Are You Tightly Wrapped?

[berryman]

The assembly instructions that came with my new M6 say that I should loop the cable over the shaft 5 or more times. However, in the accompanying Jimmy Sierra CD, I noticed that one of the M6 machines being used in the video has the cable looped over the shaft only 3 times and very loosely at that. For you old hands out there, what are the advantages or disadvantages of too few (loose) or too many (tight) cable loops? I can see where loosely wrapped cables could get caught on nearby objects. But how about tightly wrapped cables? Can tightly wrapped cables lead to electrical impedance problems or cracking? What are your thoughts/recommendations?

 

[Bearharold]

Yes being to loose can get caught on brush and other objects , also some say it will interfere with the coil if the cable is flopping around near the coil area and cause false signals , but I have never noticed that on mine yet . But I don't keep mine to loose ether . You can't wrap it real tight or your coil can't move up or down if it needs to be tilted up or down . If it is to tight it will pull on your connections if your coil is moved up or down and might pull the connection a part or loose where it could start shorting out .I hope this explains some of what you wanted to know anyway .

Good Hunting
Harold

 

[matthias]

For me the wrapping of the coil cable is dependent on the length of the cable. I prefer short cables that I can easily and loosely wrap up the shaft. I have some coils with extra long cables and those I need to coil tightly around the shaft about half way up. I guess there may have been problems with detectors years ago wrapping (coiling) tight but not so much any more due to better shielding. In my limited experience I have not had any problems in relation to how I have wrapped my coil cable. I'd be interested to hear more on this subject myself. Good luck and HH. Matt

 

[dirt doctor]

n/t

 

[5900_XL-1]

It made a lot of difference with my first detector, a 5900 Whites. It came to me as a gift and the cable was very slack. I read that this might not be very good so I tightened it up, resonably, and the falses during swings nearly disappeared. I will always make an attempt to get snug coils. martin

 

[MarkCZ]

Nope!
Not wrapped tight here! (it puts to much stress on the cable and it leaves it coiled up like a phone cord)

I make one lose loop at the heel of the coil for the "Flex Loop" (starter loop) run the cable straight up the shaft, then close to the control housing I make a small "Hank" loop just before the connection to the control box.

Meet "Hank Style" on five different detectors I have.

1266X
Coinstrike
XLT
ID Edge
F2

Mark

 

[berryman]

Mark: That's a great technique! I think you may start a new trend with your Hank approach.

 

[MarkCZ]

Mark: That's a great technique! I think you may start a new trend with your Hank approach.

It isn't really my idea although I guess I did coin the phrase "Hank Style"
I got the idea from forum member Dave_J who is one of First Texas's designers. He stated that the metal detector companies keeps putting the coil wrapping up the shaft illustrations in the owners manual in spite of the electronic engineers telling them that that's a bad idea and not good for the cables a all.

I also had my Whites 5900 Di Pro-sl done that way.

What I would love to find is some nylon cable clips that could be attached to the shaft and then just clip the cable on the shaft. but so far I haven't found any that will attach to a round shaft.

Here is a picture of the coil cable on my Coinstrike when I unwrapped the cable to do the "Hank Style" that cable is a LONG one for hip mounting, man was that thing kinked up BAD!

The bottom picture is how the cable turned out on the same Coinstrike, notice all the velcro? that cable was so kinked up that it would just straighten out! I had some trouble getting it to do what I wanted, it was wrapped for so long that it will have to be re-trained.
Also, in the same picture you can see that I only unwrapped the cable down to the starter loop.

Mark

 

[Tom Slick]

I leave a small loop at the bottom to allow the coil angle to be adjusted, and then loosely wrap the coil around the rod. One velcro tie at the top and another near the coil.

 

[MarkCZ]

I leave a small loop at the bottom to allow the coil angle to be adjusted, and then loosely wrap the coil around the rod. One velcro tie at the top and another near the coil.

