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Anyone hunting in All Metal mode on their F5 ?
- Thread starter Cal_Cobra
- Start date
Brian,
I can't speak for the F5, but the F75 all metal mode is great. I only use it for beach or large relic-type sites that don't have high trash levels. If I'm hunting a field, I'm in all-metal. Makes the coil much hotter, so you are hearing peripheral targets that you would have otherwise walked past in discrimination mode. Reminds me of a divining rod. On a related note, I also use all-metal when beach hunting with my Minelab Excalibur. 2 months ago, I got a faint signal in all-metal, flipped my dial to discriminate to see if it was going to null, which tells me it's iron. No null, nothing, that means it's too deep for discrim to pick up. I go back into all-metal, hear the faint target again, dig, dig, dig, out pops a nice silver ring! All-metal is great if you don't have to listen to too many targets, otherwise, it may drive you nuts. - Jim
I can't speak for the F5, but the F75 all metal mode is great. I only use it for beach or large relic-type sites that don't have high trash levels. If I'm hunting a field, I'm in all-metal. Makes the coil much hotter, so you are hearing peripheral targets that you would have otherwise walked past in discrimination mode. Reminds me of a divining rod. On a related note, I also use all-metal when beach hunting with my Minelab Excalibur. 2 months ago, I got a faint signal in all-metal, flipped my dial to discriminate to see if it was going to null, which tells me it's iron. No null, nothing, that means it's too deep for discrim to pick up. I go back into all-metal, hear the faint target again, dig, dig, dig, out pops a nice silver ring! All-metal is great if you don't have to listen to too many targets, otherwise, it may drive you nuts. - Jim
ziphius said:
Hey Jim,
I played with it a little bit at a park that wasn't too trashy, and it was interesting - lots more information for sure, but I only tested it for like 10 minutes as I found myself glued to the TID screen. IF I could get some serious extra depth at someplace like GGP that's been pounded to death by the Explorer crowd, to get beneath where they've been in disc mode, it would be worth it.
I use my Minelab Sovereign for my beach hunter (poor mans Excalibur), and I've tried AM mode, but I was amazed how many more signals there were, it was so much more that I switched back to disc mode - LOL!
This summer I'll try AM mode again on my Sov at a swimming hole I did OK at last year, and see if I can use it to pull up the deepies. In the Clive James Clynick Sov/Excal book he's a big advocate of AM mode for water hunting with the Sov/Excal, then switching to disc to check the target (think he calls it reverse hunting). I'll probably need a better scoop if I do AM mode in the water
HH,
Brian
Brian,
I've been using the all metal mode on my F5 more often than not because of the 3 - 4 bar Fe graph in a hammered field that saw 2 days of Civil War cavalry action. It's SLOW going, lots of farm trash, lots of signals, even slower because of no tone ID, but in three trips I've recovered 15 dropped bullets, a few flat buttons, and a couple of coins. Depth 3 - 7 inches. I would often test targets with disc. mode as well, and on the deeper targets, it would not give a repeat signal, or no signal at all. AM mode is much deeper.
hh
- Gary
I've been using the all metal mode on my F5 more often than not because of the 3 - 4 bar Fe graph in a hammered field that saw 2 days of Civil War cavalry action. It's SLOW going, lots of farm trash, lots of signals, even slower because of no tone ID, but in three trips I've recovered 15 dropped bullets, a few flat buttons, and a couple of coins. Depth 3 - 7 inches. I would often test targets with disc. mode as well, and on the deeper targets, it would not give a repeat signal, or no signal at all. AM mode is much deeper.
hh
- Gary
Brian,
Yeah, try that "reverse hunting" mode with the Sovereign at the beach, it'll get you several extra pieces of jewelry for sure. If you want to apply the all-metal philosophy to GGP, you could reverse cherry-pick only the deepest signals. I thought about doing the same thing with an Infinium, which at least gives two different tones for high and low conductors. Tom In Salinas razzed me for even dreaming about doing it.
Yeah, try that "reverse hunting" mode with the Sovereign at the beach, it'll get you several extra pieces of jewelry for sure. If you want to apply the all-metal philosophy to GGP, you could reverse cherry-pick only the deepest signals. I thought about doing the same thing with an Infinium, which at least gives two different tones for high and low conductors. Tom In Salinas razzed me for even dreaming about doing it.
ziphius said:Brian,
Yeah, try that "reverse hunting" mode with the Sovereign at the beach, it'll get you several extra pieces of jewelry for sure. If you want to apply the all-metal philosophy to GGP, you could reverse cherry-pick only the deepest signals. I thought about doing the same thing with an Infinium, which at least gives two different tones for high and low conductors. Tom In Salinas razzed me for even dreaming about doing it.
