Asking Permission from Corporate Owners

[togamac]

I've located several old home sites on USGS maps and have found that the land is now owned by LLC's or Corporations. These types of owners have liability foremost in their minds. I want to write to request permission to MD these sites but don't want to waste my time and postage.

Do any of you have suggestions for increasing my chances of gaining permission?

Thanks.

 

[Steve O]

I have tried once to get permission on an old farm property that was sold to Walmart. I first talked to the guard, he said he found a bag of IH pennies in the old stone farmhouse just before demo. He said to call the commercial real estate company handling the deal. That's exactly what they said "liability issue". They also told me there was a hunter suing them because he got hurt hunting the property. I told them I would sign a waver, no joy.......they really don't have time for that, or could care less. Now, when I pass by the site, the excavating is taking place.

 

[GKMan]

Like Steve O said, unless you have an in of some sort you're going to have a tough time getting permission. Around me I see this a lot, big developers, llc's with obscure mailing addresses just going to lawyers offices in NYC... Frustrating for sure.

Create connections mentioning detecting and doors do open up.

 

[GKMan]

I forgot to mention the millionaires, billionaires and celebrity landowners in the area that are inaccessible.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Like the others have said, you will probably just get "no's" from a nameless faceless corporation. I mean .... put yourself in their shoes: why should they be bothered? And afterall, you're only going to get a front person (whatever secretary answers the phone in some remote city in some other state). Who in turn will pass you on to someone who doesn't want to be bothered either.

And this "song and dance" about liability is just a convenient "go to" answer for them to be able to tell you "no". So telling them you'll get insurance proofs, or sign waivers, won't change their answer on that (even though you would *think* it solves that issue, right?). And here's why: I know from owning my own company, that even something as simple as passing insurance spec's back and forth (certificates evidencing liability insurance) are still just one more step/hurdle of paperwork. Or you signing a waiver is just *one more thing* they need to review, check wording on, etc... And let's face it: even if you did slip and fall, and did have to use "your own insurance", yet it can still create steps of paperwork for them. And crafty lawyers could circumvent things, blah blah blah.

So put yourself in their shoes: why should they be bothered?

Where I'm at, is all agriculture row-crops. And starting in about the 1940s and 50s, it was no longer viable for individual little farm owners of 30 to 50 acres to make a living. As farm equipment got more mechanized, all the little land-owners around here sold out (or now lease anyhow) to the mega-cooporations. So the buck would now stop at the door-steps of mega cooporations, who would have say so over endless millions of acres in my part of the state. I suspect you'd never even get a call back, or a letter answered from any of them (why should they be bothered?). However, none of it is fenced. It's all laced with dirt roads that anyone can drive on. Nothing to stop anyone from pulling over and walking out in any field anywhere here. About the only thing any farmworker would care about is crop theft (at maturity/harvest time), or equipment/recyclable theft. But when it's just sitting fallow ..... well .......

 

[Joel-Winnipeg]

I have tried once to get permission on an old farm property that was sold to Walmart. I first talked to the guard, he said he found a bag of IH pennies in the old stone farmhouse just before demo. He said to call the commercial real estate company handling the deal. That's exactly what they said "liability issue". They also told me there was a hunter suing them because he got hurt hunting the property. I told them I would sign a waver, no joy.......they really don't have time for that, or could care less. Now, when I pass by the site, the excavating is taking place.

Can't detect the location check out the area where there speading the dirt .

 

[GKMan]

for me if I was desperate enough to detect a place I could live with some sort of quasi permission from a farmhand or someone out in the field.but short of getting that I wouldn't just wander on.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

ha, well yes, a few of us have been known to do that ! Ask the spanish speaking fieldworker there (in our best attempt at speaking spanish). And more often than not, they shrug their shoulders, and say go ahead. Then why would I argue with that? If .... later on .... some higher field-boss (owner or whatever) comes along and says "what are you doing here?", we can just say: "a guy last year said we could".

