Battery Sand Seal?

[seahunter34]

As a shallow water machine I gave up on the CTX 3030 after 2 times being ruined by saltwater battery leaks. Minelab did fix them- though reluctantly the second time. The last I was told was that due to temperature change, there's contraction/expansion which allowed sand to get on the O-ring/Gasket and thus the leaks. The solution required cleaning the gasket every single time after coming out of the water and before going back in, which was just too much of a pain hitting several beaches in a day on vacation. Some guys I know silicone seal the battery!

So I have the bug to try the 3030 again and ask someone here to describe exactly what the new battery sand seal is? I did a quick internet search and still have no idea how this seal works? I read older machines have been upgraded. Even on the ML sight I did not see an explanation. Now if I keep searching... perhaps? But it's just faster for me to ask the experts here!

So where exactly is this seal? Is there a new battery design with a second new seal? Or is it a new type of seal/O-ring that replaces the original? Lastly, does it do what it claims... has this stopped the leaking? Thanks!

 

[Stogger]

Most of my hunting is on the beach in the water, wet sand, and dry sand, and back into wet sand. I usually go for 8-13 hours straight. So far I've been lucky to not have the gasket leak but I do clean it every day after hunting. I also never take the battery off until I get home. To add additional safety I started doing what Andy Sabisch recommended, and that is adding a slight coating of silicon grease to the gasket (some vacuum greases works well). It is not silicon sealer, just grease. I have the old type gasket that seems to be working for now, so I've refrained from buying the new type.

 

[dewcon4414]

O rings. Com just get a 2.5 mm. I do not use silicone... it makes astick mess to me. I prefer the ole military was. Run the gasket under hot water that not only gets the salt off but give it back the natural stickness. I dont remove the o ring every hunt. I do use an art brush to get the sand off. I also rinse the machine at the beach and dont remove the battery until I get home. Ive got the old machine. I put in a few hours on the beach too

Dew

 

[Champ Ferguson]

I hate to hear of your problems, but you really need to do a thorough cleaning every time on any machine that you expose to salt water. If you are really pressed for time, you can get away with every battery charge but not cleaning will lead to other problems on any machine (corrosion, stuck shaft, etc). Maybe even end the hunt a few minutes early if you have to.

fwiw, I don't use the Si grease because it would cause a lot more time cleaning. I don't fault those that do tho. Oh, and what the others said about not removing the battery until you get back to a (relatively) clean room.

 

[trojdor]

So where exactly is this seal? Is there a new battery design with a second new seal? Thanks!

Yes. Here's a pic from Minelab site:
https://www.minelab.com/customer-care/product-notices?article=269893

It's kind of hard to tell, but that's a new flat gasket around the perimeter of the battery...designed to keep sand from easily getting to the newer, slightly larger o-ring.
(Which if you look very closely isn't an o-ring at all but a kind of 'u' shaped cross section.)

Or is it a new type of seal/O-ring that replaces the original?

Yes, that as well. The red seal was updated to a slightly beefier grey seal.

Lastly, does it do what it claims... has this stopped the leaking?

No idea.
I'm sure it helps...


mike

 

[treasure_hunter]

Repair center has reported they see a huge decline in battery leaks sent in since the new gray sand gasket came out.

 

[seahunter34]

Stogger...Thanks for your help. Only problem is it only takes one small leak in saltwater and the CTX is destroyed! Kind of like gambling?

 

[seahunter34]

Champ, that's what ML said.... it was my fault for not cleaning. Only I did clean and ML did not like it much when I said "waterproof" is waterproof and none of my other water machines leak like this. Clearly this is a poor design and finally why ML did something about it. Also the CTX battery does not last that long and in the field changes are required... which can be difficult to do in the hot Caribbean sun with sunscreen, sand and sweat out of a rental vehicle!

 

[seahunter34]

Mike, thanks for your response. Without actually seeing the new seal, I thought they added a second seal of sorts as a sand barrier. But you say all they did was replace the old red gasket/O-ring with a new design. It was confusing to me when ML said they were upgrading dealer units, as I pictured dealers having to send the machines back to ML, when all they did was replace the seal? In my mind I envisioned a new battery design with some new second barrier seal... when all it is, is a replacement gasket? ML should have just said... Hey, we have a replacement seal. Take out the old red one and replace with new black one...

So am I correct that it's just a replacement seal? Or has ML also redesigned the battery housing? It really is a bit scary knowing 1 small saltwater leak can ruin a $2,500 machine instantly, and why I'm so concerned about this. One would think such an expensive detector would not leak so easily. I'm not saying other machines do not leak... but their design is better avoiding leaks in the first place. In over 20 years only 2 machine designs have leaked on me. The CTX and twice and an early DP Headhunter PI. Detector Pro resolved their problem with the new Underwater design. My SeaHunter, Infinium, ATX, Excalibur, CZ20, PI Pro, 1280X, Tiger Shark, Sand Shark and more such as a Barracuda, Piranha, Fisher, Aqua... never leaked on me and with hours of use in the water.

