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Art, what's your take on this...

WRONG ANSWER
A story from Ft Knox broke into the headlines back in February about U.S. Army Drill Sergeants physically abusing Recruit Trainees. The story has now resurfaced with the conviction of U.S. Army Captain William Fulton.

It's a fine line that Drill Sergeants in the Army and their counterparts in other service branches walk. In one regard, we receive a different sort of recruit than we did 25 years ago, but keep in mind that they're still volunteers.

As an Interrogator, I rely upon a number of the same skills and understandings to ensure that I remain within the boundaries of the law and humane decency that my country rightfully expects. Like an Interrogator, a Drill Sergeant must develop a keen understanding of the background of his trainees. He or she must also consider the perception that a recruit has of what Drill sergeants will be like; this is the crucial power that that Drill Sergeant has when the recruit initially steps off the bus. It is at this point that the credibility and professionalism of the NCO is either reinforced or discarded.


Fulton draws six months, but remains in Army

By SPC. IAN BOUDREAU/Turret Staff Writer:

A Fort Knox captain accused of dereliction of duty, false swearing, and trainee maltreatment was sentenced Tuesday to six months confinement by a general court-martial.

Representing the United States in the case, prosecutors Capt. Steve Berlin and Capt. Joseph Krill alleged that Fulton had personally abused a Company E recruit. He was also accused of standing by and watching as another Soldier was thrown by the collar of his field jacket through a door on the second floor of the Company E barracks by a company drill sergeant.

One of the most contentious pieces of evidence was a videotape introduced by defense counsel Capt. Paul Streetman, Fulton's Army-appointed attorney. The video, shot with a hand-held personal camera, shows trainees arriving at Company E in a bus and what was referred to in testimony as a "shark attack" by the company's drill sergeants. In the shaky video, trainees are rushed into formation outside the company barracks as drill sergeants scream at them, sometimes with two or more NCOs only inches from a trainee's face. Witnesses said that the "shark attack" went on for about an hour before the trainees were moved inside the barracks. Fulton said the intense atmosphere was part of the program for basic training. "You create an environment of stress," he said. "It's to develop and build cohesion in the unit... There's actually structure and reasoning to what we do. "Sgt. 1st Class Paul Holley, a senior drill sergeant with Co. E, said that he left the "shark attack" before it was over. "In my eyes, it was not the way I would have conducted an initial pickup," he said. "The whole nature of the situation wasn't even right. There was too much chaos and no plan... I didn't want to be a part of it."

Harvey Perritt, a spokesman for the Army Training and Doctrine Command in Fort Monroe, Va., said there 120 allegations of abuse against Army drill sergeants in fiscal year 2004, and as a result 16 drill sergeants were relieved of duty.
So far in fiscal year 2005, there have been 42 complaints of abuse, and six sergeants have been relieved of duty, Perritt said.

Any Drill Sergeant or Drill Instructor will tell you that walking that fine line of terror with a kid who was just recently a civilian with a car and an X-box is every bit, a fine art. The ability to convey a sense of impending peril, without actually ever touching the recruit relies upon the craft and learned skills of this brethren of trainers.

The potential to properly motivate a trainee by helping them to find an inner strength and build self-esteem based upon respect of the NCO is diametrically opposed to the low mentality that seeks to gain compliance through torture and physical abuse.

According to Training and Doctrine Command Regulation 350-6, drill sergeants are only authorized to touch Soldiers in training to prevent a safety violation, in a medical emergency, or to correct a uniform deficiency. Trainees testified that "they were slammed into wall lockers, kicked, and struck during the indoor portion of the "shark attack," and that the abuse continued the next day."

CPT Joseph Krill and CPT Steve Berlin called several Company E trainees to the stand to testify. Berlin asked one Soldier how Fulton's behavior had affected his view of the Army. "Officers are, in my opinion, supposed to take responsibility for what happens under them," the Soldier said. "With what happened in Echo Company... I didn't see that happen.

"Fulton made an unsworn statement after the defense and prosecution had rested. "I love Soldiers," he said. "I love being a Soldier. There's no doubt about that. I've put my heart into everything I've done. "Perhaps my experiences in the Army have jaded my perspective on what abuse is. To me, the greatest abuse is to see untrained Soldiers coming home from far away countries in body bags. "But the ends did not justify the means," he went on. "I'd like to apologize to all my Soldiers for not being the leader they deserve."