I've seen many people that wrap that first loop at the coil to the front (over the center of the coil) but I always felt better about wrapping it around the heel of the coil (off the rear of the coil) so that the metal in the cable wasn't over center while I was pinpointing.

Here is another picture of the "Hank Style Coil Wrap" on my XLT, notice the loop at the coil coming off to the heel instead of around the front and center of the coil.
Off the front or out the back will both work, I've seen it done both ways, but me and my OCD has reasoned it out and there is some sense to my madness LOL!

Mark

 

[Tom Slick]

MarkCZ,
I tried your reasoning but thought of this; When you have the loop over the center of the coil and the target is in the center everything aligns and is centered to the coil. If the loop goes to the backside of the rod, then when you pull the pinpoint triger, the detector trys to center on the coin but it's also being pulled off due to the cable so pinpointing will be rear biased. I've never noticed any difference in pinpointing based on how the cable is wound. On occasion when I inadvertantly change the angle of the coil, it's usually bent up not down. With the loop on top I don't stress the cable. If the cable is run below the rod, as in your photo, then bending the coil up, trys to pull the cable out of the coil. 35 years detecting and I haven't messed up a coil yet.

 

[MarkCZ]

MarkCZ,
I tried your reasoning but thought of this; When you have the loop over the center of the coil and the target is in the center everything aligns and is centered to the coil. If the loop goes to the backside of the rod, then when you pull the pinpoint triger, the detector trys to center on the coin but it's also being pulled off due to the cable so pinpointing will be rear biased. I've never noticed any difference in pinpointing based on how the cable is wound. On occasion when I inadvertantly change the angle of the coil, it's usually bent up not down. With the loop on top I don't stress the cable. If the cable is run below the rod, as in your photo, then bending the coil up, trys to pull the cable out of the coil. 35 years detecting and I haven't messed up a coil yet.

Well, you have some good points.
But, when I pinpoint I de-tune which reduces the size detection field coming off the coil and with the flex loop of the cable off the back it leaves the detection field WAY early while in the center it would more likely stay in the field of detection all the time (in theory anyway).

Also the loop off the back is made to flex or roll with the movement of the coil, yes the cable has to move with the coil but its best if the movement can be transferred over a few inches of cable than for the movement to be confined to one area or one narrow section of cable.

The pictures below (dust and all LOL) show full coil movement and the flex roll in the cable. The first loop just needs to be short enough to not move or bounce around while swinging the coil.
From the sounds of it you and I have been around awhile, I started detecting in 1981.

I also know that in this hobby many things are worked out by the user and to what best works for them.
I have bought detectors with bad coils, I've bought new coils that were bad out of the box! but I've never had a coil or cable just go bad! and some of my detectors are pretty old.

Mark

 

[matthias]

Three detectors- three different wrap jobs. Ive never noticed any problems. HH. Matt

 

[MarkCZ]

Six pictured, my old Teknetics 8500 hip mount not shown. (No found problems with these wraps)
It would seem that it really doesn't matter how the cable is wrapped it still works!
I've seen post where people had ask about right or left turns up the shaft!
Just don't tie it to tight and to close to the coil, if the coil moves it will bend the cable rather than flexing it.

Some people like me when we think about the coil cable we think of it 20 to 30 years down the road and it still working and it still having some resale value.
My 1266 is really getting some age on it, as my even older Tek 8500.
Well my XLT Rainbow is probably be getting pretty old (its new to me)

But if you want it simple, don't think of WAY down the road, then you can pretty much do anything with it you want!
I have seen people drill the shaft, shorten the cable, rewire the connector and run the cable up the inside the shaft. (and that wasn't a Minelabs either)

Everybody that really knows me says I'm to much of a perfectionist, even sometime that drives me nuts!

So, pick through the ideas and make something work suited to YOU! and I'm sure it will work JUST fine.

HH

Mark

 

[Gunrunner61]

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