Even when looking for and finding clad the possibility of a gold ring hiding is always there.
Also I have found nickels not only at my normal 32 but several a bit higher and several more a bit lower because out of all the coins nickels are just weird.
I would hate to set disc that high and miss gold, lots of silver chains or even a regular nickel let alone a carved hobo, buff or V nickel.
With disc at 40 this would happen if you rolled over any of those things.
My usual settings in a trashy park when I don't want to be bothered with a ton of garbage and want a quieter experience would be...
Disc no higher than 23--This knocks out small foil, those stupid freshness seals that are everywhere, most small iron like nails and other troublesome junk.
Again I also have set that disc way lower down to 4 or so because the iron grunts don't bother me and there are some cool things that do come in at iron even in non relic sites like pocket knives that I also love to find.
So far I have found gold from 24 on up so my DNA and voices in my head just won't let me ever turn the disc up higher or the what ifs could kill me.
Sense as High as I can go without noise which could be from the 50's on up even into the 90's in some sites.
I believe I can get super deep at pretty much all sense settings...no matter how low you set the sense even to 1 there is a limit on how low the actual power will go so 1 on this thing is not actually 1% of the actual sensitivity and depth range...it is always going to be more.
I have hunted at very high power levels in the past also, noise does not bother me and neither does the jumpy screen numbers because when this thing rolls over a good target it calms down and tells me.
Lately, however, I have been experimenting with some quieter settings and they all seem to work well for me.
If you turn that sense way down to about 30, give or take, and this seems to have an effect of shrinking and localizing the scanning field to a laser-like instrument using any coil including the big ones so in areas with a ton of trash like around picnic pavilions I am still able to pluck out coins and jewelry very easily at this level and when I run into heavy trash that is what I do and I never worry about depth, either.
If I can pick up a solid dime easily at a measured 5" deep on 19, which I have done, I know I can get far enough into the ground at 30 to find most targets I look for in my soil.
Some hunters go way lower than 30, some hunt all the time at just a bit higher.
Your soil conditions will affect the depth you will get using different sensitivity levels and that thresh is tied into that too so you just have to find a combination that works for you.
DE speed because the processors are faster than SL and the noise is reduced or nonexistent.
Thresh at -2 or so because when I get too much higher it skews the tones in 4H, my favorite coin shooting tone setting, and makes everything sound weird to me.
Sometimes I will use 1, 1f or 2F in some very trashy sites or when I really want to get deep because there is less noise and EMI problems at these tone settings even when I turn the sense way up and the tone skewing problem is not there, either.
Gotta watch the screen closely when using these, however, when I use 4H I just hunt without looking and listen for a good tone then check the screen.
Way faster that way for me.
Notch---set at 1, left at 1, never taken off of 1.
So far except for that one time I have never used it and don't plan on using it much in the future.
Everything I need to do, see, hear and find can be accomplished using the other settings and the disc range available.
Update, I jacked it up to 99 sens, +9 thresh, disc at 6 with 3 tones, never dug a nail but my pinpointer found plenty. This place was loaded with flat iron and farm implements that rand up in the high 80's to low 90's so I ignored those and probaly alot of Reals also but I did did 5 buttons, a few fired bullets and buckle and an appared radius bone that was either amputated or cut with a farm disc. What was wierd was the2 flat buttons were within 20' of the bone.... Great day and it was fun to fire up this F70 full blast and swing!! Thanks for all your tips!
Great report and great finds! 
So...You went with the REVIER full power 'blast through' method? I dont see how you could handle it, I cant! But you did!
Congratulations on handling a very hot rig with the hottest of all settings! All the rest should be easy for you from now on!
Mud
So...You went with the REVIER full power 'blast through' method? I dont see how you could handle it, I cant! But you did!
Congratulations on handling a very hot rig with the hottest of all settings! All the rest should be easy for you from now on!Mud
REVIER
Well-known member
mudpuppy said:Great report and great finds!
So...You went with the REVIER full power 'blast through' method? I dont see how you could handle it, I cant! But you did!
Mud
Not exactly, I was using all metal but this way is using most of tom's recommendation except for the 3 tones.
1 tone is suggested for better identification of targets in iron fields but hey, whatever works, works.
I thought I was the only one crazy enough to hunt with such high and hot settings.
Guess not...welcome to the club and congratZ on the finds!