There is some contention that everything did not go down exactly as the recruits testified. Upon viewing the videotape, some recanted and altered their testimony. There is the suggestion that after the incident(s) the recruits banded together as a sort of dysfunctional family of victims and their stewing over perceived abuse caused the incident to grow in the minds, corroborated by their peers. The bottom line is hard to find in a time when Drill Sergeants are spending too long on "The Trail" as they call the duty assignment.

Captain Fulton wanted to protect his Drill Sergeants, an act of misplaced loyalty perhaps, and he got caught.

At a time when enlistments are down, and the perception of the military is so crucial to our continued ability to recruit, this is still the wrong answer.
 
It's NOT a "shark attack". It's called a Shake Down and it's SUPPOSED to feel like all hell is breaking loose. It's confusing and intimidating to a new recruit. Notice I said "recruit" and NOT "soldier". These "Joes," as we called them, have an entirely different status of treatment than a regular soldier. Even an AIT soldier is not treated with the same "kid gloves". Even profanity is at an absolute minimum. You can only address a trainee as Private or Private So and So.

This is not to say that in the "heat" of instruction, I did not get directly in the face of any and all recruits, whether to give instruction or make a point to others through that individual. The brim of "round brown" could and often DID make contact with the forehead or bridge of a private's nose. More than one private probably had to wipe spittle of his face after such encounters as well.

When teaching hand to hand combat, bayonet training or anything else that might involve physical contact I always asked for a "volunteer". All 32 hands in my platoons always went up. I then usually picked one of the acting squad leaders, platoon guide or the biggest jughead I could find for my intitial "impact" demonstrations. If someone professed to have martial arts training, I'd pick them as well. Such "demos" went over very well, the "volunteer" enjoyed new respect from his peers and the point of needing to "pay close attention" to the rest of the instructions was well made.

In the light infantry, Airborne, Rangers and certain other "front line" troops, discipline was usually taken care of "in house." It was not unheard of for team leaders or even the natural leaders among peers to take a malcontent, malingerer, or other proven "dirtbag" into an Arm's Room and attempt a last ditch effort to "reform" his thinking prior to having to take "official" actions. But this was never done or even suggested by NCO's or officers that I ever knew.

Such actions to correct behavior would NEVER go over with REMFs, their mommies or their congressman. Such "rear echelon soldiers as found in support units still have a "recruit" mentality.

In short, we had a motto as Drills..."Joe's gonna do whatever Joe's gonna do!" This goes for throwing a grenade into a pit, with you and he in it, to banding together to tell a "story"...especially in the first week or so of training. At that point they haven't suffered and grown together as a unit. They're still acting as selfish, self-centered manipulative individuals.

I don't know if that answered you question. But it's what came out without thinking too much about it.
 
I think the Marine Corps is turning out great Marines without all the stuff we went through.

I joined in 1959, WE were subjected to "physical abuse and torture every day till we graduated.

Try doing the Manual of Arms with your foot locker, or holding your 9.5 pound M1 on the tip of your outstretched fingers.And not just until you got tired, but till your eyes bulged and your body quivered.If you drooped it, THEN the physical abuse and torture really started.A good punch to the solar plexus will get your attention every time.

My son went through boot camp in 84, he said he never saw a DI hit anyone. But that didn't stop the mental abuse.

I don't think you can talk to and try to persuade a teenager to became a solider. It is going to take some mental and physical pressure.
 
This subject could be talked, analyzed, scrutinized and argued for days by both the recruit and the drill instructors. When I took basic training in Fort Bragg in 1968, I witnessed some abuses that were definitely over the line. But for the most part, I think the DI's Or Drill Sergeants did a good job.

I know that the DI's go through psychological evaluation before being accepted into the DI instructor's school, but still, they miss a few! For example, my own DI, a Sgt. Dingle, was a black, 6'4", 220 lb DI with bloodshot wolf eyes. It was soon apparent his eyes were bloodshot because he got absolutely wasted every night, and was actually swaying in formation at the morning roll call. He was terminated in the 5th week of basic training by the company captain (who had fangs, by the way). We got a new DI that had been there in training, but had very little real experience. And I do believe this guy was a little sadistic. One of those kind of guys who smiled all the time... even when he's screaming at someone.

