Black Sand beaches and the Excalibur?

[Digger28]

Hi everyone, I would really appreciate your help. I'm vacationing on a small West Indies island this spring. The island has 6 beaches - all but one are black sand. This is a volcanic island so when I say black sand I mean the entire beach is pure black sand - not a mix. I hunt freshwater on occasion here in Michigan with my old Tiger Shark but I have no experience with salt/black sand beaches.

So, I'm looking at adding a salt unit before my trip. It seems that PI may be the way to go but I'm not excited about the proverbial hairpin at 20" scenario. Has anyone water hunted in pure volcanic black sand with the Excal, if so I'd be interested to hear your experience.

Maybe PI is the only choice here... any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Gulf Hunter]

Digger, I have not personally used an Excal in the conditions you mentioned. I have heard from another user of the unit in Hawaii, where that type of condition exists and the performance is not favorable. A PI or CZ21-8 maybe a better choice in those conditions. Best of luck in your decision.

 

[Digger28]

Gulf Hunter,

Thanks for the feedback. Well, looks like I start my research into these units you mention. As to the PI choices (which are many) I have done a cursory review of the Surf PI Pro, Tesoro Sand Shark, the HH Pulse and the Infinium. The Sand Shark is more to my liking price wise of course but I hope to pay for the unit over time anyway so price isn't the whole picture. In the conditions I'm up against perhaps a unit with more ground adjustments would be more productive. Any thoughts on these options or others?

Is the CZ21-8 a PI unit? I'm assuming not since you listed it seperately. Gotta check that one out as well.

Thanks again.

 

[Gulf Hunter]

I am kinda retired from the PI gig right now, but understand the White's DF is pretty nice. The Infinium is a killer PI too, but HEAVY learning curve. The CZ21-8 is a VLF and can be run in all metal, like the PI, but also has a discrimination knob, to check for ferrous iron. Tough decisions, let us know what you decide.

 

[Digger28]

I'm sorta leaning away from the PI route. After seeing pics in the various forums of all the trash one must dig I think I'd get tired of it after a few hunts. I don't mind digging the non-ferrous stuff - tabs, caps, bullet shells, etc but not keen on digging large holes for sparkler wires, rusty screws, nails and the like.

So I'm looking into the CZ21-8 and I read some good things about the BHID 300 and its ability to work in black sand conditions. The other element is that I now understand from the resort owners where we're staying that one of the 5 black sand beaches is not too band - they called it a "silver" beach. So my acceptable beach count is 2 with 4 beaches that may or may not be too productive.

If anyone has any experience in black sand beach hunts with either the CZ21-8 or the BHID 300 I would love to hear your comments.

Thanks Gulf Hunter for your help, I do appreciate it!

 

[sandman256]

I have not personally used an Excal in the conditions you mentioned either. I find that the Excal does a nice job on beaches with hot rocks and hair pins unlike PI's. The PI's are about the only thing you can use however in lots of black sand. But not all black sand is the same. I think the black sand where your at may be just color. Look at black sand

The CZ21 has a saltwater mode built into the unit and it can not be turned off. I think it would false to much at your location. I would go with a PI like the Sand Shark, Surf PI Pro, or Infinium LS. The Infinium LS has a high-Low tone and a Low-High tone to help id the target too.

 

[Digger28]

Sandman256,

Thanks for your feedback. I'm leaning away from the PI units at the moment but both you and Gulf Hunter have mentioned the Infinium in strongly positive terms. I may do some research into this unit because it sounds like it has some discrimination like features although I understand that no PI can actually tune out iron. Gulf Hunter mentioned that the learning curve is pretty tough so that factors in as well.

It's not an easy decision but the learning process and the prospects are fun for sure.

-Rick

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Minelab Excalibur and Sov's along with CZ land and water units work well. Unfortunately many black sand beaches the only answer is a PI unit. Not having used PI units can offer no info except be prepared to do a lot of digging as they uncover lots of deep small junk along with large and small gold items...

 

[tvr]

I have a little time with a Sand Shark, but not over black sand. On a normal beach I dig hair pins that I would not dig with a VLF detector. Not a huge deal, just a little more junk to throw away. PI detector should also see small chains that you would miss running with any discrimination on most VLF detectors.

Good luck with how ever you hunt those beaches!
tvr

 

[Digger28]

Thanks Dan and tvr for your input it's very helpful.

Dan, I agree on the PI being my only choice for heavy volcanic black sand, I'm hearing this from several folks now. I had hoped that a good VLF would be the answer but alas I may be resigned to digging some extra deep trash to effectively hunt my black volcanic beaches.

tvr, I have a couple of questions about the SS and since you're a user perhaps you could chime in. I noticed that it has a Pulse Delay dial, is this the same as a frequency dial on other PIs like the Headhunter PI? HH claims that it can be adjusted without any loss of depth. And I read a few folks who said that they use this feature on the HH to "reverse discriminate". Specifically they hunt with the freq up to the max and when a target is acquired they spin it down to the min to see if the target still sounds off. The idea is that iron will not go away whereas gold would. Is this possible with the Sand Shark?

