Bill W. further down this page you made the following statement...................

[Kelley (Texas)]

Re: "BUT, like I've said on this forum and the CZS forum that the 3D does horrible in modern areas."

Why do you consider the CZ-3D to be horrible in modern areas? I was of the opinion that the CZ-3D was a modified CZ-5 that would enable older coins to "sound off" in the high tone range. Is this not correct? If it is correct, why do you think it is horrible to use at a modern site? I would think that this would be a good trait. Please have a great day! Kelley (Texas)

 

[Anonymous]

is in the "Salt" mode, which is the same as Salt Mode on a CZ-5. If you use "Enhanced" mode in a modern area, the changed facets that allow the lower-conductive coins to come through as a high tone will allow more modern aluminum trash to come through as a high tone.

HH from Allen in MI

 

[Kelley (Texas)]

Will you lose much depth of detection in the "Salt Mode?" Are you the Allen that use to live in Tulsa? Kelley (Texas)

 

[Kelley (Texas)]

n/t

 

[OldeTymer]

The trash items that have the same electronic signature as the older coins will read a high tone as well. Unfortunately, that can't be avoided. What it does do though, is to allow you to hear older coins that were ignored because of where they read electronically. You can hunt a modern site, that may contain older coinage, using the enhanced mode, but it takes some getting used to.

The salt mode will cause a very slight loss of depth on tiny gold items, but no noticeable loss on coin-sized targets, and larger. The CZ20 gets great depth, and is locked in the salt mode.

Hope this helps,
OldeTymer
TheTreasureLeague.com

 

[WVAdirtdigger]

I know beavertails are the main problem. The 3D likes to ID them as a nickel with greater depth than they really are at. There are some older SQ tabs that will ID in the zinc/relic zone also. If you are in a newer ONLY site, run Salt mode. You really won't lose much depth. If you are in a mixed old and new site, run enhanced. Dig the extra junk because of the potential for nabbing the older coins. I am now using an EX II in addition to my 3D and I see these targets as numeric representations now and their properties are so close that I dig more junk with my EX II than I did with my 3D. I'm just too afraid that the next iffy target is a really good coin to pass it up.

Dave

 

[Bill W.]

The main reason I say the 3D is horrible in modern areas is how much trash you can dig using the 3D in enhanced mode. In enhanced mode you're more likely to dig piece of aluminum, modern screwcaps, and some squaretabs. In the nickel range the trash is usually foil and beavertails. To clarify my statement it should have been more like... The amount of trash you dig with 3D/enhanced is horrible in modern areas. Don't be afraid to use the salt mode in modern areas. I've used it before and dug wheaties, etc. at close to 9 inches. The only concern for the salt mode is having enough range in ground balance. In the really mild areas I've been in the 8 (GB scale) range in salt mode. I am unsure if you loose any performance if you hit 10 and have no more adjustment range. I have several old parks that I hunt. I've found some keepers pretty shallow that the 3D IDed correctly in enhanced mode but in salt mode it was IDed in a non-coin catagory. I've also seen nickel performance vary in reports from other areas. My 3D is great on nickels. But, I think it was Dave (WVAdirtdigger) that had his 3D vary on IDing nickels. I am not sure if it was the ground or a different rev. in his 3D vs. mine. I bought my 3D in the first two months of it being released. So, they *may* have changed something internally.

-Bill

 

[Anonymous]

Oldetymer beat me to the answer. On my CZ-5, up here in the iron-rich dirt of Michigan, I've actually noticed a slight increase in depth in the Salt mode, as it lessons the sensitivity to the iron mineralization in the dirt.

I've recently started digging more trash targets at many of my modern sites that also date back 100 years. While I haven't recovered any period coins this way, I have recovered a lot of brass items, and lots of scrap lead, along with a few modern coin spills that included a nickel and were averaged down to square tab.

I haven't been recovering many old coins at all lately, on land. However, I recently researched an old swimming hole, and have been hunting that on my days off. Check my posts over on the beach forum to see all the goodies I've been getting, as well as some action shots of me doing my thing.

HH from Allen in MI

 

[mtdoramike]

it would indicate round or beavertail pulltab, I would have to toggle over to salt mode and if it was a nickel, it would mostlikely indicate nickel on the meter. I took a had full of nickels, mostly Jefferson's a few India heads and one V nickel, (what I had) and did airtest + fresh buried tests and found that unless I swung the nickels like 60 miles per hour acroos the coil, they would all hit in mid tone, a couple would give a slight hi tone bounce, but that was rare. I found the same with the fresh buried nickels. All registered as Beavertail pulltab.