Hey Jim
I remember Tom razzing you about trying that. Don't get me wrong, Tom is a sharp/experienced metal detectorist, but he's a bit of a kill joy when it comes to trying things. Some things will work for one person, and not another considering all the variables involved. I'll definitely try "reverse hunting" with the Sov this summer. It's a great beach machine, but toooo sloooow for turf hunting, although I have made some nice finds with it.
HH,
Brian
rlchntr said:
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the feedback, this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Were you indicating that because the Fe graph was at 3 - 4 bars, it was because of difficult soil, or too much iron ?
I have a couple of hunts planned this weekend, I'm looking forward to seeing if I can eek out a few goodies in AM mode. I'll be hunting with the F75 crowd
HH,
Brian
Brian,
Something to consider on deep targets in discrimination mode. DrJoePrime and I did a head to head comparison of the F4 and F75 on deep turf targets. While his F4 could pick up these targets in discrimination mode, they ALL were ID'ed as iron. You should be able to easily pick up coin-sized targets in ALL METAL mode that are 7-8 inches deep, especially since the F5 is a better machine. You might try experimenting back and forth between ALL METAL and DISCRIM on the same targets to see what happens. Also tweak your gain/sensitivity on flagged targets to see where the "I can no longer hear it" threshold is. You will learn a lot about your machine that way. You hunting with Axenolith and the crowd? - Jim
PS - Tom's nickname on the forum is KJ!
Something to consider on deep targets in discrimination mode. DrJoePrime and I did a head to head comparison of the F4 and F75 on deep turf targets. While his F4 could pick up these targets in discrimination mode, they ALL were ID'ed as iron. You should be able to easily pick up coin-sized targets in ALL METAL mode that are 7-8 inches deep, especially since the F5 is a better machine. You might try experimenting back and forth between ALL METAL and DISCRIM on the same targets to see what happens. Also tweak your gain/sensitivity on flagged targets to see where the "I can no longer hear it" threshold is. You will learn a lot about your machine that way. You hunting with Axenolith and the crowd? - Jim
PS - Tom's nickname on the forum is KJ!
Ahhh the F4, another good machine for the $$ IMHO. It has motion AM mode, AND static AM mode (doesn't seem like many machines have that) and deadly accurate TID up to around 6" deep. I don't recall if the F4 TID works in AM, I seem to recall no, but it's been a long while since I've played with the F4. That's an interesting test you and did DrJoePrime did (if anyone knows that machine inside and out it would be him), and now that you mention it, it makes me curious as I was hunting a park that dates back the 1800's last weekend with the F5 and getting a fair amount of iron grunts in disc mode, perhaps their really NOT iron. Crazy as it sounds, I'm almost getting excited to hunt in AM mode on the F5 to see what I'm missing.
I've never hunted with Axenolith and friends, but I believe he showed up at our last metal detector club meeting.
Brian
as I was hunting a park that dates back the 1800's last weekend with the F5 and getting a fair amount of iron grunts in disc mode, perhaps their really NOT iron. Crazy as it sounds, I'm almost getting excited to hunt in AM mode on the F5 to see what I'm missing. I've never hunted with Axenolith and friends, but I believe he showed up at our last metal detector club meeting.
Brian
autopilot42
Well-known member
I have an old house site I am hunting an usually use disc mode do to all the trash. When I hunt in the woods farther away, I go to all-metal. It seems you can get about 15 to 20% more depth when you are looking for lead.
Hunting VA
Take care Bob
Hunting VA
Take care Bob
Brian - It does seem like there is more depth there in all metal to me.
I've been trying to use all metal for a short period of time at the beginning of my hunts.
I have to admit after a short period of time it gets too intense for me, although I'm getting more used to it.
As you said above, you wind up with your eyes glued to the ID screen.
Keep us posted on how you do in AM.
I've been trying to use all metal for a short period of time at the beginning of my hunts.
I have to admit after a short period of time it gets too intense for me, although I'm getting more used to it.