 

[BillF]

Sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission.
I hate to say it, but if I see someplace I want to hunt, I hunt it. If they have no trespassing signs on the fence I don't go in. No signs, its open season.
A couple months ago I was hunting a yard of an abandoned home that's been vacant for 10 years, hunted it 5 or 6 times before.
There are for sale signs on the property.
I looked up and a deputy sheriff was walking up to me. He told me that if someone wanted to trespass me off the property he would have to do it. And take anything I found.
Needless to say, I didn't show him my finds, and nobody had called about me there, he just wanted tell me this info. Turned out he knows my wife(law enforcement) and was more than happy toleave me alone.
My point, if there is one, is that unless you will be stepping on someone's toes or there are obvious signs saying KEEP OUT, go hunt it. Just keep in mind that there could be repercussions.

 

[Steve O]

I wouldn't go on a property without permission. No signs doesn't mean the owner will be ok with you on his property....you can't assume that. If there were signs for everything we can't do.......imagine what that would look like.
I would go the extra step to locate the owner if I wanted to detect a property bad enough. Getting caught is a bit belittling and embarrassing. Yes, BTDT, learned my lesson.... It's very tempting.

 

[BillF]

SteveO,
I used a vacant house as an example, but this is a corporate owned property that's for sale to have apartments built on it.
If it was an individual private property I would have used the info I get from tax records to contact the owner and ask permission.
If I see 15-20 boarded up homes slated for demo because Walmart is building on that block, I go hunt it. Unless they have a fence built around it. Same with state and city property. Its a calculated risk I'm willing to take. I have never had any trouble in these types spots and if someone shows up, they probably would just ask me to leave.

 

[togamac]

Confession time. I have in the past entered non-posted properties. No harm, no foul. But as I've become smarter about metal detecting, I've come to realize that I wasn't doing the hobby any favors if I got caught and it ended up in the paper like John from Edmonton's story of the guy in the cemetery.
A private land owner may have a sob story that will make a MDer look like a low-life good for nothing. "TREASURE SEEKER STEALS PENNIES FROM WIDOW'S PROPERTY".

Corporate owners to me are of the ilk, "Just go do it; I don't want to know about it." I have to agree, I guess, that there just is no way to get on some land.
Joel in Winnepeg has a good suggestion and one we've all may have thought of ourselves in the past . Keep an eye on the dirt when the construction starts and follow it to where you may have a chance to MD it. Another way, show up with a hard hat on at the end of the day and tell the construction crew foreman that you're going to check some dirt out and you'll keep an eye on their equipment while you're doing it.

 

[John(Tx)]

If a corporation owns the land I will go in and hunt, if they want you to leave they will tell you to leave, just leave. But I have yet been told to leave. I am currently working some land purchased by HEB and no one has bothered any of us hunters, the cops just drive by and leave us alone.....If you ask, be prepared to be dissappointed........

 

[togamac]

I hear you John(Tx). It's like the story about the RVer who approached the Walmart manager and asked, "Can I park my RV in your parking lot all night?" "No" the manager said. "What about those five other RVs parked out there?" the RVer asked.

The manager replied, "They didn't ask."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I hear you John(Tx). It's like the story about the RVer who approached the Walmart manager and asked, "Can I park my RV in your parking lot all night?" "No" the manager said. "What about those five other RVs parked out there?" the RVer asked.

The manager replied, "They didn't ask."

Ha, good illustration. I heard the "long version" of that, and it "struck a chord" with me, since I own a parking lot sweeping company. As such, back in the days that we did shopping centers at night, you're right:: Often time an RV or two will park at the furthest reaches of some big nameless faceless shopping center or mall, and hunker down for the night. And when we're there at 2am, we have to go around them (and no doubt wake them up with our noise, etc... haha)

The expanded version of that story was that a retiring couple bought a motor-home, with the idea of travelling around in their golden years. They spoke to friends who likewise travelled in that way. The friend told them that they could save money on KOA type campground fees, by merely pulling into a shopping center (Kmart, etc...) at nights when they weren't necessarily going to need RV hookups.