I spoke to Fisher about this and they said this was normal. Well, my wife hunts with a CZ5 and I was hunting with the CZ3d and after about 70 hours of hunting, her nickel count averaged for those hunts about 30-40 and mine was about 5. Plus, out of 25 digs, 23 or so would be trash in the enhanced mode because I hunt parks & schools and such mostly.

If you want to test your descrimination on the CZ3d, while in enhanced mode, crank the desrimination all the wayup to 6 and see if you can descriminate out a zinc penny, I bet you can't or should I say at least with mine you won't. But in salt mode you will. Some found this to be annoying, I didn't because I will dig zinc if theres nothing else around.

Now, I'm I knocking the 3d, nope, I think it's a good machinefor what it was intended for, which is old pre-1950's sites with little to no aluminum trash, but it didn't fit my type of hunting, now did I know this going in, yes, but did it make me not buy one, nope. Also, I have read posts about the CZ3d being a nickel killer, I didn't find that to be true with my 3d at all, but that's not saying that maybe the nickels weren't in the ground long enough since I hunt parks and such or maybe my machine wasn't right from the factory when it came to nickels.

But, I went from the CZ3d, to the Garrett GT&i1500 and my nickel count shot right back up and I went from 23 targets out of 25 being trash to 23 targets out of 25 being good targets. Now, am I leaving targets in the ground why most certainly, I've never seen a detector yet that will get all of them, but with health issues the less trash targets I have to dig the better for me.

 

[Kelley (Texas)]

balanced metal detector of the two for the average person. I just recently purchased the CZ-3D and have only used it twice, but it appeared to be very difficult to use in a heavily trash laden site in the "enhanced" mode, thus the reason that I asked the questions. Now that I know that the problem is that more trash is being allowed to enter the "high tone" range, I can adjust my hunting style as per se.

Having owned a CZ-5 in the past, I do question if the CZ-3D is really an improvement over the CZ-5 for my use under normal conditions. I had never used the "salt mode" when using the CZ-5. I need to get some miles under my belt using the CZ-3D before I can come to an honest opinion on this CZ-3D, but must confess that first impressions were not good. I will not be surprised if it eventually proves that the problem is me and not the CZ-3D. Thanks for the information. Kelley (Texas)

 

[Kelley (Texas)]

hunting a football field in Tulsa using the CZ-5, but that was a few years ago and my memory may be wrong. Thanks for the information, and please have a great day! Kelley (Texas)

 

[Bill W.]

I just did some airtest with 11 nickels with my 3D. GB-5, sens-5, volume-5 and disc open to accept everything. In salt mode the nickels IDed as follows 3 Foil, 3 Foil Nickel bounces (one was a nickel most of the swings but did bounce down to foil every couple of swings), 3 roundtab, and 2 IDed as nickels. All of them IDed as nickels in enhanced. That's kind of strange that you see that kind of difference between machines. My machine seems to be just as good with tests in the field that I've done. To me, it almost sounds like your enhanced and salt mode switch was reversed. Do you remember what your GB numbers were in enhanced vs. salt? That would be a sure way to tell. Surely, it has to be difference in the machine as they don't all give the same response in airtests. If it's not a reversed switch maybe a change in the rom made the difference. I'd be extremely curious to test a machine that hits those nickels like your 3D did. I think Dave (WVAdirtdigger) had similar issues with nickels. I forgot to test our 3Ds side by side when I was hunting with him last year. If I get to hunt with him this year I'll put that at the top of my list of to-do's. As far as zinc, I could ID them by running in salt mode. Then they IDed at the 3 icon from the right. For the areas I hunt I rarely run in salt mode but have done it at more modern sites were modern screwcaps are an issue. But, I agree that running in it enhanced that you can't tell a zinc from a dime. Flipping over to salt to ID them can be annoying. If I would hunt more modern areas I would have probably bought the CZ-70Pro or a CZ-5.

-Bill

 

[Bill W.]

The 'improvement' of the CZ-3D over the CZ-5 is only dependant on the sites you hunt. If you hunt more modern areas you should hunt in salt mode. Unfourtanely, the 3D may have not have been the ideal machine for the areas you hunt... The 3D is intended specifically for pre-1950's sites. I really wish that Fisher would have put a normal mode into the 3D... salt, normal, enhanced... That would have helped make it a better all around machine instead of a 'speciality' machine.

