Black Sand Mode For IDX Classic

[pinecreekkid]

Are there any advantages to using the black sand mode on the Classic IDX? I hunted on one of our local beaches yeserday here in Iowa, and thought I would try the black sand mode for awhile. It seemed that the detector would pick up very small metal objects that I normally would not get in the normal setting.
I found a couple small necklace clasps and switched the detector back to normal and only got a very faint tick tick sound (sorry that is the only way I can describe it), but in the black sand mode they were loud and clear. Would it work ok when detecting a park or anyplace else? I usually run my detector with the sensitivity at max and the discrimination at 9:00. I would like other opinions on the advantages and disadvantages of using this mode. I value all the advice I get from those that are much more knowlegable on these things than I am. Thank You.

 

[Tom Slick]

The black sand switch expands the discrimination at the lower settings from about the 12:00 position on down. SO runing your disc at the 9:00 in normal and then switching to B/S would be like dropping the Disc to say 7:00 position. The lower the Disc the deeper your IDX will detect. In beach areas where you want to recover just about anything other than iron for the chance to get the gold jewelry, switching to Black Sand does increase sensitivity to smaller jewelry items as well as add depth. I always use Black Sand when detecting beaches where it can add an inch or more to the detection depth. I haven't found a real benefit to hunting schools and parks where you usually run more Disc. Otherwise you end up getting every little piece of foil. Once you turn the disc past about the 12:00 position with the detector runing in Black Sand mode, it runs as if the toggle is in normal so the only time the B/S switch works is when the dics is set below the 112:00 position. I hope this helps and I haven't made it clear as mud.

 

[Ronk]

There are sometimes when someone wants to hunt in all metal just to see what's down there and the Classic running in the B.S. mode gives U a True Silent Search All Metal Mode.It gives you more control of the lower conductors such as small jewelry and certain types of buttons and it's a Great way to hunt for relics especially larger iron like horseshoes-old tools-guns-buckles-Pocket Knives and get the Best depth.As far as Advantages and Dis-Advantages of the B.S.mode.The only real Dis-Advantage would be it will signal on Everything...both Ferrous and Non-Ferrous but to some,that is an Advantage..It just depends what you are looking for and how much trash U are willing to put up with.The Black Sand Mode is also good for finding Property Markers.That's what I did for someone once.Some more Advantages of the Black Sand Mode are you will get Very Good Depth and with a large coil it's make a good cache hunter.If you are in a newer area and it's very mineralized the Black Sand Mode will give you the better depth IF you keep the disc control at Ring Range or lower.If U turn the disc past the 12:00 position in the BS Mode then U defeated the whole purpose of it.
Something else I normally tell others is You don't have to have bad ground to use the BS position.You can still gain a couple or so inches more depth even in good ground as long as U keep the disc at min -noon position.You can get Some small jewelry at in the Normal disc mode but not too small.If you want the smallest jewelry you need to use the BS mode at min but not higher than the the 12;00 position.Also a small coil will help with the tiny jewelry.I probably repeated what others have already told you after reading the post above but I hope this has been some help to you!
HH!
RonK

 

[thebeatmachine]

It's a gimmic feature and it's the same as turning the discrimination down a couple of notches.

 

[Ronk]

I really don't look at it as a gimmick.A Gimmick is what's NEEDED to help sell things.Not the case with the Classics.As far as Metal Detectors,Gimmicks ARE Needed for certain Manufacturers to help sell their product.Gimmicks can be things that are not needed and do very little to nothing performance wise.What difference does is make if Whites decided to split the disc in 2 different levels? That's Not a Gimmick! It is something that REALLY WORKS and most newer High End detectors CAN NOT adjust that low with either a switch OR one knob adjustment! Brightly Colored Ads with LARGE PRINT and Fancy Graphics and Exaggerated Claims are Gimmicks! Field Testers that are Brand Loyal are Gimmicks,Do Nothing Knobs and Switches are Gimmicks.Outrageous Depth claims are Gimmicks.I could easily write a couple full pages of why Classic owners like their detectors and Never once have to mention the Black Sand switch.That's Not the reason everyone bought one! But I can also give you a lot of info on some newer detectors that I won't mention the Brand that a lot of their advertising IS Hype and Gimmicks!Gimmicks Can be Expensive to Buy! The Classics can still keep up with a lot of newer machines out there even though they might not have a Bell or Whistle that's NOT Needed to perform!
I wasn't trying to pick a fight it's just that I disagree with your opinion about the Black Sand Switch so Please don't take it personal.