Another poster mentioned that he always runs the Sand Shark in VCO because it helps him determine the relative size of the detected object, this way he avoids digging beer cans and car hoods I suppose. Do you find this to be the case with your Sand Shark?

I've read statements from some PI users saying that some wire and rusty iron can be distinguished by the rough edges of the audio response and that coins and rings have a smoother "edge". Are there indeed audio characteristics of different metal targets with PI machines.

Also, if any of you use the Headhunter PI can you tell me the advantages (if any) of this unit over the Sand Shark. I think it cost about $175 more.

I'm thinking of taking my Tiger Shark in hopes of using it on the one or two not so bad beaches and adding a Sand Shark to the arsenal for all the others. The HH PI would be an acceptable choice pricewise as well if I learn that it has definite advantages. I do like the fact that it's very light and that Eric Foster was involved with the circuit design. I don't know much about it other than that.

Many thanks for all your help !

-Rick

 

[tvr]

I only have about a week of couple hours a day of hunting time with the Sand Shark (about 12 to 14 hours). So I still have a lot to learn about the Sand Shark.

Sand Shark has a pulse width setting, not a pulse delay. I believe the White's PI Dual Field uses pulse delay. I have not studied PI enough to be able to explain what changing the pulse width or pulse delay really buys you.

On the Sand Shark, I found a few targets and played with the pulse width until I got the best audio response with the coil lifted as far above the target as I could and still make out the target. I found that the setting for each target checked seemed to be a little narrower than the "preset" mark (slightly counter clockwise from the mark). I placed some chains on the ground and the Sand Shark saw them nicely. I did put the Sand Shark coil over a nice silver ring that was about 6 inches down and sounded out very clearly.

I have not tried to see if I can ID targets with the pulse width. Initial feeling is it is probably not likely. I do like VCO mode better than normal. It is a better pin point and sizing mode than normal mode.

On my VLF Tesoros I have learned to hear the broken and smoother sounds that tell me things. I have not yet identified similar details in the Sand Shark. They may be there, but I have not learned that part of the Sand Shark language yet.

I haven't looked at the PI forum in a while, but you may want to ask what pulse width and delay do and some of the other details on that forum if you haven't already.
tvr

 

[Digger28]

Thanks tvr for the details on the Sand Shark, I do appreciate the help. Great idea about the PI forum. I will post the question on the difference between delay and width there.

-Rick

 

[therover]

n/t

 

[tvr]

I have only used the 10 inch so far ... but also have the standard 8 inch sitting on the shelf as a back up.

 

[erikk]

Don't be afraid of the LS I have been using one for several months with very good results. I also have 2 Excals, a 1000 and a Excal 2. I like to use the LS on fairly clean beaches and the Excals everywhere else. I use the factory 10 x 14DD coil with the LS and it gives me a bit more coverage than the Excal For your situation I would highly recommend the LS. The whole secret to the LS is getting it ground balanced properly and moving SLOW. Another trick if you are using the water headphones is to put foam in the cups to reduce the volume as they are loud. It does have a learning curve but if you start out using it in the deeper water on clean beaches, dig everything you will soon learn what to listen for

 

[Digger28]

Hi erikk,

I have seriously considered the Infinium, I'd like to find a slightly used one for less money but folks don't seem to sell them too often.

I do like the audio tones for high and low conductivity. Although it seems strange that Garrett designers choose to use hi/low and low/hi double tones. Seems to me (simple minded as I am) that just a simple low tone and a simple high tone would make more sense and be less annoying on sites where targets are in close proximity.

Do you use the "iron check" feature? Do bobby pins and other small ferrous trash have some audio distinctiveness that a trained ear can pick up on after some field experience? It seems that some LS users intimate that this is the case.

You mentioned ground balancing. How difficult is it to ground balance the machine? Does it keep itself balanced once you begin hunting or is this something you redo during the hunt as conditions change?

Are you using the stock shaft or an after market one? Is the weight a problem? - it looks like a heavy unit.

Is the large 10X14 coil sensitive enough to find smaller gold rings? (not wire size)

Sorry for all of these questions but I do really appreciate your help.

 

[Digger28]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I purchased a like new Excalibur 1000, I know at least I will be able to hunt 2 of the beaches possibly more and the unit will work great here in the lakes of Michigan. This seemed like the best choice for the money and I got a sweet deal on the machine. HH to all.

-Rick