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[Rob (IL)]

I saw this post recently. I think our brain is the best computer, but what is your opinion. I know Whites is watching.

If White's is really going to complete out there, they'll have to automate many features that the computer box is capable of handling. Automatic coil selection. Hot Rocks detection. Soil and Ground mineralization. Recovery Delay. Swing Speed. Ground Tracking and Speed. EMI detection (offset). [size=large]ROB[/size]

 

[earthmansurfer]

The V3i has perhaps the most powerful chip of any detector out there (and it needs to). I think A LOT of people want to be able to find what others can't but they can't or won't put in the time. But some times it's just not humanly possible to make adjustments like a computer can. Yeah, we can hear the nuances in the sound, but what about hunting in iron that varies in consistency, ground that is just plain all around tough? What if your sites vary a lot? Wouldn't it be nice if the software Could take care of that? (as an option - I don't "need" it per say.) That way you get maximum depth and maximum results constantly. There is no way that a person could adjust that often, it just isn't possible and even if it was it would take a superman to constantly be monitoring everything. I'm afraid the way the V3i is (even though it might be the best machine out there), is seen as a bit of a niche machine due to it's "apparent" complexity (which is really not that true - at least not in my soil). I've heard from more than one person that when they left a site they wondered if they had their settings set the best they could! I know I did, but I often test on targets and such. Computers beat Chess Grand Masters these days and the list goes on. I think to get maximum results you will have to involve the computer more. At least as a choice.

The V3i is upgradable. Maybe the best way to answer this question Rob is to say "Would you send your V3i back for an upgrade that contained an Auto Mode w/ smart technology?" or something like that." I know I'd send mine back in. I love tweaking settings but if the computer can do better than me then I'd have to use that "mode" sometimes, at least in areas that I think I cleaned out. And if I see it's clearly better than I can be, then I might go with the Auto mode as my main mode. Imagine finding a target in "Auto Smart Mode" and then switching to your "settings" and finding it doesn't pick it up. You could learn and become better that way by seeing what the computer did.

Or how about this, "Would you buy a V3i with an Auto Smart Mode?" I just bet a lot of people would jump on board.

Another question - Would White's sell more V3i's if it had this Smart Auto Mode? You can bet the farm they would. The E-Trac has been doing something similar for years with a less powerful processor, albeit it's a different technology. If it didn't have as much computer controls as it does I doubt it would have been as successful but again, it's a different technology and perhaps could be done no other way.

 

[Rob (IL)]

So as I asked, which features do you think need to be automated? I'm sure there will be some automation in the future but if you can't have it all which would be the most useful or needs to be improved? ROB

 

[earthmansurfer]

I don't mind the V3i the way it is. All I'm saying is if an upgrade was offered with a Smart Search Mode, I would pay for that option.

Regarding what others have problems with, first I'd say White's has a lot better idea than me and the history of the forums would be the best indicator (but I'm sure they have already done that). I haven't given this much thought but what I've noticed from reading the forums is the following would help a lot of people:

The first thing that jumps at me is filters. I have no problem with this, but e.g., if a newbie has the 10 band set (like on a lot of stock programs) and their ground is mild, they will lose targets. I have tested this on deeper coins (over 5" deep) and it happens in my mild soil. I imagine that you could still have the factory program and then press a button and the machine will find the best filter for your ground and swing. EMI of course has to be taken into account.

The second thing would be recovery delay. I find it actually quite forgiving, even on deep targets. I used a RD from 60 to 90 today on the D2 coil and outside of the sound length, there was not a big difference in the quality of the target response. (90 won out for me though!) I imagine if the computer adjusted it for your swing and ground conditions it would make for better target response. When running correlate though, it seems the higher RD works better. There are lots of situations and what if's here. e.g., Running correlate sometimes means a different filter might be better. And also, some like a lower and others a higher RD.

Autotrack recommended setting. It could do this in the background and adjust it automatically (of course you should be able to over-ride it). Most people eventually figure this out, but why not have the software get it really close?

I think the original sensitivity + zoom was going in the right direction as far as setting up sensitivity. Though the V3i gets great depth anyway, I imagine having a recommended sensitivity setting or even an automated sensitivity would benefit most users. A good analogy here is auto track and ground track, I have found autotrack does more of a job than I could in difficult ground. Perhaps the same could be said for sensitivity (etc.). This might be a bit complicated though...

There are some crazy suggestions out there as far as automation goes, but I think the preceding is reasonable. Oh yeah, please put a run time clock and clock on the unit!

I hope that is of some help. Again, I don't have a problem (now) with setting up the machine. But if I could compare what I decide to run with what the software deems the best, why that would be like having you there Rob Kidding, but I hope you see my point.

