Bottom-heavy......Silver uMax versus Ace250

[ToddB64]

Dear friends,

I have an Ace 250 detector and thinking about getting a Silver uMax and looking for opinions from those who have both detectors, as to which one seems the most bottom-heavy when using the standard coil. Please state whether tests were made with coil covers on or off.

(Note, this is not about total weight.)

Thanks !

Todd

 

[tvr]

Hi Todd,
Unfortunately I don't have either ... but I understand where you are coming from with the balance issue. That is largely why I most frequently grab the Cibola with standard coil and coil cover. I am considering selectively adding some weight to balance some of the other detectors I have around the pivot point of the swing.
tvr

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Silver, and it is NOT bottom heavy at all. I have the standard 8" coil, with no cover. I have ordered a 250, and swung one last week. It had the standard coil also. The Ace is more bottom-heavy, but it's not an issue. I have health problems and have to use light-weight machines.

 

[SkiWhiz]

I have had 2 Ace 250's one Ace 150 and 2 Silver uMax's and now a Silver Sabre uMax. I don't find the uMax's bottom heavy at all, matter of fact they are very comfortable to swing all day long. You all can keep your Ace 250's for me I wouldn't take 10 of them for one Silver uMax. I don't like that horrid bell tone sound & the very slow recovery speed of the Ace. Steve.

 

[slingshot]

The only time my Silver seems bottom heavy is when I try to force the sweep-or speed it up. It is hard to know until you've used a small coil and switched back to the 8" coil. Putting a small coil on the Silver after using the 8" coil will cause you to automatically speed your sweep speed because after using the other one, it will seem like the small coil just isn't there! My Ace, on the other hand, has a lighter coil-but the overall weight is heavier than the Silver-it's kinda distributed over the whole detector. If you "let" the detector swing in the same rhythm as your body swing, both detectors "seem" to have no bottom bottom lag-I think that is a better word-"lag". I will tell you this-after hurting my arm by swinging a CZ-5 non-stop for 6 hours-I couldn't see ever going back to another detector that's heavier than these two. It took almost a year for the arm to heal-I searched left-handed that year.

 

[ToddB64]

tvr, Tesoronut, SkiWhiz and slingshot,

Thanks for your comments. That helps a lot !

In addition to my interest in the Silver uMax, I am waiting for a reply from Monte Berry, to an E-mail sent to him on Oct. 4, 2008 regarding the Tesoro Bandido II uMax.

At age 67 with frequent shoulder discomfort, it looks like a light-weight, well-balanced, Tesoro is the way to go for me ! Although I will keep my Ace250 and like it's Graphic Target ID and all the functions, it is a bit bottom (or nose) heavy, even though I keep the coil fairly close to my feet as I swing, i.e. about 1 ft. out and switch arms occasionally. I would characterize the bottom heaviness as "slight", but with my shoulders that's enough to limit my sessions to about 2 hours. Can't do a detecting marathon as I would like to. :sad:

Todd

 

[slingshot]

Many, including myself, have constructed a sling constructed out of a belt similar to a computer bag sling w/2 clips-one on each end. The belts, of course, have adjust buckels on them to adjust the lengths. One clip clips to your belt in the back, goes over your preferred shoulder, and comes to just above the detector swing height. A bungee cord is then connected to the other belt clip, hanging and connectable to the detector handle. I did it this way: I got one of the solid, thicker bungees and hooked one hook thru the clip-let the bungee wrap around the handle-then brought the other hook and placed it in the same hook by the other one and bent the s-clips to stay. Then, I only hand to unhook the clip to remove and place it around the handle. The detector will then weight almost nothing. The only discomfort is the belt sometimes falling from your shoulder when digging. Another belt would prevent. Go to treasurequest.com and their forum lists how to build one.

 

[Relic]

I got a Silver with the standard coil and cover for my wife and she was amazed at how light it is; she can hunt all day with no trouble. She had been using an Ace 250 and prefers the Silver. I don't feel the difference between the two is real pronounced, but the Tesoro is definitely lighter. If you have physical limitations, the Silver is the better choice; I also think it's the better detector.