I do want to try a 3030 again and hope the new "sand" seal resolves the leaking. One simply should not have to silicone seal or add a large rubber band to keep battery locked in place on an expensive waterproof machine.

 

[trojdor]

No, re-read my post more carefully, and click on the link to see a picture.
They did indeed "add a second seal of sorts as a sand barrier"...which you can see (barely) at the link provided.
It helps to have the older battery in your hand to compare to what's on the screen.

They changed the battery housing and added a new flat gasket around the perimeter of the battery...designed to keep sand from easily getting to the newer, slightly larger o-ring.
Which of course means there is ALSO a newer, slightly larger o-ring....which they changed the color to grey.

So, there is a newer battery design with a flat gasket AND a newer, beefier o-ring.
mike

 

[seahunter34]

Thanks Mike! I saw that photo when it was first released by ML and it just was not clear to me as what the changes were. By then I had sold my CTX and just was not interested enough to call ML and find out what changed. But I do recall it seemed more than just a gasket swap. Since I'm interested in another 3030 I've been looking on the used market and discovered obvious lower pricing as well as more included extras like coils, headphones... v.s. a higher priced new machine with warrantee and fewer extras I need. Knowing full well the sinking feeling of ruining a 3030 on vacation twice, I'm trying to decide if the new sand seal makes buying a new CTX the route I should take? Or if I can upgrade a used machine and at what cost and if the new seal makes any real difference? I would hope it does, but so far have not read anything on the upgrade in actual field use. Obviously the CTX was not designed as a true water/dive machine and perhaps I just expect too much? Thanks again.

 

[trojdor]

You are most welcome.

That's a tough choice to make, and I'm not sure which way I'd go if I were in your shoes.

Whichever route you choose, good luck and have fun!


mike

 

[dewcon4414]

The problem with smaller O rings is it takes more than a cleaning......... you need to replace them more often. I see that a good bit on coil rubber washers. We tend to think they never wear, get flat, or dry rot. Another problem is WHERE they put those connections in the box. I mean come on....... you set your machine down and where does that very small amount of salt water go? That fix alone would have saved many a CTX.

Dew

 

[seahunter34]

I finally found on an Australian detector dealers site more details and photos of the sand seal. From January 2016 onwards ML made improvements to the 3030. One of which is the sand seal fitted to the battery in addition to the O-ring. The battery terminals also have a new additional seal. The other stated changes are a new push-button armrest lock and smaller diamond pattern on the CF shafts, making for easier assembly somehow? Modified new machines have a sticker on the box saying: NEW MECHANICAL DESIGN IMPROVED WATERPROOFING. The author feels the new sand seals really make the detector waterproof with a tight lock-up.

Since I will be using the CTX mostly as a shallow water machine, the new sand seal sounds very good. So I just ordered a new CTX 3030 today. I was also told by another dealer that the new sand seal battery fits older machines. While good deals can be had on the used market and the ability to purchase new sand seal batteries, I still decided to go new- got a great price and this way will have a warrantee should it somehow leak again.

 

[Champ Ferguson]

Seriously, whatever you decide to get for beach hunting, take the time to service/clean the machine thoroughly/properly after each salt use.

 

[smkunder]

So do you have to get a new battery and gasket to update to new system ? Or does machine have to go back to Minelab for update?

 

[tcornel]

Back to minelab. New battery and upper housing??. The killer is the charging station. It will cost about 400 total.

 

[JamesBondaka]

About 3 years now since the update with no problems and lots of water time

 

[smkunder]

Wow that update really seems expensive! for something that it should be able to do in the first place. Guess I will have to think this one trough and just reserve water hunting for my Excalibur.

 

[RoyW]

Back to minelab. New battery and upper housing??. The killer is the charging station. It will cost about 400 total.

Nope. There is no change to the upper housing. There is no need for a new charging station. The sand and seal upgrade will cost you a total of $149, It consists of one new style battery, one new style alkaline battery holder and three new style O-rings. As mentioned before the new batteries (and new alkaline battery holders) have a slightly different design around the mating edge that includes a gasket surface and tabs that fit into the grooves in the latch hinges and also a new seal around the electronic connection. The new kit fits the old CTX's and the old chargers just fine. I purchased my CTX in 2012, as soon as they were available at my dealer. I don't think you are going to find a much older ctx or ctx battery charger than mine in the US. I got the kit last week and all works just fine. The new battery has a clearly more secure fit in the CTX. Definitely gives a better sense in confidence that it will be leak proof. The important thing to understand is that as far as the new water sealing is concerned, the only change is to the battery and the O-ring and that it is completely user upgradable.

The other part of the 2016 hardware upgrade consists of a new arm cuff latch design. If you want that, it DOES require a trip back to Minelab. The new water seal just requires the kit. https://www.bigboyshobbies.net/minelab-li-ion-rechargeable-battery-pack-for-ctx-3030