Anyway, there were many abuses, and much physical pain and occasionally abuse bordering on if not real torture. It's easier to gain control through fear, intimidation and physical abuse. It is a fine line that the DI has to walk, for he is viewed with respect instead of loathed with hatred. Especially so in the old days when there was no hope for the recruit if he tries to fight back or refuse to go along with the abuse. It was the BRIG or the psychological evaluation route if he did. But one thing's for sure, when the military's got you, the military's got you.

I was raised without a father. Upon being inducted into the Armed Forces with one of those letters that start out "Greetings, you are hereby ordered to report..." I remembered this piece of advice I read in the newspaper. It said "Get in the middle, and keep your mouth shut." I took that advice. That must be why I was elected Platoon Leader in both basic as well as AIT, and why I made Sergeant in 18 months.

Vernon
 
...during my Psych Eval I had some female Captain give me a battery of oral questions. After a few bland intitial queries she then asked me, "Have you ever had thoughts of killing someone?"

I just looked at her for a few moments as I sat their in my class A's with combat ribbons, airborne wings, SF patch, EIB and combat medic badge before replying, "Sure. It's what I'm paid to do."

I think that was the first time she'd looked up at me the whole time I'd been there.

:shrug:
 
I went thru Parris Island in 1993 and saw all this abuse. I was disciplined when I went in, due to a single mother who would take no sh## and ruled with a wooden switch(pine, willow or other) i listened and did what I was told, but saw that the chaos and harsh treatment involved, whooped guys into shape. Recruits may have feared the D.I.'s due to repercussions for screwing up. This fear tactic, turned to respect at the end of bootcamp. Other techniques may have worked better and been more humane, but would have taken too much time and turned out softer troops. i left boot camp in the best shape of my life and toward the end I felt the drill instuctors could do their best to break me, but I would not give in. It felt like I could take any abuse the world could throw at me. As far as hitting recruits, i only saw it a few times and that is when a recruit tried to fight a D.I. the recruits lost. The only problem I had was certain unauthorized "training" that happened if we lost on drill or rifle range. Scuzz brush to balkhead, squats with full packs, etc, My knees are majorly messed up.
 
hand on us, we were scared to death of those guys! I was appointed a squad leader and I made the mistake of telling the CC I was turning in my crow (insignia of authority) because I couldn't even do the things I was supposed to be teaching my squad. When he got through chewing me out, I couldn't get out of his office fast enough!! He never touched me nor did he even threaten to touch me, but I got the message loud and clear!! Some of the kids enlisting now have always had Mommy and Daddy getting them out of any situation they've gotten into and now they can't cope with the situation they face without Mommy and Daddy there!! And don't even get me started about lawyers and the idiotic cases they bring to court!! In this day and time some people are just looking for any excuse real or imagined to sue a person, company, etc.!!! DIs, CCs etc. have an extremely important and difficult job!! I salute them!!:usaflag::thumbup:
 
My boot was on Logan Heights in Fort Bliss and we were flat out abused verbally and physically. I could go into detail from food to brutal training but I won't since it would take much time. I dunno, maybe all the troops on LH were destined Nam. We were up before main base and going at it after they had retired for the day. No one was spared, I must say, they had no special treatment with any recruit on LH, the training was intense. We were hit, pushed, jerked around, in your face screaming, and pressed beyond endurance. Off the bus running with full duffel bags up and down the formation field until all the gear was strewn over the entire area. Everyone was puking before it ended. I thought my life was over, :lol: :lol: and I would die for sure in boot much less Nam. It didn't get any better the first 4 weeks of boot.

I believe it was a good thing to this very day, no time to think about anything, but what you were doing. They drove everyone beyond what was believed possible and we were one proud group of young men when it was over and done. All of us had the utmost respect by the end of Boot for our DI's and each other. I don't know when it went from all out hate to respect but it did. I believe to this day it prepared me for what was ahead, not just in Nam, but my entire life and I owe them due gratitude for pushing me where I wouldn't have gone otherwise.

I Salute the DI's for their enormous contribution of instilling an attitude that nothing is impossible if you truly have the desire and will to accomplish. As time has progressed, for obvious reasons, their assignment has become more difficult. It may sound odd but I feel fortunate it was experienced as it happened.
 
n/t
 
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