So the happy couple took off on their first RV trip. The first night, as it was getting dark, they pulled off the freeway because they saw a Kmart sign. They pull into the parking lot, and .... sure enough ... just as their friends had told them: they saw another RV or two in the furthest reaches of the parking lot. Since the wheels were chalked, and awnings out, they deduced that those persons were getting ready to stay parked there over night.

Since it was still about 10 minutes till the 9 pm closing time of Kmart, the man went inside the Kmart. As he did, he saw a man standing near the door, with a "manager" badge on. He walked up to him and asked: "Can I park my RV here overnight?" The manager said "No, it's for customer parking only. No overnight parking". To which the RV'r pointed off into the distance at the RV or two already parked out there, and asked, ".... but what about them?". To which the guy shrugs his shoulders and says "they didn't ask".

 

[Ism]

I have asked in my area and gotten permission about 2/3rds the time. Those LLC's were farm property owners and rented out the fields for planting.
As long as I didn't hunt between planting and harvest, it was OK with them. Mind you, I would rather talk in person as face to face its harder to say no for many people.
As far as the big developers, it has been no. I ask because the first time I hunted on an unposted 150yr old homestead once and got walked off by the owner within 1/2 hour of hunting.
Seems somebody was watching the property for them. I was just a little embarressed.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

I was having a conversation with one of the Corporate Developers of a large wooded tract of land and he mentioned that they were concerned that someone would sue them due to the number of whitetail deer that were being displaced and wandering in the new roads that they had built. He was concerned about folks hitting the deer with their automobiles. As stupid as some folks on juries seem to be I thought that his concerns were legitimate.

I offered my services as a bow hunter to try to help them by reducing the deer population on properties that they had not yet done any work. His reply was I would love to allow that but can not. One of the deer might go die in someone's back yard and we would have even more trouble. I did not go trespass.

Most Corporations are very worried about litigation and what the public would think. Therefore most of them will deny any request for use of their properties.

 

[FrankMD]

Hey guys, great subject here.

I have a situation where way back in the early 1980's I did a bunch of gold prospecting on a creek in VA. Not landowner problems. I found a wide quartz vein that keep getting wider as it went into a hillside. I sent a sample out to a lab for analysis. It came back 1/4 ounce gold per ton and 3/4 ounce silver per ton. never did anything about it. Is that very rich today?

I have recently learned that a developer owns the land. I want to metal detect there. Would it be worthwhile contacting them and see if they are interested in knowing the exact location of the vein in exchange for written permission to detect there?

HH

Frank

 

[mudpuppy]

This is touchy and tricky depending upon the location...

I have been granted access to large corporate tracts in the past, mainly through their need for somebody to wipe out a population of beaver or other varmints....as far as detecting, I think it would be best approached through some other means as a contractor through a course of discovery with whoever is the parcel manager...he may NEED to have something done, even if its to verify and mark the corners, keep an eye on the place, cut trees/brush off the fences, or whatnot...once he gives you the keys to the gate and likes you, you go in and lock them behind you and have the place all to yourself! Heck, you may even get paid to walk around the borders once per month to check on the fence status, refresh the "no trespassing" signs, paint the gates, squirt oil in the locks, clear trees out of the roads, and whatnot like that...generally theres some sort of property manager that has authority over stuff like this...they generally will NOT grant permission to ANYONE to hunt or be on there for any hobby reason, so you have to go about it differently. Last big place I did the guy wrote me a check for 700 bucks just to get in there and wipe out all the beaver! I got 25 of them, bunch of raccoon and mink, couple of fox and coyote, and one big male otter and got to keep them too!
Mud

 

[GKMan]

Wow! Nice Mud