HH!
RonK

 

[oldandtired]

n/t

 

[Tom Slick]

It's not the same as turning the disc "down a couple notches". It's close, but it's also as if the disc control is actually two controls. Much like a detector that has a Course and a Fine ground balance control. It expands the disc in the lower ranges making it easier to fine tune it. Anyone that has used a Classic III, IDX, or IDX Pro to the point of really knowing the machine will understand how well the B/S switch works. Those with little experience with it may think it's a gimmick.

 

[Ronk]

n/t

 

[thebeatmachine]

Well I really struck a chord with you Ronk, and thats a good thing. Like I said the Black sand switch is a "feature" and not a "gimmic" But it is a gimmic like feature just like Minelab's FBS. As a matter of fact, the Black Sand switch probably does more to increase depth than the FBS feature of Minelab detectors, so I completelly agree with you.

My IDX has a ten turn GB in place of the B.S. switch.

 

[thebeatmachine]

No you're wrong all it does is lower the disc notch. You have been fooled my marketing.

 

[Tom Slick]

"It's a Gimmic feature", "It's a "feature" and not a "gimmic", "It's a gimmic like feature". I guess you don't REALLY know what it is, based on your quotes. I rest my case.

 

[thebeatmachine]

The BS switch works in any postition that the discrimination knob is set to. The potetiometer for the DISC is a 10 k ohm so when its on, You add an extra 680 ohms to it So the range is from 680 to 10,680 , So whatever the disc switch is set to 12' o clock, 3 o clock whatever the BS switch effects the Disc.

SO the BS switch is the same as turning down the DISC a couple of nothches. Since IRON Gets knocked out around 9 O clock anyway, Why do you really need this?

I HOPE I AM PERFECTLY CLEAR ON THIS.

 

[Monte]

The BS switch works in any postition that the discrimination knob is set to. The potetiometer for the DISC is a 10 k ohm so when its on, You add an extra 680 ohms to it So the range is from 680 to 10,680 , So whatever the disc switch is set to 12' o clock, 3 o clock whatever the BS switch effects the Disc.

SO the BS switch is the same as turning down the DISC a couple of nothches. Since IRON Gets knocked out around 9 O clock anyway, Why do you really need this?

I HOPE I AM PERFECTLY CLEAR ON THIS.

The Black Sand toggle selector can be set for Normal or Black Sand and, sadly, that was a poor label to use. I prefer to call it Normal or Expanded or Enhanced. It functions more like the old Gold Mountain Technologies Cobra or GMT-1650 (same circuitry). I am not referring to the King Cobra, just a model named Cobra which, like the GMT-1650, had a toggle to select the Discrimination range from Low or High.

With the Classic III SL, Classic IDX or IDX Pro, the option to select Black Sand will expand or enhance the LOWER END of the Discrimination adjustment range. It has nothing to do with hunting in black sand and a Ground balance adjustment, like some people have suggested in years past. The Upper End of the Discrimination range is not affected.

For example, If you are toggled to Normal, the Discrimination level will reject a Zinc Cent at about a 3-o-clock position, and most common iron nails are rejected close to a 9-o-clock setting. Also, a Minimum Discriminate setting will still be rejecting a good deal of iron.

If you toggle to the Black Sand setting, you still reject the Zinc Cent at a 3-o-clock setting because the upper-end of the adjustment range is not affected. However, to reject the same iron nails you need to increase the Discrimination setting to a point close to the Ring range preset marker, and when the Disc. level is reduced to minimum, these models will accept ALL metal targets, ferrous and non-ferrous.

Those who haven;'t actually used a good Classic III SI, Classic IDX or an IDX Pro to learn these abilities just don't quite understand. If the Black Sand label would have been changed to Enhanced or Expanded, it could have made a difference. Toggling from Normal to Black Sand with a setting of 9-o-clock Discrimination isn't the same because you would now be accepting and responding to the nail or other iron. The lower-end adjustment range has been changed (expanded) to go lower AND allow more fine-tuning of iron target acceptance/rejection.