As you said above, you wind up with your eyes glued to the ID screen.
Keep us posted on how you do in AM.
Brian,
I was out today at my local soccer field running in AM mode for the first 1/2 hr. I was able to get a hit on something faint, did not dig it because I was more concerned getting to work on this whole gain/treshold thing. When I pinpointed the area It was reading 8", this is the deepest detected item yet. When I switched over to disc mode, I was not able to detect it, even after trying different gain/threshold settings. When running here is disc mode, with phase anywhere from 64-68 with FeO at 1 bar I was able to set my gain at 60 and treshold at +1. I had a good hit which was reading 5c, I then tried different threshold settings to see what would happen. threshold at -9 to +9 seemed to make no difference?. Ended up pulling out a newer pull tab.
HH
Kos
I was out today at my local soccer field running in AM mode for the first 1/2 hr. I was able to get a hit on something faint, did not dig it because I was more concerned getting to work on this whole gain/treshold thing. When I pinpointed the area It was reading 8", this is the deepest detected item yet. When I switched over to disc mode, I was not able to detect it, even after trying different gain/threshold settings. When running here is disc mode, with phase anywhere from 64-68 with FeO at 1 bar I was able to set my gain at 60 and treshold at +1. I had a good hit which was reading 5c, I then tried different threshold settings to see what would happen. threshold at -9 to +9 seemed to make no difference?. Ended up pulling out a newer pull tab.
HH
Kos
rlchntr said:
Yeah that would make sense. Another forum member posted that when he gets a 50C hit (which more often then not is a deep piece of rusty iron), to pump the coil over the target and you see the meter go up if trash, and down if a coin. Also seems to work to some extent on pull-tabs.
HH,
Brian
Hi Kos,
I suspect if you could run your gain and threshold higher you would be able to get 8" + in disc mode in mild soil. Last summer I pulled a small gold ring out of the wet sand (fresh water lake) with my F5, it was a good 7" deep, and hit hard (nickel/pull-tab range), but I've consistently been able to run this F5 with 90 gain and 9 threshold (wet sand might be prone to better depth then turf).
Nickels and pull-tabs seem to be interchangeable on the F5. I've had many "pull-tab" hits that turned out to be nickels, and vice versa. I still dig them in case it might be a piece of gold jewelery. I played around with the threshold, trying to see if I ran it in the negative zone if I could squelch out small bits of foil, and it didn't seem to make any difference, but might be worth a revisit (although I believe you will also loose depth). When bench testing the threshold on coins, the only difference I see, is that I get more depth when the threshold is raised. it also changed the audio characteristics at a point (depends on the target) that makes the audio break up. The way I see it (and I could be wrong) ideally you want to be able to run max (or as close to it as possible) gain and threshold.
Sounds like AM really is getting deeper, come Saturday I hope to find some F5 deepies
HH,
Brian
I suspect if you could run your gain and threshold higher you would be able to get 8" + in disc mode in mild soil. Last summer I pulled a small gold ring out of the wet sand (fresh water lake) with my F5, it was a good 7" deep, and hit hard (nickel/pull-tab range), but I've consistently been able to run this F5 with 90 gain and 9 threshold (wet sand might be prone to better depth then turf).
Nickels and pull-tabs seem to be interchangeable on the F5. I've had many "pull-tab" hits that turned out to be nickels, and vice versa. I still dig them in case it might be a piece of gold jewelery. I played around with the threshold, trying to see if I ran it in the negative zone if I could squelch out small bits of foil, and it didn't seem to make any difference, but might be worth a revisit (although I believe you will also loose depth). When bench testing the threshold on coins, the only difference I see, is that I get more depth when the threshold is raised. it also changed the audio characteristics at a point (depends on the target) that makes the audio break up. The way I see it (and I could be wrong) ideally you want to be able to run max (or as close to it as possible) gain and threshold.
Sounds like AM really is getting deeper, come Saturday I hope to find some F5 deepies
HH,
Brian
The F4 does not tid in AM. Wish it did. It is my main complaint on the F4 along with even with the small coil you can not get close to playground equiptment. Still have to use the Ace for that as even with the stock coil you can get closer. It seems the small coil on the F4 is too hot on the edges. I just keep the DD on the F4 all the time now even if it cannot correctly id a bottlecap. I am the bottlecap king lol.
blacktoe
blacktoe