HH
Relic

 

[sqwaby]

Don't have a silver, I do have a Vaquero and a Ace though. The V weighs the same as a silver with the stock coil. I agree, the ace is a little bottom heavy against the vaq, but they are so close I think its a non issue. Just got a small coil (5.75) for the vaq. man you talk about light. I need to weigh it, might be under 2lbs. My shoulders are pretty worn after many yrs surfing, but I can swing any of these for 3-4 hrs with no problem. I like light.

 

[ToddB64]

Thanks Relic and sqwaby for your replies !

I just sent a message to slingshot, asking if he can help me find the post on TQ Forums having to do with the metal detector weight redistribution rig, his post 10-07-2008 9:56 AM.

Stay tuned !

Todd

 

[nad]

I used a Fisher 1266 and that would flat down wear me out. Weight was the reason I went to the Silver U Max, AND, all the great feedback on this site...No regrets.Will be adding coils to the Silver, and going with something else that has a bit more ground penetration for the older sites. Haven't been out for more than an hour or so, so have no comments as to how long it takes me to bite the dust,,I am just totally having fun...,cordially Nad.

 

[ToddB64]

I used a Fisher 1266 and that would flat down wear me out. Weight was the reason I went to the Silver U Max, AND, all the great feedback on this site...No regrets.Will be adding coils to the Silver, and going with something else that has a bit more ground penetration for the older sites. Haven't been out for more than an hour or so, so have no comments as to how long it takes me to bite the dust,,I am just totally having fun...,cordially Nad.

nad........Thanks for your comments !

You probably already know this, but it's not always the total weight of a detector that makes us bite the dust, but overall balance of the machine being affected by the weight of the coil and where it is attached to the lower pole. For example, if the pole is attached more toward the rear of the coil, this would put more of the coil weight out in front, creating the nose-heavy feeling. A nose-heavy machine puts more stress on arm and shoulder muscles and given enough "swing-time" will cause muscle pain. Of course, everything is relative to the amount of out-of-balance of the machine coupled with the physical fitness and strength of the individual.

Glad you are enjoying your Silver uMax .............Happy Hunting !

Todd

 

[dahut]

Not an issue.

The Ace or the Silver uMax are not even in the "bottom heavy" category. Everyone has made that clear and they are right.
I'd like to add that they are not even in the same class. You're comparing apples and oranges with those two.

If its a choice between them, you must make, then dont do it on weight.

 

[tab-nabit]

Not an issue.

The Ace or the Silver uMax are not even in the "bottom heavy" category. Everyone has made that clear and they are right.
I'd like to add that they are not even in the same class. You're comparing apples and oranges with those two.

If its a choice between them, you must make, then dont do it on weight.

I'll have to agree to that - never thought of it as an issue.
I have and had machines where you knew it was an issue in a very short time.
On some that I guess you can call borderline, I would shorten the shaft length and swing the coil closer to the feet which took some of the front end weight off.
I had one machine that I added some weight to the arm cuff - it did weigh more overall, but the balance made it easier. Somewhat along the line of me balancing fishing poles. I would rig up the reel and run the line, then pop off the cap at the end of the handle and add flat weights so that the rig would balance while I held it as I normally would. Overall more weight but the balance allow me less fatigue = more up time as far as I'm concerned.

 

[rmptr]

I've used both. Any difference in weight is negligible.

The problem is the repetitive motion.

As tab-nabit says, adjust shaft appropriately, and hunt closer to your feet.
Wide swings will stress you more.
Chances are you could build up a bit of stamina.
Relegate yourself to short hunts for a while. Perhaps and hour, or hour and a half three times a week.

LoL! I took a friend's kid out with me, using a SSabre, years ago...
BIG kid. HUGE! VERY powerful!
23 yrs old, 260lbs, lean, mean, AND a real scrapper... first 1/2 hr had him whimpering about pain in his forearm!
I tried to get him to ease up, he had a death grip on the crank like a steel vice! No good, he was spent!

I would hope you'll do well enough if you modify your sweep style a bit, and limit yourself to shorter, comfortable hunts.

Best
rmptr

 

[ToddB64]

Thanks dahut, tab-nabit and rmptr for replying on this ! Good points all .

Todd

 

[trueblue]

I have both and the Ace is definitely nose heavy when compared to the Silver Umax if both fitted with there stock coils

 

[ToddB64]

I have both and the Ace is definitely nose heavy when compared to the Silver Umax if both fitted with there stock coils

Thanks trueblue. Good report !

Todd