Monte

 

[Ronk]

Monte...After all these years of You and others explaining the BS switch and it's Real Purpose you would think people would at least Start to understand some of it but like you said (it could have made a difference.) if it was labeled different.I Agree with you on that! A lot of folks still really believe it has to do with Black Sand or the Ground Adjust. I just about gave up trying to explain it anymore.So many would rather argue about it and like I told you before,,I don't get in those heated Discussions about things like that.I have seen on other Detector websites in the past where people Lost Friendships over which detector was Faster,Deeper,Quieter,Better,or Prettier,etc....And name calling and threats and violence all because of a circuit board and coil of wire! Now just because it's labeled "BS" instead of something else, that too has caused so much arguments and confusion with others.
Whatever it's called,it certainly isn't a Gimmick! It is a Great Feature to have and works Great "Without Gimmicks"!
Always Grateful for your input,wisdom,knowledge and comments!

HH!
RonK

 

[Ronk]

Monte....When I checked a Zinc at the 3 o-clock setting I had to turn the knob a little farther to reject it and I think I know why.There is a Trimmer at the left edge of the circuit board and it is for the calibration of the Disc control.One time I was fine tuning mine a little and I probably didn't get it exactly at the 3-o-clock setting but that's no problem to readjust.All you do is pass targets over the coil while you "Slowly" turn the trimmer.There are several ways to do it..and one way is use a Nickel and the manual tells you where it should reject it at and it's about where a pull tab with ring are rejected.You Do Have to turn the trimmer SLOW because it doesn't take much to adjust it. If you get that right..the rest of the targets labeled around the knob will disc out where it shows.
You'll know if you have it wrong if a Nickel is rejected too soon before tab or too far past the tab setting."I wouldn't recommend anyone messing with it if they don't know what they are doing"! The internal trimmer has the same range as the External Disc control.It almost like Dual discriminators.It's something like adjusting a notch width control on the inside of a Vintage GMT King Cobra or similar detectors.On the Classic if you turn the Disc on Max and if it rejects a Copper penny then you have to back off the internal control a hair.It IS very easy adjust but you have to make sure that "Every Time" you turn the internal control a little pass a target across the coil to make sure it is either Accepted or Rejected on the right place on the dial.If you can Accept a Copper just a little before Max disc then you have it correct. And the Black Sand settings should be ok too.If the Zinc is rejected about 3 o-clock on the Disc..Give or Take a hair,then all is well. All of this is My experience with MY Classic and the Disc control.Even though the adjustment is Very Easy I still Would Not advise anyone that's unsure to mess with it.

HH!
RonK

 

[thebeatmachine]

n/t

 

[Monte]

Pardon me for doing a cut-and-past from Wikipedia here, but I think it gets the message across of what a "gimmick" might be. Quote:

In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature. It began, however, as a slang term for something that a con artist or magician had his assistant manipulate to make appearances different from reality. Such things as the manipulating of a gaming wheel led to the idea of a "gimmick" being used.

The two-position selector toggle is very functional and serves a useful purpose. This is especially true for the more devoted detectorist who wants to be able to enhance the performance in a more challenging environment, such as high mineralization or even some saltwater conditions. Therefore, it is NOT a simple 'gimmick' to try and attract attention or con people.

Monte

 

[Ronk]

Amen Monte! Thanks for help getting the record straight, even though Some will still argue just to have their name in lights! I noticed that the T2 can also go into True All Metal in disc Mode.I thought about that feature a lot in case I decide to purchase that model instead of one of the others.I like that BS mode on my C3SL! It sure helps when things get rough! Common knowledge shows that it was NOT a gimmick because all through the years of the hundreds of posts I have read from those that bought the Classic never did know what the BS switch was for until later on when someone Tried to explain it for them.They were already making great finds without ever using the BS mode. They were saying how much they loved their Classic without knowing anything about the BS switch.Even today a lot of others still don't know what it's for even with all the explaining that's ever been posted.In fact even before they added the BS switch to the earlier Classics people still loved the way their detector operated and then later on when it was added that was a Great Feature to have! Some don't realize the difference between and Gimmick and a Feature.Features Work and Gimmicks Don't! Thanks again for jumping in there on the Never Ending BS topic! It's almost as never ending as the "Depth" topic!

HH!
RonK

 

[thebeatmachine]

n/t

 

[JHM]

I really don't consider it a gimick. I bought an idx because it had a black sand switch. I can lower the discrimination, flip it on, and get another couple of inches of depth. Provided I want to listen to all signals and hunt by the display.