 

[Cedar-Acres]

I know this isn't an automation issue, but I too would like to see a clock on the system. I have had many times I could have used a clock display and an alarm clock function to let me know when I need to stop and go take care of my responsibilities. As we all know, when you really get going at this hobby then time dilation takes over and you soon run out of time to play in the field!

As for automation. I would like to see some screens that after you make several swings on site the unit would show you some recommended settings that you can choose to select if you wish. Not necessarily make changes automatically, but a screen that will read the ground, run the results through some algorithms and present suggested settings to optimize for that situation.

 

[Dingo Darnell]

I think the V3i is the best detector in the world. No doubt about it. That's why I bought it. I also think it's the most complicated. Complicated to the point of diminishing returns.

I also have a Minelab X-Terra 705 that I just won in a contest. I spent just 3 days reading some threads on their website and going over the manual. I totally got this thing mastered.

I wish Whites would understand the "beauty of simplicity" because it's so obvious when I see the overwhelming amount of coins, gold and relics these people find in their first month with these $700 Minelab detectors,

I get frustrated with my V3i because of it's complicated method of getting into the finer qualities of the V3i. If Whites is really watching, I really do wish they'd do something about it.

They could sell all of these Minelab guys V3i's if it was just as simple to operate. They have to spend a small fortune and buy another coil if they just want to change frequencies.

Everytime I watch earthmansurfer's videos, (which I really appreciate) it becomes all to clear to me that we'd all be so much better off if our V3i's were more automated with 95% less button pushing.

Just look at the thread where the guy spent 500 hours with his V3i and found just a handful of coins. Then look at the thread on the Minelab X-Terra forum of what a guy found in his first month with his Minelab and you tell me if you agree that simpler is better.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,1556245

 

[Rob (IL)]

This was the feeling of one person on another forum. I won't argue peoples opinions that's what I asked for. Really the V3i is only as complicated as you want to make it. If you just use the stock programs all that would ever be required for most people would be 4 or 5 adjustments and most of the time 3. Whites does make a SUPER uncomplicated deep detector in that price range. It is called the MXT. It will do everything the 705 will do. It's up to you what you want and Whites covers all the bases.

You don't have to change colors, deep reading choices, live control order etc. That's why they made the VX3. The V3i can be as complicated or simple as you want. You can even make your V3i a VX3.

What I was doing was giving you a chance to give specific auto options you would like to see in an update or new detector. Whites does a good job of listening. Some people like automation but some like manual and the V3i gives you the choice. ROB

 

[CyberSage]

Rob,
In regards to the automation of the V3i, one item that would be beneficial to the average user would be dealing with EMI. The only other thing I would like to see is conditional logic settings. An example would be...

IF VDI> 70 AND Depth>5 Inches AND Dominent Frequency = 2.5 THEN Show Response.

This might require running in mixed mode, but wouldn't that be a neat ability?

 

[GoVidGo]

GPS tracking or GPS placement. I used a Android GPS app on my smart phone to pinpoint a old foundation I had found in the woods about 1/2 hour from an old mining camp I was walking too. Can also use it in the winter when you can pinpoint mark targets to dig when the weather gets warmer to dig. The GPS app I use puts you within 2 feet if you return and would be awesome to have that function built on the detector...

First major company that puts #1 GPS location marker,and #2 an all-weather package (like the garrett AT-Pro) will have sales thru the roof....

 

[Rob (IL)]

Again the question isn't what features can be added, but which of the existing features should be automated instead of the user having to adjust it manually.

Now with that said a waterproof V3i like the AT Pro, Hmm. I like that, I could hunt in the rain, in fresh water, and salt water. It could do everything. I could sell one of my detectors. OK.

 

[Elton]

Auto GB...... One push of the button
Auto Track....... Instant response while your detecting
EMI..........Auto Adjust
Auto Set Sensitivity for ground your hunting..with manual override for areas where more depth is possible.

Auto sweep speed adjust for max performance of each user after a few sweeps of the coil.

 

[CyberSage]

How about screen brightness adjustment?

 

[Dingo Darnell]

I wish they would make as much as possible automatic. Just turn it on, set the threshold, wave it up and down then scan over the soil for an automatic perfect maximum depth settings, the frequency with the least noise, best RX gain etc.

Since iron sometimes reads a higher VDI before cancelling out on the lower VDI, maybe have the iron audibly trigger once then automatically discriminate out. If it's getting too many signals at once maybe it could beep and readout "Slow down sweep speed for maximum depth" or "would you like to automatically recalibrate your filter settings for your faster sweep speed?, Some depth may be sacrificed" or "Automatically setting recovery speed"

Simple yes or no answers would be great. The knowledge that the microprocessor is setting the machine for the maximum efficiency is priceless to me. The thought of not having it set right, wasting my time (and good targets) because of (my) human error is a drawback.

