Ball of confusion

[mwaynebennett]

I have noticed a bit of confusion on this board about the meaning of the term "All Metal Mode."
I too was confused until I started studying the various BH models and actually bought another model and tested it.

With the Elite 2200 and the similar varieties, there are distinct tones for each metal grouping type, a total of 4 tones. With the Pioneer 505 as well as other BH models, there is the ability to switch from the tones (3 for the Pioneer 505) to what appears to be a BFO or Beat Frequency Oscillator mode that treats all metal the same and only varies the pitch of the squeal as a function of the size of the target and its distance from the coil. So the only (All Metal Mode" option for people with BH machines like the Elite 2200 is to not discriminate any metal and allow the machine to detect all metals.

I have found that the pin pointing (all metal mode) of the Pioneer is no more accurate in locating a target than using the "Xing" method with the Elite 2200. The all metal mode target pin pointing is easier to learn than the "Xing" method but no faster or accurate.

Mark
Elite 2200
Pioneer 505
WA St.

 

[doc-jim]

[size=medium]I cannot speak about the 2200 but the all metal mode sure helps pinpoint with the Pioneer 505.. Trick is to use it correctly. When I feel the need for a better pinpoint I switch to the All Metal Mode which is No-Motion. Then push the ground cancel adjustment as normal. When I start centering my target I will RE push the ground cancel button which then quiets the tone down to make a finer point. Sometimes I REcancel 2 or 3 times as I close in on target, often just a little bit away from center of target where the tone volume starts to drop off... If I just were to use as normal it would give results you describe, but by taking it down in steps narrows the area by reducing response/sensitivity. Certainly NOT faster, but quite a bit more accurate & sure beats digging around in wider circles.
Actually I usually use my Harbor Frieght $15 metal detector probe after making an initial hole, but since they have VERY limited range (less than 2") I often fall back on the No-Motion All Metal Mode for those Hide & Seek targets...
I also find the large (8"-10") coils can often find 2 seperate 'Centers' for the same coin & I have dug several inches away from a 4" deep coin more than I can say. Having this decent PinPoint method saves my knees & my time.
I speak from actual recent experience as I have just dug more than $95 in coins over the last few weeks at a local site I discovered. Virtually all in recent clad quarters & dimes, though I did ignore most of the post 1982 (zinc) pennies, This was around a large school stadium built as a bowl that the kids have been rolling & sliding down the outsides for years... I found it sort of by accident, looking for my sons friends ring. "DOC" [/size]

 

[JJ]

You will get twice as much depth out of the 505's all metal vs. the 2200's. The only confusion is with those who have never used both. If the 505's all metal mode had a pitch variation (not tone or beep) relative to a targets conductivity, it would be a minelab! JJ

 

[Hamp]

Mark,

In some detectors there is an all metal mode that is different from just no discrimination. That is why the term "No Motion All-Metal mode " is used for what some call pinpoint mode. If you have a No Motion All-Metal mode you can use the side of the coil as a pinpointer, I no longer carry a hand held pinpointer.

When you hear two beeps in one direction, but only one beep at the right angle to the double, and if they are all good coin IDs, then the most likely find is a coin on edge and you should dig between the double beep.

 

[mwaynebennett]

Mark,

In some detectors there is an all metal mode that is different from just no discrimination. That is why the term "No Motion All-Metal mode " is used for what some call pinpoint mode. If you have a No Motion All-Metal mode you can use the side of the coil as a pinpointer, I no longer carry a hand held pinpointer.

When you hear two beeps in one direction, but only one beep at the right angle to the double, and if they are all good coin IDs, then the most likely find is a coin on edge and you should dig between the double beep.

That is what I explained in this thread. The Pioneer 505 has the "no-motion" "Pin pointing mode" but I find it no faster or accurate than simply Xing the target in the discrimination or "non no motion" mode." Maybe I need to practice more with it.

Regarding a hand held PP, I find them handy to find what part of the plug contains the target. Some targets turn out to be tiny fishing sinkers that have become the same color as the surrounding soil and I find that the hand PP really helps locating those. Also, occasionally after removing the plug, the target remains in the hole and it would be difficult inserting the edge of an 8" diameter coil into a 4" dia hole.

Several weeks ago I encountered a fellow with a Minelab machine with a small coil. His had the no-motion capability and I found he was no more accurate in precisely locating targets than was I using the Xing method.

Mark
Elite 2200
Pioneer 505
WA St.

 

[JJ]

Several weeks ago I encountered a fellow with a Minelab machine with a small coil. His had the no-motion capability and I found he was no more accurate in precisely locating targets than was I using the Xing method.

I can't disagree with that. Double D coils are a little tricky to pinpoint with in any mode compared to concentric coils. Raising the coil will help both narrow the field for a more accurate pinpoint on smaller objects. Hamp's trick using the side of the coil works well but you don't hear of many doing it. I think the comparison I made earlier was more toward how great it would be if the 505's monotone all metal mode wasn't monotone and had some range. Digging 4" plugs is fine for shallow clad shooting but you will damage some nicer finds if you ever have to go deeper. If you are worried about damaging the manicured lawn at your park, practice digging horseshoe/trapdoor plugs and use a dropcloth for any excess dirt. Nobody will know you were there. JJ

 

[mwaynebennett]

JJ:

I do use a 20" x 20" piece of upholstery vinyl upon which to place the spoils. This ensures that the soil gets back into the hole.

I encountered a fellow who uses a steel screwdriver to "probe" for the target. It seems to me that such a tool would plow a scratch into any ring or coin of value. I was thinking of designing a probe with irreplaceable tips made of nylon or some soft metal.

Mark
Elite 2200
Pioneer 505
WA St.

 

[JJ]

A brass probe with a rounded tip is safe to use. I believe I mentioned this to you a while back but you stated that your soil contained too much rock for any kind of probe to be of use. JJ

 

[mwaynebennett]

Locally the soil is rocky but lately I have been venturing to other areas.

Mark

 

[doc-jim]

RE All Metal Mode 505, I can confirm that all metal mode gives MUCH greater depth but is also too sensitive for most general use. I do use it occasionally but mostly for pinpointing. I find Disc provides the best choice overall UNLESS I was specifically looking for DEEP targets or prospecting gold.. BUT as I described above, the best way to use All Metal (No Motion ) as a PinPointer is to reset the ground balance as you get closer to reduce the signal report. Usually 2 to 4 times as you get closer will have it beeping only when directly over target... With a little practice it is a VERY simple & quick process. Just tap the ground balance button as you locate the target center... Try this a few times yourself..
PinPointer, The Harbor Freight Nail Finder for $15 works nearly as well as others costing much more Though distance is limited to under 2". I use it to check the sides or bottom of my hole when a coin is being elusive & I especially like that it has an LED that lights up the probe tip area. It's only on while you hold the thumb button down, squeals loudly on target, & has adjustable sensitivity. I do not use it frequently put as it fits in a shirt pocket is a handy timesaver. ( Actually, The carry case has a velcro 2 piece belt loop & I just sewed a bit of velcro to my pouch & stick the case there, making for handy access)
RE; ground cloths & soil, I also use a 24" square of vinyl/cloth which rolled up fits easily along side my tool. I have not had good luck with probes so use a narrow stainless digging tool which I sharpened the front & 1 side edge. I cut a "flap" of soil & flip it over the cloth when I can. This leaves the grass somewhat rooted & by the looks of the school yards I have been working the last few weeks, works well to retain grass integrity. This avoids hitting the coin with the tool especially when there are several coins in the same hole.. DOC