-Bill

 

[mtdoramike]

where I used it in enhanced mode, in salt mode if I recall, it would GB around 7 so there wasn't that much of a difference. I had several people tell me that it sounded like a problem with it, but when I called Fisher the tech guy said this is normal, it should register a nickel if it's been in the ground a long time and real crummy looking, but I found a few of those and that didn't help either. I tried running it in salt mode some, but I always felt that I was missing stuff and the depth was there. The deepest targets I was digging in salt mode were 5-6" now maybe I wasn't coming across anything deeper, but I know in enhanced mode, I was digging targets 8-10" deep with strong repeatable signals.

 

[Bill W.]

That does sound like your mode switch was wired correctly. I've messed around with the salt mode some and have been able to dig 9 inch coins with the 10.5 coil. That's very good depth around here especially in salt. My personal best is an IH at 10+ with the 3D in enhanced with the 10.5 coil. But, that kind of depth on a penny around here is extremely rare... at least in my experience. That really makes me wonder if there was a quality control issue with some of them. My buddy's wife bought a 3D about 3 months after I bought mine. The first machine wouldn't GB. I tested it with my coil and it still wouldn't GB. That machine had something wrong internally. The second machine she got (which was a different machine) was also bad. It would GB but could barely hit a nickel at 2 inches away. The third machine that made it into her hands has performed well since day one. She's dug deep coins that her husbands Explorer wouldn't hit on... so I know it's working close to what mine will do... That is the first and only time I've ever seen a problem with a Fisher first hand. Quality control problem, a bad shipment of electronics, or something? Makes you wonder doesn't it.

-Bill

 

[jackintexas]

Pardon me for saying so, but if I hunt where there is little or no trash then I am going to dig everything above iron. I would not hunt in the enhanced mode.

 

[WVAdirtdigger]

because Bill keeps using my name in vain here. It does seem like we have this discussion over and over too.

My 3D IDs OLD nickels very well. I have dug many V and buff nickels with it in enhanced mode. Most of them ID'ed as foil when flipped to salt mode. I can repeat this even now in air test with these nickels and have done so. Now it does ID some newer Jeffersons as Round PT. I'm Ok with that because I really don't care if I get them. That's just my style of hunting and the machine fits it well.

Go to Olde Tymer's website (TheTreasureLeague.com) and read my collection of posts there. When I was learning the 3D a few years ago, I saved all the posts pertaining to it. Especially NASA Tom's stuff. This will help you understand the machine better.

HH
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

One was a "retired" field, as the school had just built a newer one. I did that search, as best I could, with the 8" coil. I bought the 10.5" a couple days after I "finished" that field. I'd kill to be able to go back and hunt it again, with the 10.5" coil, assuming that the school hasn't bulldozed the field into baseball fields (that's what I heard they were going to do).

I did a few others, usually combination football/soccer fields, usually at elementary schools and such. I never did a thorough search, just testing the "waters" to see if there were any older goodies there.

I've searched a few up here as well. I got lucky with one, as it was older, and produced several Wheat's and silver coins.

HH from Allen in MI

 

[mtdoramike]

BIG mistake and I liked these two machines better then the CZ3d, BUT, not because the CZ3d wasn't a good machine in it's own right, but mainly because the CZ5 & CZ70 fit my style of hunting better. If I hunted older sites quite often, I would have mostlikely kept the CZ3d.

Now, was there a malfunction with my CZ3d regarding nickels & gold, well I can't say for sure because I haven't tried another 3d since. Now it could very well be that I was expecting more from the 3d then I should have and I probably was expecting it to act or perform like the CZ5 since they are basically the same machine in salt mode.

All I know is, I never got a nickel to hit in hi-tone nor any type of gold to hit in hi-tone either. So if I only dug hi-tone hits like the manual says, I would never find a nickel of any kind nor any gold jewelry. I attended a demonstration put on By Nasa Tom regarding the CZ3d, which made me purchase one and mine didn't perform like his did, but then again, I'm not near the detectorist Tom is nor do I claim to be.

So it could be operator error, machine error or a little of both.

 

[Bill W.]

Dave,

At least my memory serves me correct. I do dig a good bit of Jeffersons... most have been in the ground a while. I also dig nickels that haven't been in the ground all that long. I'd prefer to dig only buffalos and older... Sorry about using your name in vain...

-Bill