 

[earthmansurfer]

I think a very useful feature and I havent' seen it on other machines would be to simply hold the VDI's on the screen, as they appear, for a single sweep. This needs some explaining to be clear.

For example, I was hunting today and got a good VDI in one direction, though jumpy. Then turning 90 degrees and on a single swing 3 VDI's flashed by quick. I could barely make out the good VDI in the middle with junk on the left and right of it. The numbers flash by so quick that it is near impossible to catch them all and my swing speed was quite reasonable. If we could see the few numbers that scroll by, that would be very very useful (especially for those hunting in iron/trash).

The information is there in the machine and would be easy to implement. The VDI could flash something like -74 56 74 (as it happens). Then when you check your swing at another angle you are able to easier confirm the good target. This information only appears on my spectragraph very very briefly. The change matches the VDI "flash by". I don't think this is related to "fade rate".

In the expert menu under spectragraph you can have an option like "multiple VDI's".

 

[lawsonland]

Auto ground balance!!!

 

[nw1886]

I'd like to see an automated "EMI" button that cycles through the adjustments known to help, locks 'em in relation to a sample and goes three tone. (Never would need it now but would have helped early on.) Maybe another thing would be an inertial recognition coil combined with a "sweet zone" bar for matching up recovery delay to a target cluster. Guess another thing would be a single button that would initiate a pop up window to see the strengths/weaknesses of each filter on "same" target. With digital and this era of processors.....easy.

 

[mgtmadness]

It seems too me almost every program people use for the V3i is that ratchet pinpointing is off, same with the DFX. This is because Ratchet Pinpointing seems too detune really fast making pinpointing the target or even finding the target afterwards difficult.
If this could be changed to make the ratcheting slower by using something like -1,-2,-3 and so on too slow ratchet pinpointing down, it may be used more and allow it too work better and allow the user to find the size of the target better.
Currently RPP is off on my DFX and if I want too detune the size too see if it is a coin size object I ratchet( pull and release, pull and release) the pin point switch too make the pinpoint area footprint smaller too find out if the target is small (coin size)and too locate the center.
So an auto speed or manual speed adjust for ratchet pinpoint would work nice(RPP -1,-2,-3 slower)etc or using it as a set of 5's) ( RPP -5,-10,-15 slower)b/c currently it works too fast for most.
Maybe if it is possible the pinpoint detection wide SIZE changeable. I do not know the PP detection width the V3i has right now. It could be dependant on the coil size. Half the width or size of the currently used coil?? If the coil used is the 10"dd, would the PP detection width/size be 5 inches?? And then the RPP if used would keep changing it smaller and smaller, but doing it too fast for users, that is why it is always off?

 

[cncfan]

Just getting back into MD'ing. After reading and watching many Youtube videos on the V3i I dropped by a dealer yesterday to look at a V3i thinking this is the one for me. After telling him I would not be able to buy for a few months he still took the time to find out what I wanted to use it for. Being new to the area and getting back into MD'ing after about 25 years he strongly suggested the MXT instead of the V3i as he said I will be spending more time ground balancing the V3i and most likely miss a lot of what I am looking for. So it is a MXT for me now and if the V3i gets auto ground balance I will most likely get one.
Up side is I will be able to get a MXT a lot sooner than a V3i

 

[Rob (IL)]

I don't understand. You basically ground balance them both the same. I've had an MXT. They both have the auto track or lock track option. The MXT is an excellent detector, so good luck.

 

[mgtmadness]

It seems too me almost every program people use for the V3i is that ratchet pinpointing is off, same with the DFX. This is because Ratchet Pinpointing seems too detune really fast making pinpointing the target or even finding the target afterwards difficult.
If this could be changed to make the ratcheting slower by using something like -1,-2,-3 and so on too slow ratchet pinpointing down, it may be used more and allow it too work better and allow the user to find the size of the target better.
Currently RPP is off on my DFX and if I want too detune the size too see if it is a coin size object I ratchet( pull and release, pull and release) the pin point switch too make the pinpoint area footprint smaller too find out if the target is small (coin size)and too locate the center.
So an auto speed or manual speed adjust for ratchet pinpoint would work nice(RPP -1,-2,-3 slower)etc or using it as a set of 5's) ( RPP -5,-10,-15 slower)b/c currently it works too fast for most.
Maybe if it is possible the pinpoint detection wide SIZE changeable. I do not know the PP detection width the V3i has right now. It could be dependant on the coil size. Half the width or size of the currently used coil?? If the coil used is the 10"dd, would the PP detection width/size be 5 inches?? And then the RPP if used would keep changing it smaller and smaller, but doing it too fast for users, that is why it is always off?

I think this is a good Idea. Get in touch with me and we will talk about the details.